Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

Jamis Redknapp pointed out after the match that the first goal was the fault of JAR not zonal marking. You can clearly see Stevie telling him to cover Gallas but as soon as the corner is hit he he runs to the ball leaving Gallas clear.

Concentration and doing what you are told is the way to defend whether your system is zonal or man to man.

Indeed Riise went AWOL and was culpable for the goal. My own feeling is however that Hyypia was the main culprit for leaving his position at the front of the six yard box.
Part of the the theory of zonal systems is that it enables you to put your best header in a position where the ball is most likely to arrive. You avoid the dilemma which Terry was faced with in the first half yesterday when Crouch kept taking him to areas where the ball was unlikely to reach, so eliminating his influence as Chelsea's best defender. Hyppia's position at the front of the six-yard box is the reason that Ferdinand had to score with a fantastic header from 15 yards out, and that Chelsea played all their corners out towards the edge of the box yesterday.
What he musn't do though is follow the flight of the ball to an area which is outside his zone, or at least if he does he absolutely must make the header. If he stands still yesterday he clears Carvallo's flick on with his boot and there is no danger. I really do feel that Liverpool discussed the Ferdinand goal at length and the fact that nobody really attacked the ball or blocked off the run. Unfortunately, Sami who definately wasn't to blame for that one took it upon himself to take control yesterday and didn't get there. That's what caused the goal IMHO.


As a footnote it's quite amazing when listening to SKY's expert pundit Andy Gray that he doesn't actually understand the system he is criticizing. When Ferdidnand scored for Manure, he said that "that's the problem with zones. It's allvery well but when the ball is played out towards the edge of the box, your best headers who are lined up on the edge of the six-yard box can't get there." It's just a thought, but the very fact the ball is aimed out towards the edge of the box means that the zonal system has worked to an extent. Call me bold, but I would suggest that if the only headers we are going to concede from set-pieces are going to be from 15 yards out, then we won't concede many.

[ynwa]

the more liverpool play with zonal marking the more liverpool get use to playing

[115-1073096938]

I think the best thing for members of the forum who don't uderstand the intricacies of zonal marking, man to man marking or a combo of the two is to simply look at the stats.
If you do you will notice that for a team in our position in the league, we don't score anywhere near enough goals. Therefore it would be reasonable to come on the forum and suggest different ways in which you think we could improve in this area.
If you check the defensive stats, you will notice that we have arguably the best defence in the league and if not, certainly the second best. You will notice that in 6 Champions league games we conceded 1 goal in total. You will also be aware that we recently set a new club record for the highest number of consecutive clean sheets. We defended a couple of corners and free-kicks in those games, just one or two. If you watch goals on Sunday you will notice that teams who employ a man-marking system occasionally concede goals aswell. If you watched the game today you will have noticed that Chelsea defend man-for-man. You will also have seen Carra miss a free-header five yards out. Just because Andy Gray can't think of anything else to say when we concede a goal from a dead-ball situation other than "It's because of zonal marking", it doesn't mean we should jump on the bandwagon.
We have a good defence and a brilliant coach, chill-out. Rafa didn't invent zonal marking, nor is football the only game in which it is employed. Once FIFA take the bull by the horns and stop defenders wrestling people to the ground in the name of "man-marking" by instructing referees to award a penalty kick, everybody will defend this way.

Mick surely you must know its all down to zonal marking we're rubbish at the back...

Good to see that it didnt escape you that the difference between us was Crespo.

Crouch can play 400,000 games for us, and you will never see him finish like Crespo did for the 2nd goal. He is not even capable of dreaming about finishing the way Crespo did for the 3rd ruled offside.

And Crespo isn't capable of holding the ball up, offering any sort of pressence upfront or even linking up with other players around him.

He's a great goalscorer and a top class finisher and has intelligent movement thats about it.

[maximus]

And Crespo isn't capable of holding the ball up, offering any sort of pressence upfront or even linking up with other players around him.

He's a great goalscorer and a top class finisher and has intelligent movement thats about it.

Don't you just hate great goalscorers and players with intelligent movement??  he would be pretty useless in our team, give me Cisse who is a sh.it goalscorer and has no intelligence whatsoever 

[115-1073096938]

Tel seemed to be making the point that Crouch was a poor player because he doesn't score enough goals, so i dared to suggest that to contribute to a team isn't all about scoring goals.

I was pointing out that both players are limited in terms of ability and both have strong and weak points.

[A.B.]

villa got a point with chelshit.....and we got nothing this season and i hope we can take revenge in cl if we draw them again. 1 thing i notice..chelshite will playing on top gear when they meet us or scum and gooners. we can see from their faces how much they want to win or don want to lose....when chelshite play a lesser team, their attitude will change...they are more relax and thats why villa or neverton can steal a point from them...not because zonal marking..

Theres a difference when Chelsea plays against Villa and us. They step up like every other team in a big game, the two can't be compared.

[66-1137139704]

I think the best thing for members of the forum who don't uderstand the intricacies of zonal marking, man to man marking or a combo of the two is to simply look at the stats.
If you do you will notice that for a team in our position in the league, we don't score anywhere near enough goals. Therefore it would be reasonable to come on the forum and suggest different ways in which you think we could improve in this area.
If you check the defensive stats, you will notice that we have arguably the best defence in the league and if not, certainly the second best. You will notice that in 6 Champions league games we conceded 1 goal in total. You will also be aware that we recently set a new club record for the highest number of consecutive clean sheets. We defended a couple of corners and free-kicks in those games, just one or two. If you watch goals on Sunday you will notice that teams who employ a man-marking system occasionally concede goals aswell. If you watched the game today you will have noticed that Chelsea defend man-for-man. You will also have seen Carra miss a free-header five yards out. Just because Andy Gray can't think of anything else to say when we concede a goal from a dead-ball situation other than "It's because of zonal marking", it doesn't mean we should jump on the bandwagon.
We have a good defence and a brilliant coach, chill-out. Rafa didn't invent zonal marking, nor is football the only game in which it is employed. Once FIFA take the bull by the horns and stop defenders wrestling people to the ground in the name of "man-marking" by instructing referees to award a penalty kick, everybody will defend this way.

Mick surely you must know its all down to zonal marking we're rubbish at the back...

I wonder how you got your three stripes General stu

[tel]

Tel seemed to be making the point that Crouch was a poor player because he doesn't score enough goals, so i dared to suggest that to contribute to a team isn't all about scoring goals.

I was pointing out that both players are limited in terms of ability and both have strong and weak points.

surely you'd rather have Crespo's finishing ability than Crouchy's heading ability

[115-1073096938]

Tel seemed to be making the point that Crouch was a poor player because he doesn't score enough goals, so i dared to suggest that to contribute to a team isn't all about scoring goals.

I was pointing out that both players are limited in terms of ability and both have strong and weak points.

surely you'd rather have Crespo's finishing ability than Crouchy's heading ability

Who said anything about Crouchies rather poor ability to head a ball?

Crespo would work well with Crouch, Crouch holds the ball up, links up with others and sets chances up for players around him.

[66-1137139704]

We keep using a zonal marking system which clearly does not work. We were second best in our box. Birmingham, man u and bolton all goals scored from crosses and set pieces. Will rafa change it or will we alwatys look dodgy in the air on defence

I do not see the need to drop a system that has consistently worked well for some time now just because we have conceded a couple of goals in the last few days.

But it have been nice if you given examples of how the defences of the other big teams in europe work and given an in depth comparison with ours.
Coz i also believe there is always room for improvement

[flipmode]

We will learn from our mistakes

[tel]

Tel seemed to be making the point that Crouch was a poor player because he doesn't score enough goals, so i dared to suggest that to contribute to a team isn't all about scoring goals.

I was pointing out that both players are limited in terms of ability and both have strong and weak points.

surely you'd rather have Crespo's finishing ability than Crouchy's heading ability

Who said anything about Crouchies rather poor ability to head a ball?

Crespo would work well with Crouch, Crouch holds the ball up, links up with others and sets chances up for players around him.

So did Heskey.........

[A.B.]

Heskey had the tendency to fall flat on his rearend in front of goal.

[Effes]

Tel seemed to be making the point that Crouch was a poor player because he doesn't score enough goals, so i dared to suggest that to contribute to a team isn't all about scoring goals.

I was pointing out that both players are limited in terms of ability and both have strong and weak points.

surely you'd rather have Crespo's finishing ability than Crouchy's heading ability

Who said anything about Crouchies rather poor ability to head a ball?

Crespo would work well with Crouch, Crouch holds the ball up, links up with others and sets chances up for players around him.

So did Heskey.........

Heskey's first touch was pizz poor, thus affecting his ability to hold up the ball.

[tel]

Tel seemed to be making the point that Crouch was a poor player because he doesn't score enough goals, so i dared to suggest that to contribute to a team isn't all about scoring goals.

I was pointing out that both players are limited in terms of ability and both have strong and weak points.

surely you'd rather have Crespo's finishing ability than Crouchy's heading ability

Who said anything about Crouchies rather poor ability to head a ball?

Crespo would work well with Crouch, Crouch holds the ball up, links up with others and sets chances up for players around him.

So did Heskey.........

Heskey's first touch was pizz poor, thus affecting his ability to hold up the ball.

Couch's is not much better

Heskey was there to feed Owen, and judging by Michael's great goal scoring record for us, did his job.

When Owen was injured, the goals dried up because heskey cant be relied on to step up.

A bit like the position we're in now. We cant rely on Crouch to score goals