Liverpool FC Forum

[GERRYOBD]

                                     KIRKLAND

FINNAN               HENCHOZ            HYPIA       CARRAGHER

KEWELL              GERRARD            HAMMAN     RIISE   

                         BAROS              OWEN         
   
If this eleven were playing to their full ability, then the 4-4-2 would be ideal - hopefully Owen and Gerrard won't leave, and Baros is definitly more of a threat than Heskey - at least he scares defenders. Kewell should be used to supply the ammo and I know I have backed Riise at left back previously, but I take on aboard the fact that he probaly is better going forward - Carragher hasn't let Liverpool down and always gives 100%. I'll probaly get slaughtered by the " true Reds " for my selection who have been to every gound in the country this season but I think the above if managed well and injury free would definitly cause plenty of trouble for the likes of Chelsea, United and Arsenal: and it sticks to the formation that has always generated Liverpool success.

[JBG]

In reply to Stu:

1. I don't think my squad would be too small. I think my post allows for roughly 4 or 5 players less than our current squad, which is large. There's no point in having rubbish simply for the sake of it. I have cleared the decks a bit to allow the club a chance to invest in new players.

2. Getting Gallas is not a "pipedream". He almost joined Barcelona in the summer, a club thats deep in debt, has a (relatively) poor side, a crumbling stadium and are miles away from the Champions League. I think you are being defeatest if you say Gallas is out of our league. Chelsea have more money than us (and how long is that going to last?), but we are still the greater club. Its not like I suggested signing Nesta: Gallas has a clause in his contract (allegedly) which states that if a club bids 7.5million for him (within our budget) and if Boumsong joins Rangers then we can sign Gallas.

3. We have to give the likes of Welsh a chance. I didn't say we should put him in the team straight away but I would like to see him get an occasional run out.

4. Stu: I genuinely doubt your judgement of players. Troare and Smicer have improved slightly this season but they are still miles off the required standard.

5. Stu, you always boast about the amount of games you go to. Well, even if you went to every Liverpool game since 1892, even you would only have seen Vignal play a couple of times in the flesh. How could you possibly rate a player you have only seen a few times? I myself say Vignal play in two live games, at home to Borussia Dortmund in 2001/02 and against Grimsby that same year. He looked very nervous in those games although he did show the occasional flash (and broke his foot against Grimbsy). He had an ok season at Bastia last season but couldn't get into Rennes side this year.

6. Stu, the more you call Big Al "kid" the more I'm convinced you're about 14 years old!

7. Henchoz played superbly against Newcastle but in my opinion if we are to win the league we need to play further up the pitch which means we need a faster centre half.

[big al]

Stu,

1 Where did you get your qualification?
2 What level is it?
3 Who was your Assessor?
4 Which F.A was it gained with?

I'm very interested being just a wee boy from Belfast and all that.  I don't have a lot of friends within football?

Also if you'd stop for a minute and read my posts you'd know my palying days are over I ruptured my cruciate in the days when a cruciate ligament had'nt been invented.  If your interested in my sad tale I will tell you it some time.

[big al]

Guys please keep this post up the board until stu gets his letter back from the fa telling him what courses they run!

[115-1073096938]

Stu,

1 Where did you get your qualification?
2 What level is it?
3 Who was your Assessor?
4 Which F.A was it gained with?

I'm very interested being just a wee boy from Belfast and all that.  I don't have a lot of friends within football?

Also if you'd stop for a minute and read my posts you'd know my palying days are over I ruptured my cruciate in the days when a cruciate ligament had'nt been invented.  If your interested in my sad tale I will tell you it some time.

1. Walton park sports centre in walton Liverpool level 1. level 2 at hope university in childwall Liverpool. first one took one month second took 7 weeks.

2. Level 2. The FA coaching badge. Doing my uefa "b" either this year later on or early next year depending on experience and advice of Tony.

3. Assessor for both is Tony J. Dalimore.

4. Liverpool county FA. If i do the uefa it will be the national FA i do it with.

And Al, i probably haven't been here long enough to see these posts about your "playing days". The offer was genuine though and wasn't meant in a malicious way, the fact is when someone doubts my football ability or knowledge i just do the easy thing and show them.

[115-1073096938]

JBG...

1. I feel your squad is to small. Simple as that. I think you aren't taking extreme injuries into account. For me personally you NEED 2 goalkeepers, 4 full backs, 4 centre backs, 4 wingers, 4 central midfielders and 4 strikers. Some players also have to be versitile. Also these players must also have experience or sheer class.... something Whitbread, Otsemobor, Welsh, La Tallec etc don't have. The prospects such as these should be extra's in the squad.

2. If Gallas signs for Liverpool i will streak through the town centre and through my work. I expect you to hold me to that. Its unrealistic imo. However i would love it if i was wrong. Especially as i love streaking.

3. Totally agree... but only if they are good enough. Welsh appears to be.... but come on man.... not against arsenal when you need to win. He needs to be introduced properly. The job Moyes is doing with Rooney is fantastic. Houllier got it right with Owen and Stevey, he'll get it right with the new young players aswell.

4. Doubt it all you want but i feel its accurate. Smicer is a decent player as he's proven at international level and as a number of his performances have shown this season. I'm not saying these are first choice players, for me both would probably improve sides like Fulham, Blackburn, Everton etc, but for me they are good enough as 4th or 3rd choice players. The are currently better than Welsh, Le Tallec and Otsemobor so untill the kids prove they are better then these players are useful, even if its only backup.

5. I've seen Vignal live about 20 odd times both in the reserves and first team. He has class. End of. He needs to work on his fitness and ability to link with other players in a unit then he'll be a superb player. He's definately got tenacity, technique and good defensive attributes aswell as being a good crosser of the ball.

6. I'm 20 kid

7. Imo opinion if we are to win the league (which we could do with the current players) we'd need to play to our strengths. However with this new style i agree we need a pacey centre half, tell me where i've not backed this statement???

Until that time we've got to play our best players. Henchoz is one of them, Biscan isn't. End of.

[Owzat]

Signing Gallas is not completely unrealistic. Let's look at facts : -

1) Chelsea have a sugar daddy called Roman Abrahamovic who is willing to spend millions on players

2) One has to assume Abrahamovic wants Chelsea to win trophies, probably the Premiership and/or Champions League

3) If Chelsea don't win a trophy, will Abrahamovic shrug his shoulders and leave? Probably not. He will almost certainly buy more players and inevitably more of the older players will go before the newer players.

4) If more top international defenders go to Stamford Bridge then Gallas may no longer be as crucial to Chelsea as he is now

In a nutshell - Chelsea may not sell Gallas now, but who knows who is going to be a Chelsea player come next season and how available he will be then

[JBG]

In reply to Stu:

1. I still don't think signing Gallas is unrealistic. He's not Nesta. He's not Cannavaro. He will fall down the pecking order at Stamford Bridge in the summer when they sign someone like Ayala or Lucio.

2. There's a massive difference between the reserves and the Premiership.....I cannot believe you are making the arguement! Mellor was a goal machine in the reserves, Biscan looked like Nesta in the second string last season. I'm not writing Vignal off (read my first post) its just that I won't rate him fully until I have seen him play more but his record is not hectic lately.

3. I didn't advocate playing Welsh Otesemmbor etc on a weekly basis. You are deliberately misreading my posts. My point is that we are better off playing Welsh instead of Biscan and Diao, and he should be given more chances than he is currently getting, which is none.

4. Smicer has an excellent scoring record for the Czech Republic but he's hardly in Nedved's class. Smicer has played reasonably well on occasion this year but prior to that he had 4 barren seasons and he doesn't cut musturd with me. But then you agree with me by saying that he is no better than a squad player....which leads me to conclude that you are merely arguing for the sake of it.

5. At this stage seeing that Smicer has had 4 and a half years at the Pool and has largely blown it, I think its about time that Le Tallec is choosen ahead of him.

6. As for the size of my squad Stu I have advocated selling about 6 or 7 squad players and bringing in about 3 class acts, thus leaving a deficit of a couple of players less than the current squad. I would sooner see young players filling the squad than rubbish like Biscan.

7. I hate to be ageist but if you are serious about your age Stu (20) then I will use your own arguement of people not going to every home game (and thus in your opinion unkowledgable) against you. Many people here have been going to Liverpool games since the 1970s, some, like Old Red Eyes, since even before that. The reason we criticise Houllier so much is that we have extremely high standards.

[greenred]

Stu is 20?I thought he was younger.

[115-1073096938]

1. Gallas isn't Nesta or Cannavaro... whatever gave you that idea? 

The two above are the worlds best. Gallas is probably imo in the top 10. Lucio is hugely overated as is Ayala. I'd be unbelievable suprised if Chelsea look to strengthen the strongest area of there team.

2. Firstly, i've said before a good player stands out like a sore thumb. Vignal did in the reserves. He didn't look out of place in the first 11 either. He's a potentially excellent player. Like i said i've seen all his first team games, thats more than 10 and have seen him in the reserves. Thats enough to make a judgement. Also your point on Biscan? you must be joking... he was very average at best for reserves, on Mellor... yes he scored goals, he'd score goals in the premier league with enough experience. He'll be a good player, either first division or lower premiership later in his career.

3. JBG, Chill your beans lad. Listen i'm not sayin Welsh shouldn't get his chance, but he should be 4th choice at most. Yes agree with him being ahead of Diao etc and yes there are times i'd start with him on the bench above players that are above him in the pecking order to give him experience and there would also be matches i'd throw him in at the deep end aswell but i wouldn't expect to much. You having him as Gerrards "deputy" <<< Quote btw... is imo Madness.

4. Smicer has talent which has been shown 60% of the time so he is therefore a useful player. A squad player. He's not useless although sometimes he appears to be. It would certainly be a mistake to offload him.

5. Le Tallec isn't the finished article and isn't a wide player. Smicer can play wide midfield on either side. He's valuable backup. When the team is at full strength i'd go with Le Tallec in some games, but when it isn't i'd thrown Smicer in there. I can't see why you want to sell good players... theres no logic there.

6. Yeah selling squad players is all well and good but they MUST be replaced. For me this squad i would sell Heskey, Diao and Biscan. I'd look to replace Diouf with a better player and i'd add Malbranque, Cisse and a centre half. Thats how you maintain a squad. It doesn't need a clear out, it needs class added to it. Thats all.

7. Well maybe its time your standards become more realistic then. Theres an article in the official mag i read and liked. I'm gonna copy it onto here.

[JBG]

Stu......I don't know how to respond to your post as you are arguing for the sake of arguing and not making any sense whatsoever.

You contradict yourself by on the one hand raving on about Vignal and then on the other hand dismissing my suggestion that John Welsh gets pushed towards the first team. Why is your agruement in favour of Vignal not valid for Welsh and vice versa?

You dismissing my suggestion that Welsh get occasionally picked in the first team as back up for Gerrard when he is injured as "madness": please explain yourself. Young players deserve a chance in the first team: otherwise we would never have seen Owen, Gerrard, Fowler, Carragher etc. I'm not saying that Welsh be picked ahead of Hamman week in and week out, but in case you haven't noticed our results over the past 18 months haven't been hectic and maybe a few of the younger English chaps deserve a crack.

I will not lower my standards. I am a realist and won't complain about why we cannot spend 30million quid on players but at the same time my ambition is that we win the Championship again soon. We have won 18 Championships in our history and there is absolutely no reason why with proper organisation and leadership our club can start winning again.

As for the Gallas issue you obviously haven't been following the Chelsea soap opera lately: Ranieri has stated to the press on a number of occasions that he is looking for another centre half of the highest quality. He said John Terry is his number one defender and any new arrival would mean that Gallas would have to sit on the side lines. Again you misread my posts: my point is that while Gallas is very good he is hardly of Nesta's standards and in my opinion is not a terribly unrealistic signature for Liverpool. 

Finally Stu, you can argue until the cows come home about Smicer but my view (and I reckon most people will agree) is that he's been here 4 and a half years and has done little in that time. He's had his chance and its time others like Le Tallec and Cheyrou were given the nod ahead of him.

[Scottbot]

Fully agree on Smicer. His occasionally brilliant performances only highlight how inconspicuous his play can be. He is technically very good but lacks pace, strength and commitment. I'm sure we could find a better squad player out there somewhere.
As for Vignal, I have only seen him play a few times and i must admit he did look like a player with some potential. certainly a better better bet for Full-back than the clumsy Traore. I can only imagine that Houllier (fine judge of talent that he is!) does not have such a great opinion of Vignal hence farming him out on loan to all and sundry.

[catenacio]

Wooooooah big men - is this an opportunity to share and learn or a slanging match?  am nervous of making this post for fear of being abused !!!!  Grow up.

One quick point to make to Has - i agree that a pacey centre back allows a team to play a high line, but disagree on the purpose.

It is not to make it easier to break the opposition down as u suggest, but to make it harder for them to score, as there is less space for them to play in front of you.[I]

[The Manhattan Project]

Chelsea have a sugar daddy called Roman Abramovich who is willing to spend millions on players


We need a sugar daddy at Liverpool F.C. I wonder if Bill Gates would be interested in buying a Premiership club?

   

[115-1073096938]

Fully agree on Smicer. His occasionally brilliant performances only highlight how inconspicuous his play can be. He is technically very good but lacks pace, strength and commitment. I'm sure we could find a better squad player out there somewhere.
As for Vignal, I have only seen him play a few times and i must admit he did look like a player with some potential. certainly a better better bet for Full-back than the clumsy Traore. I can only imagine that Houllier (fine judge of talent that he is!) does not have such a great opinion of Vignal hence farming him out on loan to all and sundry.

Until you find a better player than Smicer though you keep him as a squad member. If Liverpool went and sold Traore, Vignal, Smicer and Heskey without replacing them it would severely weaken the squad.

Maybe the reason Houllier keeps loaning Vignal out is because he wants him to improve fitness and experience for his return to anfield.

One quick point to make to Has - i agree that a pacey centre back allows a team to play a high line, but disagree on the purpose.

It is not to make it easier to break the opposition down as u suggest, but to make it harder for them to score, as there is less space for them to play in front of you.

Its both.

High defensive lines are used with an offside trap usually and opposing players are pressed so they don't have time to think about there pass and are usually rushed into passing to a player who is in an offside position... which breaks up the play.

Also the higher your line the higher up the pitch you can press the ball. The downside is playing against players like Henry and Owen. All it takes is one sprint onto a ball over the top then they have a half to run into (see the Owen cup final )

Also with a high line your midfield in theory should get more chances to score goals.

There are also alot of negatives though. Its harder to organise the shape. It requires greater levels of athletisism and it doesn't allow you team to play through balls as there is not enough space in behind an opponents defence when u play like this.

Michael Owen, Florent Sinama-Pongolle and Milan Baros are all better at scoring from through ball situations. Basically they all have the same speciallity.