Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

Maybe we could "do a Chelsea " and shoehorn all four into the team in a diamond pattern:-

                         Alonso
            Masherano        Sissoko
                        Gerrard
                   Torres    Kuyt

and play without width or wingers. It didn't work for Chelsea and most probably wouldn't work for us, but at least we would all have our own superstar midfielder in the team

[woof woof !]

I like Alonso but have never really felt that when he not playing we miss him. I think there's more than enough quality in our midfield to make up for Alonso's absence.

I disagree with Sabre when he says  "His passing is decent ok",  Alonso is technically one of the best passes of the ball in the premiership, although I also have to admit that he hasn't been showing as much of that ability of late. That may well be down to another point Sabre has made with which I do agree  "Alonso is slow, it actually takes one forward pressing him a little and he's already uncomfortable"  Teams have indeed learnt that stopping Alonso from delivering the passes he's capable of removes a great threat from Liverpools armoury. Lately i've noticed how teams are very quick to close down Alonso and he looks very uncomfortable with it,I've lost count of the number of times he's been caught dwelling on the ball, sometimes he seems completely unaware that a man is on him.

To his credit although his passing game may have suffered Alonso has shown that he can be a very tough tackler and that his game is not one dimensional

A great player who on his day can be a match winner but given the competition we have for those midfield places, certainly needs to up his game if he wants to be an automatic choice.

[66-1112520797]

I like Alonso but have never really felt that when he not playing we miss him. I think there's more than enough quality in our midfield to make up for Alonso's absence.

I disagree with Sabre when he says  "His passing is decent ok",  Alonso is technically one of the best passes of the ball in the premiership, although I also have to admit that he hasn't been showing as much of that ability of late. That may well be down to another point Sabre has made with which I do agree  "Alonso is slow, it actually takes one forward pressing him a little and he's already uncomfortable"  Teams have indeed learnt that stopping Alonso from delivering the passes he's capable of removes a great threat from Liverpools armoury. Lately i've noticed how teams are very quick to close down Alonso and he looks very uncomfortable with it,I've lost count of the number of times he's been caught dwelling on the ball, sometimes he seems completely unaware that a man is on him.

To his credit although his passing game may have suffered Alonso has shown that he can be a very tough tackler and that his game is not one dimensional

A great player who on his day can be a match winner but given the competition we have for those midfield places, certainly needs to up his game if he wants to be an automatic choice.

Good post that, I'd agree with that especially your first sentence. 

[Sabre]

Maybe we could "do a Chelsea " and shoehorn all four into the team in a diamond pattern:-

                         Alonso
            Masherano        Sissoko
                        Gerrard
                   Torres    Kuyt

and play without width or wingers. It didn't work for Chelsea and most probably wouldn't work for us, but at least we would all have our own superstar midfielder in the team

Well, it's an option.

An option that has won the CL final yesteryear. Inzagui upfront, a classy attacking midfielder behind, no width and a load of quality midfielders behind. It's not madness.

However, I doubt it, we have signed men to play wide and we haven't tried that never.

[Sabre]

Hey Mick! I only was aware of using one of your points in the forward pressing, and I put it in a exagerated manner, don't think I feel your point is useless I was joking.

We did see last season some games in which Alonso did an average game or poor game for his standards. We did see the moments Woof describes of him being unaware that a man was next to him (although sometimes a team mate shout helps), and we did see some more than normal astray passes.

However, I don't think the improvement now is that big, and I don't think he was that bad in the past, meaning, some of the opinions on his form were a bit too harsh. Meaning it's fair to say those things, but people went too far saying he was a worse player than first season (he was more naive) or even that selling him would be a good thing. IMHO, we're talking about normal form moments of players. Gerrard has done a couple of poorer games the last matches, but we all know he's the best and he'll come to the best in a few matches if not the next.

On the point of Mascherano being a more energetic ball winner, I agree. It's a pleasure to see him making a siding tackle. Alonso instead is better IMHO to cover his team mates, he's almost always where he should be, he doesn't have to run much because he's where he should (for that position).

[account deleted by request]

Gary McAllister today hailed the early season form of Javier Mascherano and insisted: 'He’s one of the best in the country.' 
Mascherano was arguably Liverpool's best player during Saturday's stalemate with Birmingham and McAllister insists the Argentinian international has all the qualities to establish himself as one of the top midfielders around.
 
Speaking on LFC TV's 'The Match' programme, the former Liverpool midfielder said: "Mascherano has shown his class since arriving here. It didn't happen for him at West Ham in a move that I thought was strange to begin with.
 
"Now he is surrounded by quality players and is really showing his worth.
 
"For me, he was the one who stood out against Birmingham at the weekend. He's one of the cleanest tacklers of a football I've ever seen. Every time he looks to be in trouble he manages to come away with the ball."

[stmichael]

I like Alonso but have never really felt that when he not playing we miss him. I think there's more than enough quality in our midfield to make up for Alonso's absence.

I disagree with Sabre when he says  "His passing is decent ok",  Alonso is technically one of the best passes of the ball in the premiership, although I also have to admit that he hasn't been showing as much of that ability of late. That may well be down to another point Sabre has made with which I do agree  "Alonso is slow, it actually takes one forward pressing him a little and he's already uncomfortable"  Teams have indeed learnt that stopping Alonso from delivering the passes he's capable of removes a great threat from Liverpools armoury. Lately i've noticed how teams are very quick to close down Alonso and he looks very uncomfortable with it,I've lost count of the number of times he's been caught dwelling on the ball, sometimes he seems completely unaware that a man is on him.

To his credit although his passing game may have suffered Alonso has shown that he can be a very tough tackler and that his game is not one dimensional

A great player who on his day can be a match winner but given the competition we have for those midfield places, certainly needs to up his game if he wants to be an automatic choice.

Good post Woof. I agree, and this is coming from one of Alonso's biggest fans. I think Alonsos contribution to the team is open to debate, as I dont think he had the best of years last time out. Whilst i rate Alonso very highly, I thought he was ordinary last season overall by his own high standards, and in my opinion, owes us some big performances in the big matches this season.

I thought Alonsos passing during his 1st season, was reminscent of a younger, more mobile Jan Molby, but I dont think hes scaled those heights consistently since that fat Chelsea tw@t snapped his ankle.

Hes been given a 90k a week contract to keep him here, and is obviously a main player in Rafas plans, so he has prove hes worth such a high salary, and get back to the player we know he can be if he is to fight off the competition for a regular place in the team.

[Bad Bob]

Not going to get drawn into the Alonso debate again but I would say that, while we'll miss him to a certain degree this time around, I don't think we'll miss him as much as we did after the Lampard ankle-breaker in 04-05.  That does not mean that Alonso's form has dropped off precipitously (it hasn't dropped that much IMO) but that we now have much better cover.  Hamman, of course, was brilliant but we also had the likes of Biscan and Smicer playing CM that year.

[Lando_Griffin]

It's easy enough to solve this:

Let's just wait and see how we perform over the coming weeks.

[woof woof !]

OK .

[Lando_Griffin]

I'm waiting...

Ok discuss with me.

Mind you, Mascherano is more compatible with Gerrard. In the Oporto game and in the Birmingham game you didn't see any of that, but that's obviously because of rotation and constant tinkering.

The 6-0 against Derby was an accident, and the Villa game was not a proof of that Alonso and Gerrard can do well together, it was just Gerrard being brilliant.

Gerrard playing on the right last seasons was due to this uncompatibilty, not because the squad needed him there at the time. His 23 goals in the season he played a lot as a RM in proves nothing. Gerrard in the right was a mistake, and fortunately enough Rafa has corrected it.

Alonso is slow, it actually takes one forward pressing him a little and he's already uncomfortable. He's passing is decent ok, but in the last game I saw him sending 3 passes astray, unlike Mascherano who gets them all right.

Mascherano is a better player. We know him better because he came in winter, and we have seen too much of the Spaniard

This will do for a discussion lando? Feel free to answer

I'm not entering this again, (BTW Sabre you talk sense when being sarcastic) Lando lad you've just got tunnel vision and cannot see the broader view, carry on masturbating over your Spanish idol.

My opinion is Alonso is overated by you Lando, nothing more. Sabre likes him because he played for RS, he's hoping Torres will fail here, and he doesnt rate Arbeloa, hmmmm.

Bias the pair of ya, I can handle that but while the pair of you are in the tub together keep your bubbles in the bath.

Ah yes - the "broader" view - i.e. YOUR view - am I right?

When did you last go to a live Liverpool game again...?

Surely you should listen to the people who actually attend current matches, rather than sit thinking "Oooh, the nasty Spanish man made Stevie-weavy play out wide on the right. That nasty Spanish man..." all the time.

Only - and I mean this sincerely - only a complete numbskull would fail to see Alonso's superiority as a footballer to Javier Mascherano.

A list of their comparative strengths:

Xabi:                                                Javier:

Vision                                               Power
Passing ability                                    Pace
Creativity                                          Sliding/recovery tackles
Positional sense                                  Stamina
Goalscoring                                        Agility
Tactical ability
Reading of the game
Anticipation
Standing tackles/Interceptions
Heading
Dead-ball delivery, inc Freekicks and corners
Ability to control the game and it's tempo.


So you see - it's not even a closely run thing.

[dawson99]

what about consistency tho lando? coz when alonso has a stinker he costs us with wayward passing etc...

both great players if u ask me

[Sabre]

It's easy enough to solve this:

Let's just wait and see how we perform over the coming weeks.

To be honest, and you know I consider clueless and a circus joke those who underrate Alonso, I believe that  Bad Bob is right when he says that right now our squad is deep enough to face any given problem.

No matter who gets injured, we can give a proper answer.

But as Bigmick suggests, the best thing to do is to give the matter not some weeks but more time. We'll see at the end of the season how many games start each player, how much Alonso is used, and whether it's true what some people thought some months back that Alonso would struggle to play regularly in this team. I think, hope and expect the Gerrard-Mascherano partnership will work ok as they're both great footballers.

I'm very confident in the outcome, Alonso when he's been available I think he's been picked in every game of the league so far. With the some say incompatible Gerrard, with Mascherano and with Sissoko.

[Lando_Griffin]

what about consistency tho lando? coz when alonso has a stinker he costs us with wayward passing etc...

both great players if u ask me

Despite what many think, Alonso's consistency is far better than the majority of our squad. His passing hasn't been up to his own standards, but the rest of his game has been very much the same as his first season - better in many respects.

(But by the same token, Gerrard hasn't been up to HIS standards for over a year - does that mean he should be dropped, too?)

And don't forget that Mascher is still in his "first" season with us. (In his first season, Alonso was regarded as the best thing since sliced bread.)

Remember - Javier still has the cushion of being something of an unknown quantity in this league. Once he has been sussed, HIS game will be less effective, too. (As will al players.)

But then - the fools on here wouldn't think about that... Evidently, being "sussed out" is something exclusive to Alonso...

[Lando_Griffin]

what about consistency tho lando? coz when alonso has a stinker he costs us with wayward passing etc...

both great players if u ask me

But I do agree, they're both great players, and I'm very happy that both are here at Anfield.