Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

I'm waiting...

Ok discuss with me.

Mind you, Mascherano is more compatible with Gerrard. In the Oporto game and in the Birmingham game you didn't see any of that, but that's obviously because of rotation and constant tinkering.

The 6-0 against Derby was an accident, and the Villa game was not a proof of that Alonso and Gerrard can do well together, it was just Gerrard being brilliant.

Gerrard playing on the right last seasons was due to this uncompatibilty, not because the squad needed him there at the time. His 23 goals in the season he played a lot as a RM in proves nothing. Gerrard in the right was a mistake, and fortunately enough Rafa has corrected it.

Alonso is slow, it actually takes one forward pressing him a little and he's already uncomfortable. He's passing is decent ok, but in the last game I saw him sending 3 passes astray, unlike Mascherano who gets them all right.

Mascherano is a better player. We know him better because he came in winter, and we have seen too much of the Spaniard

This will do for a discussion lando? Feel free to answer

[Lando_Griffin]

I'm waiting...

Ok discuss with me.

Mind you, Mascherano is more compatible with Gerrard. In the Oporto game and in the Birmingham game you didn't see any of that, but that's obviously because of rotation and constant tinkering.

The 6-0 against Derby was an accident, and the Villa game was not a proof of that Alonso and Gerrard can do well together, it was just Gerrard being brilliant.

Gerrard playing on the right last seasons was due to this uncompatibilty, not because the squad needed him there at the time. His 23 goals in the season he played a lot as a RM in proves nothing. Gerrard in the right was a mistake, and fortunately enough Rafa has corrected it.

Alonso is slow, it actually takes one forward pressing him a little and he's already uncomfortable. He's passing is decent ok, but in the last game I saw him sending 3 passes astray, unlike Mascherano who gets them all right.

Mascherano is a better player. We know him better because he came in winter, and we have seen too much of the Spaniard

This will do for a discussion lando? Feel free to answer

You know - the REAL joke here is the fact that some people actually think like that! 

I have to say this - LFCtv channel - they're running through a top ten, and Alonso was just on. You know what they said about him?:

"The Pass Master. From his first game everyone saw how classy he was. Everyone now knows that to stop Liverpool, you need to stop Alonso because every move goes through him." - Tony Barret, Liverpool Echo.

"It took him 39 minutes of his first game to misplace a pass - that shows he's World Class." - John Arne Riise.

"The best passer of a ball I've ever played with. I love playing with him." - Steven Gerrard.

But then - what do they know, right? 

[account deleted by request]

Not wishing to enter the debate but just for balance:-

Liverpool fans player of the season table - competitive games only
 
Fernando Torres. 12 points.
 
Javier Mascherano. 10 points. 
 
Dirk Kuyt. 7 points.
 
Steven Gerrard. 6 points.
 
Momo Sissoko. 6 points.
 
Yossi Benayoun. 6 points.
 
Jermaine Pennant. 5 points.
 
Andriy Voronin. 3 points.
 
Pepe Reina. 3 points.
 
Sami Hyypia. 2 points.

LFC.TV

Liverpoolfc.tv player of the season table - competitive games only
 
Fernando Torres. 13 points.
 
Javier Mascherano. 10 points. 
 
Steven Gerrard. 6 points.
 
Sami Hyypia. 5 points.
 
Yossi Benayoun. 5 points.
 
Jermaine Pennant. 4 points.
 
Momo Sissoko. 4 points.
 
Andriy Voronin. 3 points.
 
Pepe Reina. 3 points.
 
Dirk Kuyt. 3 points.
 
Jamie Carragher. 3 points.
 
Alvaro Arbeloa. 2 points.

[Sabre]

So Kuyt is better than Gerrard and Reina is not a key member of the squad. Interesting

We discussed the Mascherano vs Alonso well enough, and every side put decent footie arguements (exagerations aside). To be honest a "vs" kind of discussion is pointless and I laughed about it. They're both two players I wouldn't want to lose in the team, for different footie reasons.

Alonso is an important player and a lenghty injury of him is inconvenient, as would be a Mascherano or Reina one. I do think the people (not you) has got used to him. I can see his pros and cons , but definitely think that he's a better player than in the first season. Experience, and all that.

[AB's Red Army]

Not wishing to enter the debate but just for balance:-

Liverpool fans player of the season table - competitive games only
 
Fernando Torres. 12 points.
 
Javier Mascherano. 10 points. 
 
Dirk Kuyt. 7 points.
 
Steven Gerrard. 6 points.
 
Momo Sissoko. 6 points.
 
Yossi Benayoun. 6 points.
 
Jermaine Pennant. 5 points.
 
Andriy Voronin. 3 points.
 
Pepe Reina. 3 points.
 
Sami Hyypia. 2 points.

LFC.TV

Liverpoolfc.tv player of the season table - competitive games only
 
Fernando Torres. 13 points.
 
Javier Mascherano. 10 points. 
 
Steven Gerrard. 6 points.
 
Sami Hyypia. 5 points.
 
Yossi Benayoun. 5 points.
 
Jermaine Pennant. 4 points.
 
Momo Sissoko. 4 points.
 
Andriy Voronin. 3 points.
 
Pepe Reina. 3 points.
 
Dirk Kuyt. 3 points.
 
Jamie Carragher. 3 points.
 
Alvaro Arbeloa. 2 points.

Proves nothing considering that by that very same list, Gerrard was voted to be the best player of the year last year.

I disagree with that decision and I've come across many with the same opinion. Finnan or Carragher should have won.

[account deleted by request]

So Kuyt is better than Gerrard and Reina is not a key member of the squad. Interesting

We discussed the Mascherano vs Alonso well enough, and every side put decent footie arguements (exagerations aside). To be honest a "vs" kind of discussion is pointless and I laughed about it. They're both two players I wouldn't want to lose in the team, for different footie reasons.

Alonso is an important player and a lenghty injury of him is inconvenient, as would be a Mascherano or Reina one. I do think the people (not you) has got used to him. I can see his pros and cons , but definitely think that he's a better player than in the first season. Experience, and all that.

I don't think its a better than table,Sabre, its just a who played best table similar to the one Joe Terp started.

Interesting that Alonso doesnt even get a mention in either. Maybe Gerrard hasn't got many points because he has played below par since his injury. I would presume he got 3 points against Villa for the goal alone  Presumably Reina hasn't got that many points because of games like Brum where he his hardly likely to shine.

[Lando_Griffin]

Not wishing to enter the debate but just for balance:-

Liverpool fans player of the season table - competitive games only
 
Fernando Torres. 12 points.
 
Javier Mascherano. 10 points. 
 
Dirk Kuyt. 7 points.
 
Steven Gerrard. 6 points.
 
Momo Sissoko. 6 points.
 
Yossi Benayoun. 6 points.
 
Jermaine Pennant. 5 points.
 
Andriy Voronin. 3 points.
 
Pepe Reina. 3 points.
 
Sami Hyypia. 2 points.

LFC.TV

Liverpoolfc.tv player of the season table - competitive games only
 
Fernando Torres. 13 points.
 
Javier Mascherano. 10 points. 
 
Steven Gerrard. 6 points.
 
Sami Hyypia. 5 points.
 
Yossi Benayoun. 5 points.
 
Jermaine Pennant. 4 points.
 
Momo Sissoko. 4 points.
 
Andriy Voronin. 3 points.
 
Pepe Reina. 3 points.
 
Dirk Kuyt. 3 points.
 
Jamie Carragher. 3 points.
 
Alvaro Arbeloa. 2 points.

We've seen in the past that these polls are about as much use as a pair of sunglasses in a cave, so I don't really understand the point.

These polls are done by idiots who don't even watch the games, and the staff at lfc.tv are often no better.

[account deleted by request]

Anyway how did Mascherano get dragged into this argument! This was a Alonso is god but Gerrard is better argument. Just cos he's only little he gets picked on

[account deleted by request]

I have to say this - LFCtv channel - they're running through a top ten, and Alonso was just on. You know what they said about him?:

It was in reply to this quote from you mate

[Lando_Griffin]

I have to say this - LFCtv channel - they're running through a top ten, and Alonso was just on. You know what they said about him?:

It was in reply to this quote from you mate

But the people on there actually knew what they were talking about.

Seriously, though, anyone who thinks they know Xabi Alonso better than:

Rafa Benitez,
Steven Gerrard,
John Arne Riise,
Tony Barret,
Jamie Carragher,
and Didi Hamann,

REALLY needs to pop their inflated ego...

[account deleted by request]

Just to make matters worse :-

Four Liverpool stars have been named in a poll of the 100 greatest players in the world. 
Steven Gerrard (6), Fernando Torres (34), Javier Mascherano (94) and Jamie Carragher (97) all made Four Four Two Magazine's list.
 
Kaka was deemed the world's best player, with Cristiano Ronaldo second, Ronaldinho third, Thierry Henry fourth and Lionel Messi in fifth.
 
Meanwhile, Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard were asked to pick their top fives, which went like this:
 
Fernando Torres
 
1. Steven Gerrard
2. Kaka
3. Ronaldinho
4. Wayne Rooney
5. Thierry Henry
 
Steven Gerrard
 
1. Kaka
2. Lionel Messi
3. Thierry Henry
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
5. Ronaldinho 

lfc tv

No mention of Alonso ?  but Mascherano just managed to scrape into the top 100, and Gerrard was 6th.

[66-1112520797]

I'm waiting...

Ok discuss with me.

Mind you, Mascherano is more compatible with Gerrard. In the Oporto game and in the Birmingham game you didn't see any of that, but that's obviously because of rotation and constant tinkering.

The 6-0 against Derby was an accident, and the Villa game was not a proof of that Alonso and Gerrard can do well together, it was just Gerrard being brilliant.

Gerrard playing on the right last seasons was due to this uncompatibilty, not because the squad needed him there at the time. His 23 goals in the season he played a lot as a RM in proves nothing. Gerrard in the right was a mistake, and fortunately enough Rafa has corrected it.

Alonso is slow, it actually takes one forward pressing him a little and he's already uncomfortable. He's passing is decent ok, but in the last game I saw him sending 3 passes astray, unlike Mascherano who gets them all right.

Mascherano is a better player. We know him better because he came in winter, and we have seen too much of the Spaniard

This will do for a discussion lando? Feel free to answer

I'm not entering this again, (BTW Sabre you talk sense when being sarcastic) Lando lad you've just got tunnel vision and cannot see the broader view, carry on masturbating over your Spanish idol.

My opinion is Alonso is overated by you Lando, nothing more. Sabre likes him because he played for RS, he's hoping Torres will fail here, and he doesnt rate Arbeloa, hmmmm.

Bias the pair of ya, I can handle that but while the pair of you are in the tub together keep your bubbles in the bath.

[Sabre]

I also defended Morientes until the last day... I rate Reina highly... mmmmm.... make a pattern out of that. We could say that your previous accusattion of supporting anything Spaniard is wrong 

Seriously I don't mind you like Mascherano more than Alonso. I don't even mind you don't rate Alonso, it's your likings. But do not make complicated theories about a guy in Spain (me) that you don't know. I simply like and dislike players like everyone here. So don't go that way, it simply highlights the incapacity you have to back your thoughts with football reasons!!. THis is not sarcasm, this is an advice 

[bigmick]

Jeez I missed out on this what a great thread. My past ramblings on many subjects are being bandied about as the words of a clueless gimp and I wasn't even around to counter, ah well here goes

Fistly on where Gerrard should play, my own view has pretty much always been since Rafa switched him that he is at his most effective when he plays on the right hand side of midfield. I did say at the start of this season that many who were applauding his move into the centre may be changing their minds once he disappears into the "bermuda triangle" in front of the oppostion back four a few times and I still think that's a distinct possibility. Having said that, I would be a little wary of claiming at this stage that he is quite the failure as a central midfielder that some are. He is patently obviously not fit, and despite what many think about us missing Alonso or anyone else for that matter, it is this reason above all others (including the selectorial silliness which led to Torres sitting out two Premiership games ) which has contributed most to our derailment in my view. Similarly, I think judgements on who is the most compatible with Gerrard centrally (and I've said a couple of times it's Masherano in my opinion) are best left until the captain regains form which is at the very least in the same ball park to the level he normally plays at. The way he has played in the last few games would make him frankly incompatable with just about anybody so we'll see, but he remains by a distance the best player at the club and no amount of shouting and name calling will alter the fact.

As for Alonso and his form prior to his injury, I thought it was very good to be honest. I thought he was excellent at Villa, and he continued to impress as he went on. It's nice to see because only his most loyal supporters (and I'm well aware there are a few around these parts) would deny that he has been below his best for a while now. All footballers at this level must develop as the opposition work out how to play against them, and Alonso will be well aware of the fact that he needs to play in the pocket a lot less when we have the ball. If he moves out of that comfort zone he becomes a different player altogether, capable of far more with the ball than the Argentinian and then he'd change many a mind, probably including mine. If however he decides to sit within touching distance of the centre halves as he has done too often, not only is his creative bent surpressed by the opposition forwards but he also stops his central midfield partner from having the option to drop in himself. It can make us look a bit one dimensional, and if he insists on doing that then you're better off going with Masherano who is a far more combative and energetic ballwinner.

Anyways I've given my views on all these issues before, and the debate is none the less interesting now. Just to throw a spanner in the works, my ideal midfield if alonso is performing near enough to his best to bring Gerrard into the game from the right side doesn't include Masherano at all. It does include Sissoko though, who forms very close to a perfect match with Alonso.

[66-1112520797]

I've given plenty of footballing reasons over Xabi around here.

So don't go that way, it simply highlights the incapacity you have to back your thoughts with football reasons!!.

Ok discuss with me.

Mind you, Mascherano is more compatible with Gerrard. In the Oporto game and in the Birmingham game you didn't see any of that, but that's obviously because of rotation and constant tinkering.

The 6-0 against Derby was an accident, and the Villa game was not a proof of that Alonso and Gerrard can do well together, it was just Gerrard being brilliant.

Gerrard playing on the right last seasons was due to this uncompatibilty, not because the squad needed him there at the time. His 23 goals in the season he played a lot as a RM in proves nothing. Gerrard in the right was a mistake, and fortunately enough Rafa has corrected it.

Alonso is slow, it actually takes one forward pressing him a little and he's already uncomfortable. He's passing is decent ok, but in the last game I saw him sending 3 passes astray, unlike Mascherano who gets them all right.

Mascherano is a better player. We know him better because he came in winter, and we have seen too much of the Spaniard

This will do for a discussion lando? Feel free to answer

Oh the ironey

We could say that your previous accusattion of supporting anything Spaniard is wrong   

Ah yes we could say this, but its a little bit more complex with you though isnt it.