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[red37]

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.....Your point about Xabi Alonso being 

[Sabre]

Perhaps we should start manager rotation...............................

In Spain we're experts at that, you can see sometimes even 3 managers in one season.

Erm, it doesn't work 

[Bad Bob]

hi bob, every time a player plays there is a risk of injury so they take that risk in important games, they get paid very very well to play and the want to play.

the portsmouth game was important, as is every game. the fact remains he never started, he came on and could have aggravated the injury at that point. its a lame excuse to be fair to say he might get injured, there are so many what ifs.

the fact is he is a sportsman who risks injury EVERY time he performs or trains

Actually, that's a fair response, mate.  I was just playing devil's advocate on that one.  I've said in the past and I still contend that I would have probably risked Torres against Portsmouth. 

But, I do think that the outcry about Gerrard not playing that occured at the time has proven misguided in hindsight, given that the player himself has admitted that the toe's been bothering him since the internationals.  Still others were flummoxed that Babel wasn't played either and, again, I think we can see that as a bit of an over-reaction in hindsight, given that his subsequent form in no way indicates that he should be considered a nailed-on starter.  So, I think the people who criticized the manager for mass rotation in that game got it wrong.  With the notable exception of Torres, I think Rafa played pretty much his strongest available team that day.

My point in bringing these details up, you ask?  Well, I think it's useful to illustrate that what seems like 'madness' (or silliness) at the time (resting Gerrard, Babel and Torres for a tough away game?) starts to make a bit more sense in hindsight--even if we can see that Rafa probably did make a mistake in not playing Torres.  It's a subtle point I'm trying to make here and I don't want to be misunderstood so I'll say it another way: Rafa made a mistake against Portsmouth.  His mistake, contrary to the opinions of many at the time, was not mass rotation but, rather, was not gambling a little on the fitness of our star striker given that injuries to other creative players might have blunted our attack somewhat.

Which brings me back to a question that Mick posed earlier in the thread.  He wondered how us in the "pro" brigade can keep a straight face when we defend the system--especially (and I'm taking liberties, here, by anticipating Mick's response) when we acknowledge that some of Rafa's selections have left us perplexed as well.  Now, I won't speak for others but, for me personally, I tend to gravitate to the "pro" brigade primarily because I disagree so strongly with the reductionism that comes from many (not all) in the "anti" brigade.  IMHO, assessing something as complex as a poor team performance is never as simple as saying "ifithadnerbeenforrafa'srotationpolicy"!

[red37]

"ifithadnerbeenforrafa'srotationpolicy"

Good one for me bin that Bob.

Along with:

Brigade, Anti-rotationalists, selectorial, advocate (not the egg flip version), flummoxed    and my favourite 'reductionism' - Classic!




(not the greatest contribution to a thread, granted - in all seriousness though, its getting a tad stale now.

[Igor Zidane]

Agreed , were going over the same ground here time and again . I think it would be a good idea to try and call a ceasfire regarding the rotation debate until after christmas say . See where the teams at and go from there. If we have the debate after every single game ,it's just going to strangle all the footy threads to death. If every one is in agreement to atleast try this (i know it will be hard) i think it will bring a freshness to the debate come christmas. Just a thought!

[Bad Bob]

Alright lads...I promise not to call anyone's position reductionist again until the new year, no matter how flummoxed I get by the 'anti' brigade!

[Bammo]

Why not have a thread dedicated to all the rotation debate so that it's separate? That way other topics will stay focussed instead of always turning into rotation talk and inevitable arguments.

[Bad Bob]

Why not have a thread dedicated to all the rotation debate so that it's separate? That way other topics will stay focussed instead of always turning into rotation talk and inevitable arguments.

But, of course, we have not just one but several existing threads on rotation, mate:

Recent Rotation Thread #1

Recent Rotation Thread #2

Recent Rotation Thread #3

Just why it resurfaces in every decent footy thread is a bit of a mystery but I certainly accept my share of the blame for it.  Rest assured it's not out of any desire to hijack threads and turn all discussion into a referendum on rotation.  I think, as the main issue dividing supporters these days, it just emerges organically out of any decent football discussion, much like what happens when you talk football with your mates in the pub.  I don't see much wrong with that since I'm enjoying the debate, although I suppose I could understand people's frustration if they were interested in talking about, say, how much we might be missing Alonso without wading through another round of 'rotation yay or nay?'.  Again, apologies for my contribution to this unscheduled detour.

[Igor Zidane]

Why not have a thread dedicated to all the rotation debate so that it's separate? That way other topics will stay focussed instead of always turning into rotation talk and inevitable arguments.

But, of course, we have not just one but several existing threads on rotation, mate:

Recent Rotation Thread #1

Recent Rotation Thread #2

Recent Rotation Thread #3

Just why it resurfaces in every decent footy thread is a bit of a mystery but I certainly accept my share of the blame for it.  Rest assured it's not out of any desire to hijack threads and turn all discussion into a referendum on rotation.  I think, as the main issue dividing supporters these days, it just emerges organically out of any decent football discussion, much like what happens when you talk football with your mates in the pub.  I don't see much wrong with that since I'm enjoying the debate, although I suppose I could understand people's frustration if they were interested in talking about, say, how much we might be missing Alonso without wading through another round of 'rotation yay or nay?'.  Again, apologies for my contribution to this unscheduled detour.

I agree with what your saying bob , and we're all guilty of talking rotation , but i just think if we left it for a bit ,we'ed get a clearer picture of how the teams doing under the rotation system . It's easy after every game to say well we were because of rotation or we were great because of rotation . If we give it a month or two and see where the team is in the league and see what our results have been like . We will have a better understanding of the merits or not of rotation.

[Bammo]

OK,no more mentioning the "r word"

Is there any news on when Alonso will be back in action? I think we've missed his ability to create something from deep. Mascherano and Sissoko are great players but more defensive. It's against the weaker teams that we need to be more attacking and Alonso is ideal.

[account deleted by request]

Bigmick agrees not to mention rotation 

[Bad Bob]

Bigmick agrees not to mention rotation 

On the bright side, it spared us from the equally tedious Alonso vs. Mascherano debate for awhile! 

[rish]

Its clear that we are badly missing Xabi...our passing without him to put it bluntly is . Against a terrible team in Marseille our midfield is barely achieving parity...with Xabi in the side we would be dominating possession 60-40...no doubt some ignorant will slate Xabi when hes back in the team...the fact is he makes us tick, hes been our leading passer and tackler for the last 2 years. Get well soon Xabi as we are badly missing you.

[Ciggy]

What a suprise............

[mungi]

lol. of course we need alonso. those doubters of him should go screw themself