Liverpool FC Forum

[66-1112520797]

Erm,just in case I wasn't clear enough, I wasn't having a dig at you, just stating the fact that opinions of players change often in the forum. Not that YOU do it. You want examples? Sissoko, Pennant, Alonso... all of them have been praised and have got stick. SO it shouldn't be a surprise for you to see people changing opinions, that's was all my point.

Okay then I just thought it was another dig at me.

My bad.

[Lando_Griffin]

It amazes me how people are quick to change their tunes around here

Welcome to my World...

[dawson99]

defence isnt our problem at the moment tho, its creating and scoring that we need to sort out... therefore anyone who can give us something extra in midfield will be missed

[Lando_Griffin]

defence isnt our problem at the moment tho, its creating and scoring that we need to sort out... therefore anyone who can give us something extra in midfield will be missed

The question is - how many assists has Agger made?

Not a lot...

[dawson99]

yeah given, but wouldnt wanna put all my creative eggs in the agger basket if you know what i mean. looking at the talent we got in the squad its the midfield where we should be making the majority of assists etc

[Lando_Griffin]

yeah given, but wouldnt wanna put all my creative eggs in the agger basket if you know what i mean. looking at the talent we got in the squad its the midfield where we should be making the majority of assists etc

That's my point:

We've still not conceded from open play, but we're struggling to create goals.

So...

Of the two absentees - which would you say we were missing the most?

[AB's Red Army]

yeah given, but wouldnt wanna put all my creative eggs in the agger basket if you know what i mean. looking at the talent we got in the squad its the midfield where we should be making the majority of assists etc

That's my point:

We've still not conceded from open play, but we're struggling to create goals.

So...

Of the two absentees - which would you say we were missing the most?

The combination of the two.

It's funny that you decided to bring up assists, because Alonso doesn't have a lot either.

Assists at times are overrated.

Let's say you have Alonso hitting a sixty five yard pass to Pennant, who beats his defender and plays a simple ball to Torres for a tap in.

Pennant get's the assist, but does that mean that Alonso is useless because he didn't get the last touch before the goal was scored?

I don't think so.

[redtrader74]

True AB, just like sometimes you could put a ball on Crouch's forehead, 6 yards out and he'll head it into the changing rooms...the 'assist' is there.

[red37]

Same as Reina.. how many attacks leading to an end product does he instigate with his sharpness/awareness in distribution.

[account deleted by request]

A few stats :-

name assists number of passes   passing accuracy

Alvaro Arbeloa 0 222  82,4% 
Jamie Carragher 0 181  74,0% 
Steve Finnan 0 181  84,5% 
Daniel Agger 0 177  76,8% 
Sami Hyypia 0 150  82,0% 
John Arne Riise 0 149  73,2% 
Fabio Aurelio 0 26  69,2% 

Midfielder
Xabi Alonso 0 265  77,7% 
Steven Gerrard 1 209  78,0% 
Jermaine Pennant 1 194  76,3% 
Javier Mascherano 1 156  80,8% 
Ryan Babel 1 101  76,2% 
Mohamed Sissoko 0 88  73,9% 
Yossi Benayoun 0 61  75,4% 

Tackling

Tackles attempted Tackles success Interceptions

Alvaro Arbeloa 21 100,0%  13 
Steve Finnan 20 65,0%  8 
Jamie Carragher 10 60,0%  10 
Sami Hyypia 7 42,9%  12 
John Arne Riise 6 83,3%  5 
Daniel Agger 5 80,0%  9 
Fabio Aurelio 2 50,0%  2 
Midfielder
Javier Mascherano 21 76,2%  16 
Xabi Alonso 16 56,3%  10 
Mohamed Sissoko 13 69,2%  4 
Jermaine Pennant 12 75,0%  9 
Steven Gerrard 11 72,7%  14 
Ryan Babel 4 75,0%  3 
Yossi Benayoun 3 66,7%  4


Alonso obviously attempts more long passes than Mascherano which is probably why his percentage is lower. Alonso's tackling success rate is way down though. Arbeloa's success rate is an astounding 100%, and along with Masch has made the most tackles too.


And just for a comparison :-
                 tackles   success %
Hamann Man City 35 80%

                   passes success%                 
Hamann Man City 427 82%

[Lando_Griffin]

yeah given, but wouldnt wanna put all my creative eggs in the agger basket if you know what i mean. looking at the talent we got in the squad its the midfield where we should be making the majority of assists etc

That's my point:

We've still not conceded from open play, but we're struggling to create goals.

So...

Of the two absentees - which would you say we were missing the most?

The combination of the two.

It's funny that you decided to bring up assists, because Alonso doesn't have a lot either.

Assists at times are overrated.

Let's say you have Alonso hitting a sixty five yard pass to Pennant, who beats his defender and plays a simple ball to Torres for a tap in.

Pennant get's the assist, but does that mean that Alonso is useless because he didn't get the last touch before the goal was scored?

I don't think so.

True enough.

[AB's Red Army]

What, that's it? No rant? Damn, this is a sign of the apocalypse.

[account deleted by request]

As my stats clearly prove.......... we have been carrying Alonso for a long time.




















If that doesn't warm Lando up someone had better phone for him a doc 

[Sabre]

Your stats clearly prove that we have more possession with Alonso in the pitch and thus less tackles are needed.

Seriously though, Would you be so kind to tell us the sources of that stats? I don't give them too much importance when they don't gather a decent amount of games, and when they're not understood in context (for the reason explained by AB with assists), and I'd like to have a look at those and other stats as the season advances.

It doesn't surprise me Mascherano does more tackles, he's better than Alonso in that aspect of the game, but overall as a holding midfielder, I think 7 out of 10 coaches of the world would pick Alonso rather than Mascherano as a holding mid. As he dominates his zone in aerial balls, chooses well when to tackle and when to hold a player, and marks the tempo of the game very well (apart from set pieces, range efforts, etc). He does things they seem simple but few make those things simple.

[account deleted by request]

Your stats clearly prove that we have more possession with Alonso in the pitch and thus less tackles are needed.

Seriously though, Would you be so kind to tell us the sources of that stats? I don't give them too much importance when they don't gather a decent amount of games, and when they're not understood in context (for the reason explained by AB with assists), and I'd like to have a look at those and other stats as the season advances.

It doesn't surprise me Mascherano does more tackles, he's better than Alonso in that aspect of the game, but overall as a holding midfielder, I think 7 out of 10 coaches of the world would pick Alonso rather than Mascherano as a holding mid. As he dominates his zone in aerial balls, chooses well when to tackle and when to hold a player, and marks the tempo of the game very well (apart from set pieces, range efforts, etc). He does things they seem simple but few make those things simple.

Daily Telegraph LINK
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I should have given my source before.

I think 7/10 coaches would pick Mascherano but who's counting

Both great players on their day, we should be happy we have them both rather than arguing over who's better, but it gives us something to talk about anyway.

I would still swop either one of them for a great creative second striker.