Liverpool FC Forum

[112-1077774096]

The good thing, is that we have that choice of quality now. We don't have to use a Zenden now! What a bless!

except in the semi final of the champions league

[babu]

Maybe we will not be selling Alonso aftar all. Juventus are about to make a 15mil bid for Sissoko. Nicked this of LFC.TV by the way so take it ur leave it its up to you.

£15m or euros? I'd take anything £6m+ for Sissoko, if we can get double that then great.

15mil Is wot it said and that is wot i would sell him for not a penny less.

Nah i agree with Owzat. Sissoko playing 1st team football for Liverpool in two years MAY be worth 15 million squids, but at moment, imo , 6+ would be good money. I really do like him, though.

[ConnO'var]

Mascherano, who could also be seen as a holding mid, is a less especific midfielder. He could play on front of Alonso. Mascherano provides something Alonso hasn't, conduction of the ball, running with it. He gives a lot of oxygen to our midfield (sorry I really struggle with my footie english mate). And since he has joined, he has allowed Alonso to go upper more times, the shot against Czec in which Kuyt scored, or Alonso's last goal happens because a mate covers Alonso when he does this.

But, before winter. When you have 6 players on front of the ball. With Pennant. With Gerrard. With 2 strikers. Either you "sacrifice" Alonso a bit, or you can't be one of the best defences of the premiership. Quite simply, it's Alonso's role.

BTW, I like Mascherano a lot. And I'm happy that next year, we'll have Mascherano-Alonso-Gerrard, rather than Mascherano-Alonso-Sissoko trio. OR Zenden in the middle for that matter. Mascherano is indeed a midfielder that can be compared to Alonso. I still don't know him well, but I like him a lot.

P.S. Ace' to discuss about positioning and each of the decissions we should drink a couple of beers, sit down together on the stadium and comment the decissions when we see all the pitch. Discuss that here is difficult.

PS2. I'd love to hear why people think that Alonso-Gerrard in the middle are not compatible.

There was already a discussion done on this..... But I'm afraid I don't know how to put a link on here....

On page 15..... a thread called The middle of the red park...

[Sabre]

Thanks for pointing that out, I might have missed it (lots of posts to read). (page 15? that's enough, I'll read it later)

[ConnO'var]

Thanks for pointing that out, I might have missed it (lots of posts to read). (page 15? that's enough, I'll read it later)

yup..... page 15....

A lot of the points raised here looks very similar.....

[redtrader74]

Does anyone here think that our front players are good enough??
I am sure the answer is NO
We have two strikers in Kuyt and Crouch which are squad players, for a club with our aspirations, they have little pace and movement. Bellamy has the pace but not the brains to put in the runs at the right time. We have had no one of the calibre of Kewell on the left and Pennant is just ok, so far.

So how on Earth can Alonso be seen at his best? His best is shoring up the back and spreading the ball forward to stretch the game, therefore he is not crowded out of the game and Gerrrard, if playing alongside, can join in attack. Bear in mind that i don't think that Cisse or Baros are perfect, but they could do something our current forwards cannot, and that is run with the ball and stretch the play, bringing the best out of Xabi.
The Xabi vs Mascherano dicussion is interesting but these players are not comparable, Mascherano so far seems to be a better version of Sissoko, maybe he has more to show, but that is the competition. Since Rafa likes to have Xabi and sissoko, i don't see why it won't be, longer term, Xabi and Masha.

IMHO i think you can play with Gerrard and Alonso together, if you have a genuine threat from the forwards, and although they try and graft, neither crouch or kuyt have that, with the better sides they are usually snuffed out easily. Lets be honest, if we were facing them as oppostion they would not worry you.
Xabi, Mascherano in the centre, Gerrard infront, two wingers and a striker, or even gerrard right and two strikers, but we need Kewell back and a top striker and then the middle would function better.

[Lando_Griffin]

haha, if they have a bad performance and someone says that performance is bad then thats a fact mate, its not being fickle, if a player starts well and goes through a prolonged period of performances is it not fair to say the are sh!t (bearing in mind we dont have the hindsight to se if they get better again so we dont know if their early promise is a flash in the pan)

come on mate no need for name calling on this, its not warranted.

So I guess then that Gerrard can go, provided Eto'o comes in part-ex, seeing as he's had a poor season?

Good players don't become overnight, and Alonso still has his ability - he's just f*cked.

I really don't care for comments which belittle his contributions, and "he's easily replaceable" is disrespectful to the lad - no one could do what he does for us.

Mascherano could definitely do a job for us - a very, very good one.

But he'd never do the job Xabi does, and that's the thing we'd miss.

come on lando, now its dummy out the pram time, thats not what i am saying and you know damn well thats not what i am saying, its ok having your say mate but resorting to making stupid comments is not needed, you are doing well enough without having to twist things.

i also have to ask the question 'just what has alonso done for us?"  it seems the argument here from some is that alonso is the best thing since sliced bread and is the be all and end all of LFC, he isnt.

and like i have said many times, i dont want him to leave but if its for the benefit of the club then so be it, let him go, if his sale makes way for players who can alter the team for the better and put us in at least touching distance of the title then great, lets sell him.

but i am not advocating selling him for a few dodgy performances and the wrong body language. the choice may not even be liverpools at the end of the day, if the rumours are true about homesickness then he will want to go to barcelona and there will be nothing the supporters can do about it.

i remember having this conversation about keegan, look what happened, i remember haing this conversation about souness (player) look what happened. one player does not make a team mate, alonso does not make liverpool. like i have said before if he does go it may turn out to be a blessing in disguise, just like when sissoko was injured and rafa was forced to play gerrard in his best position in the centre.

I'd hardly call that first line "dummy out of the pram time".

I'm simply saying - if we, in your view, should sell Alonso to benefit the team as;

a) He's had a dip in form,

b) We'd get a striker in return, and

c) Because we've not won the title with him,

then surely that means Gerrard can go, too? We'd get a sight more money and takers for him than Alonso.

Now - call me pedantic if you will, but that's essentially the cut of your jib, is it not?

And I don't believe "fickle" is name calling, and you should know me better by now than to think I wouldn't have started slagging people off directly had I wished.

OH, and just a point:

I haven't called ANYONE ANYTHING directly. How people interpret those sweeping statements is more down to a sense of guilt than my own words.

[Ade]

All this talk of 443, 4231, 451, 1764 10, it's all irrelevant in my eyes. One thing Rafa and the players have demonstrated this season is the ability to flawlessly switch between 2 or 3 different systems in one game. The point being that we have flexible and adaptable players who can all play in slightly different positions depending on what Rafa determines is needed at any point in time.

It's important to point out that players don't have positions in Benitez's lineup but 'roles'. It's more about what you ask individual players to do.

What you call the formation or the individual position is less important than what individuals are expected to do.

Talk of 4-5-1, 4-4-2 etc is not irelevant St Mick. Players, no matter how good they are, need a team to fit into, they need coaching, tactics and a game plan, and a formation underpins all of that. The idea that 11 players can go on the pitch and interchange is fantasy - even the galacticos at Real Madrid a few years ago when they were at their best (2001/3) only involved a few players floating around with licence to roam - most of that team had a spot in a formation.


And the ability to switch flawlessly between 3 or 4 formations in one game? It may come off occasionally, but how much is that switching formations in a game and more a case of one or two players breaking upfield for one move?

We've failed in the league, again. The only way to have a real crack at the title next year is to do what title-winning sides have always done - pick your best 11 as often as possible, with each player in their favoured position as often as possible, and stick to that formation more often than not. And if that means putting some big name noses out of joint occasionally, then that - again - is what title winning sides have had to do.

[bigmick]

We've failed in the league, again. The only way to have a real crack at the title next year is to do what title-winning sides have always done - pick your best 11 as often as possible, with each player in their favoured position as often as possible, and stick to that formation more often than not. And if that means putting some big name noses out of joint occasionally, then that - again - is what title winning sides have had to do.

I'm with this bloke 150%.

[account deleted by request]

BigMick just so you dont think I made up the term deep lying playmaker, this is off Wikipedia (and I didn't write it honest

Xabier Alonso Olano, commonly known as Xabi Alonso (born 25 November 1981 in Tolosa, Spain), is a Basque footballer who currently plays his club football for Liverpool F.C. in England. He wears the number 14 shirt at Liverpool and is a central midfielder, often playing as a deep-lying playmaker. Alonso has gained the reputation as being one of the best passers of the ball in the world. He also has a reputation for scoring spectacular long range goals, scoring two long range efforts against Luton Town in the FA Cup 3rd round, January 2006, one of those being a shot from inside Liverpool's own half. Alonso also struck from inside Liverpool's half as he scored the 2nd goal in 2-0 victory against Newcastle on 20 September 2006.

He was signed by Rafael Benítez, the then newly appointed manager of Liverpool, from Real Sociedad for a fee of £10.5m. Alonso is considered by many to be one of the best midfielders in European football and has played for Spain at Euro 2004 and the 2006 World Cup.

[Sabre]

BigMick just so you dont think I made up the term deep lying playmaker, this is off Wikipedia (and I didn't write it honest 

Xabier Alonso Olano, commonly known as Xabi Alonso (born 25 November 1981 in Tolosa, Spain), is a Basque footballer who currently plays his club football for Liverpool F.C. in England. He wears the number 14 shirt at Liverpool and is a central midfielder, often playing as a deep-lying playmaker. Alonso has gained the reputation as being one of the best passers of the ball in the world. He also has a reputation for scoring spectacular long range goals, scoring two long range efforts against Luton Town in the FA Cup 3rd round, January 2006, one of those being a shot from inside Liverpool's own half. Alonso also struck from inside Liverpool's half as he scored the 2nd goal in 2-0 victory against Newcastle on 20 September 2006.

He was signed by Rafael Benítez, the then newly appointed manager of Liverpool, from Real Sociedad for a fee of £10.5m. Alonso is considered by many to be one of the best midfielders in European football and has played for Spain at Euro 2004 and the 2006 World Cup.

Yes well, don't rely too much in wikipedia, it's done with the edition of contributors and is often full of mistakes because the contributors have not the sufficient knowledge. You can notice that when you know a lot about a topic and then you query what wikipedia says about the topic you know.

The Spanish wikipedia says a lot of bóllocks about Xabi Alonso aswell, and the LFC entry of the spanish wikipedia, you would find it ridiculous, if you see what I mean.

For instance in wikipedia they do not do the research work of knowing that with all the extras of reaching CL finals and all that the total sum was of 14M quid. Wikipedia is a good, free thing, but shouldn't be regarded as the bible.

Meaning, under no circunstances rely on it if you want to use accurate information.

Any other source in which they describe him that way, or that they describe the role of "deep-lying-playmaker" for that matter?

[account deleted by request]

Xabi Alonso Classy deep-lying playmaker in Andrea Pirlo mould but has not reached that level this season. Left out on Tuesday but likely to be involved from start against Milan 7

Times online

[account deleted by request]

Deep-lying playmaker
Some central midfielders prefer to set up an attack from a withdrawn position. Players with such attributes are often coined deep-lying playmakers, mainly because of their ability to spread play and dictate the game from a withdrawn position. Due to their weaknesses in their defensive aspects, some have to be supported by holding midfielders. Players in this mould include Andrea Pirlo (AC Milan and Italy; supported by Gennaro Gattuso), Barry Ferguson (Rangers & Scotland), Xabi Alonso (Liverpool and Spain; supported by Mohamed Sissoko or Javier Mascherano), Xavi (Barcelona and Spain), David Pizzaro (AS Roma and Chile; supported by Daniele de Rossi), Lucas Leiva (Grêmio/Liverpool and Brazil) and Michael Carrick (Manchester United and England).

This is possibly one of the newest roles in modern football tactics. It is often likened to an evolved version of the old-school sweeper. Although it still remains unclear as to who first started playing in this role, Josep Guardiola has been credited as the player who popularised it.

Try searching yourself next time

[Sabre]

No, I have no doubts you haven't made up the concept, I was absolutely certain of that. But you've awaken my curiosity! I'll search about that misterious definition of a player now, the terminology I'm used to doesn't pick that concept as a role.

[aCe']

No, I have no doubts you haven't made up the concept, I was absolutely certain of that. But you've awaken my curiosity! I'll search about that misterious definition of a player now, the terminology I'm used to doesn't pick that concept as a role.

drama queen