LFC2007 wrote:Penguins wrote:plz, gimme a break.
Brazil has not had a great normal central mid for years which is why Kleberson played for Brazil.
They had a attacking left mid as central midfielder last world cup ffs!
(Ze Roberto)
Kleberson, Gilberto Silva are just average players being passengers on a great offensive brazilian national team.
And plz, Kleberson had the talent, just not suited for England?
haha.
Where is he now?
He left England, so why isn't he back in the national team?
He has talent u said?
Overrated, overhyped passenger, that's what he was/is!
Just by hearing journalists mentioning Lucas in the same context as Dunga, Socrates etc tells me how they are craving for a great brazilian mid cause after Dunga there has been NOONE.
And NO, Kaka, Ronaldinho is not a regular central midfield.
And All I am saying Lucas is an unknown quantity in England is cause every player not played in England is an unknown quantity. Obvious!
But he is not an unknown quantity like Paletta and some kind of unkown gamble who might come of or not.
Noone shells out that money on a 20 year old if he isn't considered one of the hottest youngest players around.
Plz check which players that have won the brazilian league player of the year in the past.
Practically all is/was quality. Is kleberson there? NO!
Lucas is without a doubt a future mainstay in the brazil national team. Journalists and the players in gremio are saying he is the player that has taken them far in the south american cup and in the league.
juventus, man utd, inter milan, Ac milan, Fiorentina, Liverpool all these clubs were after him after scouts stationed over there recommended him.
But hey, they're all wrong. just another unknown quantity
And the brazilan league isn't some backyard league, the players that have played there over the years have been great, and they have produced some of the most gifted players in the world ever.
And about Sissoko.
So after masch arrival, how do u interpret Momo's body language and overall performance on the pitch?
Atrocious is a good word. He has seemed preasurred and has not done the business.
Alonso has taken it much better.
He has in the latter games been one of the better players when Rafa has rested most of the 1st team. And he responed well in the CL semis by performing really well after he came on in that game.
Momo hasn't had one good game since masch came!
Kleberson played for Brazil because he fit into their system, he had the talent, even Scolari says he was the 'driving force behind their success in 2002'. Even when he left Man Utd, Ferguson said 'the boy had talent, he just couldn't settle in England'.
That happens sometimes, players need to settle into a country and a system. With Kleberson it didn't happen.
I don't care whether he's as talented as Dunga or not, he played in that world cup side, and played better than any of their midfielders, he was the foundation for their success in that year.
How you don't see the likes of Rivaldo, Emerson, Leonardo, Juninho pernambucano, Gilberto Silva, Edmilson and Kaka as 'good midfielders' is beyond me.
Brazil don't play a 4-4-2, they play a holding midfielder and a diamond ahead of that.
You rarely get passengers in World cups, you obviously didn't watch Brazil in 2002 as you'd have seen the contribution made by both Gilberto and Kleberson.
I think you're in a minority if you consider Gilberto an average player, a player who was subsequently bought by Arsenal after impressing Wenger. Likewise with Emerson and Edmilson, I suppose they're average aswell?! Players who have won Italian and Spanish leagues and European Cups, players who play for two of the most successful teams on earth.
Average?! Get real, these guys do a job, they may not be in the same mould as Kaka and may not be as spectacular as Ronaldinho but they do a job. Even if you watch Madrid you can see the difference a performing Emerson makes to them.
Kleberson isn't in the national team because at the moment he isn't performing, and he hasn't settled at a club. That dosn't mean he isn't talented, because he is. You don't lose talent after a bad spell in England and Turkey!
He is not overrated, he's a guy who did a job, he was not spectacular in 2002, he did his JOB, and in that world cup he was very successful at that JOB.
No great midfielders since Dunga?!
Brazil Midfielders since Dunga:
Rivaldo
Kaka
Emerson
Ze Roberto
Kleberson
Juninho P
Edmilson
Denilson
Belletti
Ronaldinho
They're not all in the same mould as Dunga but most have been EFFECTIVE, great individuals don't make great teams. You seem to have a problem in understanding this.
Even you disagree with the assessment of Scolari himself that Kleberson was 'the driving force' behind the team in 2002!
You don't appreciate the work that the less spectacular of players do.
So you are basing your assessment of Lucas on what Journalists have said, just like the many many journalists who compare every Argentinian player to Maradona do! How often were they right?
Not very often.
He is just as much an unknown quantity as Kleberson is.
Winning the Brazilian league player of the year is an indication that this player can cut the mustard in BRAZIL.
You are wrong when you say 'practically' all the winners of that award were quality.
There are plenty in recent years who have not set Europe alight:
Djalminha,Edmundo, Alex, Edilson, Marcelinho.
I suppose all of these were 'practically all quality' aswell. Kleberson is just as talented as any of these players. It also depends on the level of competition at the time, Kleberson was competing for that award against the likes of Kaka and Ronaldinho. Did Ronaldinho win that award? NO!
Point proven.
'Noone shells out that money on a 20 year old if he isn't considered one of the hottest youngest players around'
Just like Barca did with Rochemback.
Just like Wenger did with Jeffers.
What GREAT players they turned out to be!
'Lucas is without doubt a future mainstay in the Brazilian national team'
Of course he COULD be, but there is certainly a degree of doubt as to whether he WILL be, just like many other young prospects. Kleberson was a mainstay in the Brazil national team before he came to England. I sure hope Lucas is a mainstay in their squad in the future, but you are making a judgement based on superlatives from Brazilian journalists. There is a degree of doubt with any player, especially with one a) so young and b) from South America.
'juventus, man utd, inter milan, Ac milan, Fiorentina, Liverpool all these clubs were after him after scouts stationed over there recommended him.
But hey, they're all wrong. just another unknown quantity'
You seem to like contradicting yourself:
'And All I am saying Lucas is an unknown quantity'
Of course scouts get it wrong sometimes, they can say he is a talented player, but they can't say whether he will cut it in Europe or not! I suppose all those scouts were right about Rochemback aswell!
'And the brazilan league isn't some backyard league, the players that have played there over the years have been great, and they have produced some of the most gifted players in the world ever'
I never said it was a 'backyard league', please quote me on that one Penguins. But it certainly hasn't the same quality, pace or tactical organisation of European leagues. Why do you think most of South America's best exports play in Europe?
'And about Sissoko.
So after masch arrival, how do u interpret Momo's body language and overall performance on the pitch?
Atrocious is a good word. He has seemed preasurred and has not done the business.
Alonso has taken it much better.
He has in the latter games been one of the better players when Rafa has rested most of the 1st team. And he responed well in the CL semis by performing really well after he came on in that game.
Momo hasn't had one good game since masch came'
Did you not read what I said about Mascherano and Sissoko?!!:
'Do you not think that the performances of Mascherano could perhaps, maybe just be the reason why Sissoko hasn't been playing as much? The same reason why Alonso was dropped'
Mascherano's played 10 games, are you off your HEEED son, Mascherano has been PLAYING WELL, Sissoko has not, why do you think he is not in the team?? Because of his body Language?!
Do you think he's gonna be happy not playing! No, but he'll get his head down and try and change that. I wouldn't expect his body language to be good, he's just been pipped by Mascherano!
That's what COMPETITION for places is about.