Liverpool FC Forum

[Thommo's perm]

I'd take him back. I believe that in a harmonic working environment, he could complete the job he started and continue improving us (as he did between 2004 - 2009) until we eventually win the title

He does not work in harmony. He causes dis-harmony.
His last 3 jobs have finished accrimoniously. Its his nature. His...way.

[LFC2007]

I'd say that Rafa left a better first team purely because of Torres and Reina. Otherwise I would say it's pretty damn close, with Ged leaving a more solid defence in place, the midfields being of a similar level and a lack of quality striking options present in both cases (I would personally have Cisse and Baros over Ngog and Babel). The point is though that both left having made major mistakes (Ged: Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, Cisse. Rafa: Babel, Keane, Dossena, Aquilani). A better hit rate and we probably would have had more success on the pitch, or at least we might have avoided these periods of major rebuilding.

[burjennio]

Sorry but how is Murphy vs Aquilani a draw?

[SouthCoastShankly]

I'd take him back. I believe that in a harmonic working environment, he could complete the job he started and continue improving us (as he did between 2004 - 2009) until we eventually win the title

Re: Andy Gray’s statement during coverage of the Villa game that the squad GH left RB was certainly better than the squad RB left RH (and also an alarming number of people on this forum who seem to regard RB as a complete failure [having taken us to 2 champions’ league finals, won one, an FA cup and 4 points short of the premier league title on a shoe string budget working for 2 cowboys and 2 successive bellend Chief Execs] and GH as a legend. Fair enough, we must be nice as he became ill managing us but he was still as much as a disaster for most of his tenure as RB was for the last year of his – with RB working under much more difficult circumstances it has to be said)

Squad comparison.........

Goalkeepers

Dudek vs Reina… RB (no contest)
Kirkland vs Cavalieri… RB (at least diego’s back worked)

Defenders

Hyypia vs Skrtel… GH (no contest)
Finnan vs Johnson… RB (GJ overpriced, but still offers as standard what SF could only dream of)
Riise vs Insua… GH (criminal that our only fit left back was 21)
Carra ’04 vs Carra ’10… RB (lets be honest, who was JC before RB turned up and turned him into a proper centre-back?)
Henchoz vs Agger… RB (no contest)
Traore vs Kyriakos… RB (no contest)


Midfielders

Murphy vs Aquilani… DRAW (could pick either. A fit AA every time but not always possible – although I don’t think he’s been injured this season so far has he?)
Gerrard ’04 vs Gerrard ’10… GH (hands down)
Biscan vs Lucas… RB (LL has already surpassed the standard IB was at his peak, and will only improve. PS. IB’s best games came under RB)
Kewell vs Benayoun… RB (Kewell was a crock – and I know what you’re thinking, but Aquilani is nowhere near as notorious for successive unrelated injuries)
Hamann vs Mascherano… DRAW (purely because it was inevitable that JM wanted to leave – but £15m would be available for a replacement. I’d take £15m over eine aging Kaiser)
Smicer vs Riera… RB (forget his goal in Istanbul, what did VS ever actually do besides fall over the ball?)
Cheyrou vs Maxi… RB (BC’s best games came under RB)
Diao vs Spearing… RB x2 (f*ck me)
Welsh vs El Zhar/Plessis… DRAW (whatever)

Attackers

Owen vs Torres… RB (judas’s contract was allowed to run down by GH, besides… El f*cking Nino)
Heskey vs Kuyt… RB (and I hate DK – that tells you something)
Diouf vs Babel… RB (and they said Rafa was cracking up?!)
Baros vs Ngog… DRAW (Baros better at the time but Ngog will develop into a better player and has a higher relative market value than Baros did at the time)
Cisse vs Jovanovic… DRAW (personally, I’d pick the one with 2 structurally sound legs intact but we have to be objective here – MJ hasn’t proven anything yet)
Le Tallec vs Pacheco… RB (based on potential and relative market value)
Pongolle vs Eccleston… GH (based on the transfer fees FSP has since commanded which we lost out on)
Neil Mellor vs ? ? ? ... GH

GH wins = 5 (-1 more for Diao)
RB wins = 15
DRAW = 5


…. So even if GH scraped a last minute winner in most of them draws, RB still wins by a mile! GH’s last few wins (fringe attackers) are also a bit cheap. RB left much a much better youth team behind too.


OK, that’s what I’ve spend time looking at and concluding. Could somebody please give me some justification for those believing GH left a better squad than RB?

Haha that has to be the most biased comparison I've ever seen. Talk about pro Benitez agenda!

Most of those comparisons are designed to enable a winning total for Benitez.

Comical to say the least.

[PabloAimar]

I'd take him back. I believe that in a harmonic working environment, he could complete the job he started and continue improving us (as he did between 2004 - 2009) until we eventually win the title

Re: Andy Gray’s statement during coverage of the Villa game that the squad GH left RB was certainly better than the squad RB left RH (and also an alarming number of people on this forum who seem to regard RB as a complete failure [having taken us to 2 champions’ league finals, won one, an FA cup and 4 points short of the premier league title on a shoe string budget working for 2 cowboys and 2 successive bellend Chief Execs] and GH as a legend. Fair enough, we must be nice as he became ill managing us but he was still as much as a disaster for most of his tenure as RB was for the last year of his – with RB working under much more difficult circumstances it has to be said)

Squad comparison.........

Goalkeepers

Dudek vs Reina… RB (no contest)
Kirkland vs Cavalieri… RB (at least diego’s back worked)

Defenders

Hyypia vs Skrtel… GH (no contest)
Finnan vs Johnson… RB (GJ overpriced, but still offers as standard what SF could only dream of)
Riise vs Insua… GH (criminal that our only fit left back was 21)
Carra ’04 vs Carra ’10… RB (lets be honest, who was JC before RB turned up and turned him into a proper centre-back?)
Henchoz vs Agger… RB (no contest)
Traore vs Kyriakos… RB (no contest)


Midfielders

Murphy vs Aquilani… DRAW (could pick either. A fit AA every time but not always possible – although I don’t think he’s been injured this season so far has he?)
Gerrard ’04 vs Gerrard ’10… GH (hands down)
Biscan vs Lucas… RB (LL has already surpassed the standard IB was at his peak, and will only improve. PS. IB’s best games came under RB)
Kewell vs Benayoun… RB (Kewell was a crock – and I know what you’re thinking, but Aquilani is nowhere near as notorious for successive unrelated injuries)
Hamann vs Mascherano… DRAW (purely because it was inevitable that JM wanted to leave – but £15m would be available for a replacement. I’d take £15m over eine aging Kaiser)
Smicer vs Riera… RB (forget his goal in Istanbul, what did VS ever actually do besides fall over the ball?)
Cheyrou vs Maxi… RB (BC’s best games came under RB)
Diao vs Spearing… RB x2 (f*ck me)
Welsh vs El Zhar/Plessis… DRAW (whatever)

Attackers

Owen vs Torres… RB (judas’s contract was allowed to run down by GH, besides… El f*cking Nino)
Heskey vs Kuyt… RB (and I hate DK – that tells you something)
Diouf vs Babel… RB (and they said Rafa was cracking up?!)
Baros vs Ngog… DRAW (Baros better at the time but Ngog will develop into a better player and has a higher relative market value than Baros did at the time)
Cisse vs Jovanovic… DRAW (personally, I’d pick the one with 2 structurally sound legs intact but we have to be objective here – MJ hasn’t proven anything yet)
Le Tallec vs Pacheco… RB (based on potential and relative market value)
Pongolle vs Eccleston… GH (based on the transfer fees FSP has since commanded which we lost out on)
Neil Mellor vs ? ? ? ... GH

GH wins = 5 (-1 more for Diao)
RB wins = 15
DRAW = 5


…. So even if GH scraped a last minute winner in most of them draws, RB still wins by a mile! GH’s last few wins (fringe attackers) are also a bit cheap. RB left much a much better youth team behind too.


OK, that’s what I’ve spend time looking at and concluding. Could somebody please give me some justification for those believing GH left a better squad than RB?

Haha that has to be the most biased comparison I've ever seen. Talk about pro Benitez agenda!

Most of those comparisons are designed to enable a winning total for Benitez.

Comical to say the least.

correct the bias then? better still... carry on chuckling to yourself which proves my point about 'anti-rafa' supporters clutching onto anything to use as a stick to beat him with - point in note: only in the past few months (ie. when he joined villa) have people begun reminiscing make-belief memories of how good things were under houllier.

which of benitez's players would you pair cheyrou, biscan, traore, smicer, diao, heskey, diouf with instead?? in case you've forgotten, these were first team players in houllier's final season - go look up how many 1st team appearances they made between them.

benitez's first team flops were often players who arrived with much expectation but couldn't perform when we needed them to: keane, dossena, babel, aquilani, etc. compare that to the cr*p houllier brought in who everyone except him knew were sh*te from the off.

EDIT: and no, i've tried not to be biased but actually pair up similar types of player where possible. seriously, how would you alter it to show anything other than the squad RB left was better than GH's?

[PabloAimar]

Sorry but how is Murphy vs Aquilani a draw?

you're right... danny murphy was on the market for relegation candidates for a fee of around £2M in 2004. Aquilani is likely to transfer for a £16M fee ...its a no brainer

[PabloAimar]

I'd take him back. I believe that in a harmonic working environment, he could complete the job he started and continue improving us (as he did between 2004 - 2009) until we eventually win the title

He does not work in harmony. He causes dis-harmony.
His last 3 jobs have finished accrimoniously. Its his nature. His...way.

that's a fair point.... but things weren't that bad while he was here until the beginning of 2009 were they?

[burjennio]

Sorry but how is Murphy vs Aquilani a draw?

you're right... danny murphy was on the market for relegation candidates for a fee of around £2M in 2004. Aquilani is likely to transfer for a £16M fee ...its a no brainer

no dude, the murph scored 3 winning goals at old trafford and aquilani's entire lfc career was a blink and you'll miss it half season of 60mins and subs appearances. There is no Liverpool fan out there besides yourself is gonna say AA is a better Liverpool player than Spud. The rest of your list is contentious and open to debate but this one aint gonna fly.

[PabloAimar]

Sorry but how is Murphy vs Aquilani a draw?

you're right... danny murphy was on the market for relegation candidates for a fee of around £2M in 2004. Aquilani is likely to transfer for a £16M fee ...its a no brainer

no dude, the murph scored 3 winning goals at old trafford and aquilani's entire lfc career was a blink and you'll miss it half season of 60mins and subs appearances. There is no Liverpool fan out there besides yourself is gonna say AA is a better Liverpool player than Spud. The rest of your list is contentious and open to debate but this one aint gonna fly.

yep, i'm aware of that but i've based my judgement on what murphy went on to achieve versus what aquilani could/will potentially achieve.... he's doing well in italy and although he didn't play much for us (due to injuries/fitness), when he did play he was a class act.

[roberto green]

Sorry but how is Murphy vs Aquilani a draw?

you're right... danny murphy was on the market for relegation candidates for a fee of around £2M in 2004. Aquilani is likely to transfer for a £16M fee ...its a no brainer

no dude, the murph scored 3 winning goals at old trafford and aquilani's entire lfc career was a blink and you'll miss it half season of 60mins and subs appearances. There is no Liverpool fan out there besides yourself is gonna say AA is a better Liverpool player than Spud. The rest of your list is contentious and open to debate but this one aint gonna fly.

If the question is who is the better player in general, it's a no brainer Aqualani wins hands down,

If the question is who was the best player for Liverpool it would be Danny Murphy.

who knows if Aqua had a proper chance to shine he could of well been a class player for us.

[burjennio]

I watched him at the weekend and he had a relatively quiet game away at Chievo, but Juve spent most of the 2nd half down to 10 men. Im looking forward to see a good bit more of him in the next few months now that Ive bit the bullet and ordered ESPN.

[parchpea]

Murphy has been a consistent prem player for a number of years and Acquilani couldnt manage that for a month over here. Acqua may be a decent Serie A player and have a good career there but if you where looking for a lad to do a good, reliable job at Liverpool Murphy would prob edge him even now even with age against him.

[Thommo's perm]

I'd take him back. I believe that in a harmonic working environment, he could complete the job he started and continue improving us (as he did between 2004 - 2009) until we eventually win the title

He does not work in harmony. He causes dis-harmony.
His last 3 jobs have finished accrimoniously. Its his nature. His...way.

that's a fair point.... but things weren't that bad while he was here until the beginning of 2009 were they?

It started for me when Pako left...

[Kharhaz]

Squad comparison.........

Goalkeepers

Dudek vs Reina… RB (no contest)
Kirkland vs Cavalieri… RB (at least diego’s back worked)

Defenders

Hyypia vs Skrtel… GH (no contest)
Finnan vs Johnson… RB (GJ overpriced, but still offers as standard what SF could only dream of)
Riise vs Insua… GH (criminal that our only fit left back was 21)
Carra ’04 vs Carra ’10… RB (lets be honest, who was JC before RB turned up and turned him into a proper centre-back?)
Henchoz vs Agger… RB (no contest)
Traore vs Kyriakos… RB (no contest)


Midfielders

Murphy vs Aquilani… DRAW (could pick either. A fit AA every time but not always possible – although I don’t think he’s been injured this season so far has he?)
Gerrard ’04 vs Gerrard ’10… GH (hands down)
Biscan vs Lucas… RB (LL has already surpassed the standard IB was at his peak, and will only improve. PS. IB’s best games came under RB)
Kewell vs Benayoun… RB (Kewell was a crock – and I know what you’re thinking, but Aquilani is nowhere near as notorious for successive unrelated injuries)
Hamann vs Mascherano… DRAW (purely because it was inevitable that JM wanted to leave – but £15m would be available for a replacement. I’d take £15m over eine aging Kaiser)
Smicer vs Riera… RB (forget his goal in Istanbul, what did VS ever actually do besides fall over the ball?)
Cheyrou vs Maxi… RB (BC’s best games came under RB)
Diao vs Spearing… RB x2 (f*ck me)
Welsh vs El Zhar/Plessis… DRAW (whatever)

Attackers

Owen vs Torres… RB (judas’s contract was allowed to run down by GH, besides… El f*cking Nino)
Heskey vs Kuyt… RB (and I hate DK – that tells you something)
Diouf vs Babel… RB (and they said Rafa was cracking up?!)
Baros vs Ngog… DRAW (Baros better at the time but Ngog will develop into a better player and has a higher relative market value than Baros did at the time)
Cisse vs Jovanovic… DRAW (personally, I’d pick the one with 2 structurally sound legs intact but we have to be objective here – MJ hasn’t proven anything yet)
Le Tallec vs Pacheco… RB (based on potential and relative market value)
Pongolle vs Eccleston… GH (based on the transfer fees FSP has since commanded which we lost out on)
Neil Mellor vs ? ? ? ... GH

Dudek v Reina = Draw. Although towards the end Dudek seemed to decline in the matches he was played, when he signed for us at the time, he gave the team a reassurance and provided us with a stable keeper that we had been lacking for a long time. Also, if Rafa is a legend for bringing us our 5th, then most definately Dudek can be given credit also. In that match against Milan, I still cannot fathom how he kept Shevchenko from scoring there winner.

Finnan v Johnson = Finnan. Mr reliable. Nothing fancy, just did the job. We should have kept him and saved us some money. Johnson offers us something going forward, which is all well and good, but surely the same amount could have been spent on an actual winger?

Henchoz v Agger = Draw. Again, for the same reasons as Dudek, Henchoz came in to shore up a dodgy defence and did a brilliant job along with Hyypia. Aggers injuries are going against him, a brilliant defender on his day, it has just been so long since we have seen him.

Heskey vs Kuyt… RB (and I hate DK – that tells you something)

How can you hate Dirk Kuyt? he works his socks off, and his attitude puts a lot of other players to shame. He may not be everyones cup of tea as a player, but for me he offers a hell of a lot more to the team than he is given credit for.

Cisse v Jovanovic = Cisse. Unlucky with the broken legs and wasnt given a chance by Rafa to prove himself.

[killerp]

rafa just got the sack from inter

Yes it is confirmed. El Magnifico is on for another many million pounds payout.
Some cynics might say hes doing this on purpose to become so rich he can retire before hes 50?
I wonder...

Liverpool still has some money in the bank that Rafa may want for his retirement