Liverpool FC Forum

[112-1077774096]

Even if it's true Alonso has been below his best that would be just a bad season of a player that has showed what's he's capable of this 3 years, and when he was a newbie, he was very praised aswell. More than Mascherano, even.

If u really want to look at it.....the fact is alonso has had 2 sub-par seasons.....

I mean he had a good 1st season. But his 2nd season was very average. His 3rd season was really below average.

Don't get me wrong....i don't want rafa to sell alonso. I am in the "pro-squad depth" camp myself. But if Barca offer 20 million, i would take it.

Just saying it as how i see alonso playing on TV.

His 1st season (with mediocre  players like baros, pongolle, mellor, cisse..etc)..he was immense. He simply controlled and dictated the whole midfield.

But compare that with  his performance in the 2nd and 3rd seasons...somethings amiss..

to be fair i havent actually seen anyone saying we should sell him, its just been interpreted that way by people on here with a different agenda.

i would sell him if it was for the good of the club, if we were able to build a better team from the deal then its good for us. sadly some people think that some of us are on a 'alonso out' rant when that isnt the case.

i am trying to look at simply, we can manage without alonso as things stand and if him going can strenghten the forward line without weakening the team overall then its a good mover for us, the club comes first and to be honest our team failed last season, of course thats not down to all players, some performed to a very high standard, while others didnt, this affects the whole team and we went on to win nothing.

i know we will never get a team with every player playing out of their skin every week, thats just pie in the sky, but as a unit we need to perform, sadly at the moment we are not a unit as we have nobody scoring goals, the forwar line needs to be strenghtened and if that means a midfielder going then surely thats good, no matter who that midfelder may be.

so the question is which midfielder, well gerrard isnt going anywhere, and in my opinion both sissoko and alonso had bad seasons so its one of them, we have a replacement for either in masherano, gerrard can get back to doing what he does best in the centre and everyone is happy.

if we can use alonso in a swap or sell him for big money that will get us what we need without weakening the team as a unit then it has to be good.

[GunGod]

OK - for the cretins once again:

In his first season when he broke his ankle, our team missed Alonso more than any other player, and the wins/losses proves this.

FACT.

Rafa Benitez sees him as instrumental to the side, and has said he, along with Gerrard, JC and Reina are the players he sees as the spine of the team.

FACT.

Our clean-sheets record is as much Xabi's doing as any other member of the defense.

FACT, and if you wish to dispute this - look up his tackling stats on Opta. I read them in the paper a few weeks back, and he's had a lot bigger impact than you realise. I can't be a*sed to trawl through the net just to shut a bunch of tw*ts up.

Xabi is the only member of our squad able to regularly dictate the tempo of a game, and allow the team to play to it's strengths.

FACT.

Xabi is the brain on the pitch, and it's his tactical and positional awareness that allows our fullbacks to go forward and help the attack, our centrebacks to challenge for offensive corners, our players to have an outlet when under pressure, and, despite his brilliance at spotting a long pass, he can also do the simple things to great effect.

These, my friend, are FACTS.

If you wish to dispute them, all I can suggest is that you actually watch him, rather than beating your meat over Gerrard for 90 minutes.

Erm, guys...I think we can end our argument with Lando already..because it's pretty obvious he doesn't understand the definition of 'facts'.

It's pretty embarassing for him indeed, going on about 'facts' only for us to realize he doesn't understand what he himself is talking about. So lets all stop laughing at him after I give him a simple lesson in differentiating between terms.

Fact 1: Humans need oxygen to live.

Fact 2: Liverpool beat Chelsea in the Champions league semi-finals 2007.

Opinion 1 (more accurately, Hypothesis 1): "In his first season when he broke his ankle, our team missed Alonso more than any other player, and the wins/losses proves this.."

Opinion 2: "Our clean-sheets record is as much Xabi's doing as any other member of the defense."

Opinion 3: "Xabi is the brain on the pitch."


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Now why is Opinion 1, an opinion? 

The win/losses as cited by our young Lando which 'proves' his point does not prove anything at all. For there all more then 1 independent varible which can cause a change in the dependent variable. Simply put, in those games that we lost w/o Alonso, we might have also lost other players; the coach's formation selection played into the opposition's hands; the weather suited the opposition more etc etc the list goes on.

Until you have calculated every single variable (which is hardly possible) only to discover the hard truth that Alonso's absence is the cause for defeats, then only can you cite it as a 'fact'.

Now why are Opinions 2 and 3, just Opinions?

Try to apply the logic as explained above. This will be your homework for the week young Lando. 


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P.S. Honestly I can't believe you said "Xabi is the brain on the pitch" and proclaimed condescendingly "THESE, my friend, are facts."

ROFL.

Excuse the unbridled laughter.

You type like an intellectual, but you miss the points entirely. I'd have thought it was an absurdly simple premise:

Our team did not play as well, losing many matches, when Alonso was not in the team. The same cannot be said to the same degree about any other player on our books. This is FACT. It happened. Get over yourself you pompous little blurt.

As for the clean sheet quote - the opta stats show that he made more tackles than the vast majority of the team, and unless I am mistaken, that helps towards maintaining a clean sheet, does it not? Do not try and sh*t your way out of the problem, knobhead.

And as for the statement "Xabi is the brain on the pitch", had you bothered to quote the rest of the paragraph, even you and your tiny, tiny brain would have realised that this was merely an observation, leading to the FACT that " it's his tactical and positional awareness that allows our fullbacks to go forward and help the attack, our centrebacks to challenge for offensive corners, our players to have an outlet when under pressure, and, despite his brilliance at spotting a long pass, he can also do the simple things to great effect." THEY are the facts in that point, you f*cking demented tw*t. The level of misplaced confidence on here is astounding.

Listen here, you buffoon - do not even attempt to belittle me, when it is plainly obvious you have all the mental capacity of a pigmi's thimble. Get yourself a job at the S*n - they could use a c*nt like you who conveniently omits the full story in favour of some bag of sh*t that backs up your retarded point of view.

Might I suggest you get yourself down to the nearest Primary school first, though, and learn how to read the English language and understand all of it's nuances?

P.S.

See what I did there? I showed your outwardly "triumphant" post up for what it was - a load of sh*t missing all depth and content.

Imbecile.

AHAHAHA mate you really never fail to amuse me.

So puncturing every sentence with an insult makes you feel empowered doesn't it. It makes you feel that you can worm your way out of every losing argument doesn't it?

Now now, whatever points you have made about Alonso I have not implied they are wrong. But since you were the one challenging others for 'FACTS' then you better understand what the word 'FACT' means before you even employ it.

You were the one who started calling for FACTS to be employed yet you give us subjective opinions. "Alonso is the brain blah blah blah....allows the centerbacks to challenge for offensive corners blah blah." You might just be right, about the presence of Alonso allowing CBs to move forward but that's not the point. The point is you have to prove it with evidence before you start shouting its a 'FACT'. Now just show us some form of illustration showing the movement of Alonso and the centerbacks during corners will ya? That, is what we call evidence in the adult world.

Before you prove your statements with evidence none of what you said are "FACTS."

I deliberately left education out of my response to your post as education levels has nothing to do here in a football forum. But since you amusingly started asking me to go to Primary school, then perhaps you should recalll that in Primary school Science lessons you should have been taught the difference between a Hypothesis (judging from your replies I doubt you even know the meaning of this), a Theory and ultimately, a FACT. Or perhaps you should attend an University to learn how to construct a proper argument which is backed by substantial evidence.

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Unless you strip away your meaningless vulgarities in your next possible reply, I really couldn't be bothered to reply to you anymore. For you don't seem mature enough to carry any sort of constructive debate.

I suppose too, that after this thread most of the forummers here have finally realized what sort of character you are and what limited amounts of credibility you have.

P.S. If yours were an essay, even though you don't even know how to argue nor substantiate your points, alright I would still give you a D+ for sheer effort. 

Or perhaps in your deluded Lando's world everything you think/said is a fact to yourself? 

[Judge]

Cracking thread grommet

[Sabre]

Even if it's true Alonso has been below his best that would be just a bad season of a player that has showed what's he's capable of this 3 years, and when he was a newbie, he was very praised aswell. More than Mascherano, even.

If u really want to look at it.....the fact is alonso has had 2 sub-par seasons.....

I mean he had a good 1st season. But his 2nd season was very average. His 3rd season was really below average.

Don't get me wrong....i don't want rafa to sell alonso. I am in the "pro-squad depth" camp myself. But if Barca offer 20 million, i would take it.

Just saying it as how i see alonso playing on TV.

His 1st season (with mediocre  players like baros, pongolle, mellor, cisse..etc)..he was immense. He simply controlled and dictated the whole midfield.

But compare that with  his performance in the 2nd and 3rd seasons...somethings amiss..

I cannot argue that The_Rock, because that's how you see it, and it's nice.

However, I guarantee you that Xabi and his teammates think he has learnt a lot as a player, and has matured a lot as a player, I'm referring to Rafa, Reina and Morientes quotes here. So maybe it's the case that first season people was impressed only to "chill down" a lil bit later!

I think it's a common thing in football teams. Probably Mascherano's praises will be smaller at the end of next season. Smaller in the next, etc. This is pure especulation eh? I might be perfectly wrong, and maybe it's true his performance has been worse as the time passes, despite he's gained experience.

Anyhow, no matter if Rafa sells or keeps him, he'll have a good plan.

[112-1077774096]

but rafa, reina and morientes are not really going to say he had a stinker, they will give good soundbites about collegues so i dont think we can read too much into team mates comments, its like the vote of confidence given to managers just before they are booted out of the door.

of course alonso has more experinece than he did 2 years ago, that cant be questioned, what can be questioned however are his performanes, were they poor, or where they still ok but seemed poor compared to his first season

[mungi]

Alonso will stay. And thats final :P

[66-1112520797]

AHAHAHA mate you really never fail to amuse me.

So puncturing every sentence with an insult makes you feel empowered doesn't it. It makes you feel that you can worm your way out of every losing argument doesn't it?

Now now, whatever points you have made about Alonso I have not implied they are wrong. But since you were the one challenging others for 'FACTS' then you better understand what the word 'FACT' means before you even employ it.

You were the one who started calling for FACTS to be employed yet you give us subjective opinions. "Alonso is the brain blah blah blah....allows the centerbacks to challenge for offensive corners blah blah." You might just be right, about the presence of Alonso allowing CBs to move forward but that's not the point. The point is you have to prove it with evidence before you start shouting its a 'FACT'. Now just show us some form of illustration showing the movement of Alonso and the centerbacks during corners will ya? That, is what we call evidence in the adult world.

Before you prove your statements with evidence none of what you said are "FACTS."

I deliberately left education out of my response to your post as education levels has nothing to do here in a football forum. But since you amusingly started asking me to go to Primary school, then perhaps you should recalll that in Primary school Science lessons you should have been taught the difference between a Hypothesis (judging from your replies I doubt you even know the meaning of this), a Theory and ultimately, a FACT. Or perhaps you should attend an University to learn how to construct a proper argument which is backed by substantial evidence.

---------------------------------------------------------

Unless you strip away your meaningless vulgarities in your next possible reply, I really couldn't be bothered to reply to you anymore. For you don't seem mature enough to carry any sort of constructive debate.

I suppose too, that after this thread most of the forummers here have finally realized what sort of character you are and what limited amounts of credibility you have.

P.S. If yours were an essay, even though you don't even know how to argue nor substantiate your points, alright I would still give you a D+ for sheer effort.   

Or perhaps in your deluded Lando's world everything you think/said is a fact to yourself?   
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Good post mate.

I think most of whats been said about the original subject on Alonso has been covered, even though it descended into a dog fight. Most people were able to intially put there opinions accross in a civilised manner. It really is a shame if one or two people cant grasp or look at the other side of a debate from an objective view, and will here nothing against what they think is right or fact.

On a lighter note

And on the lines of something like this, ' Mick told me I'm funny enough to be on T.v' Plllleeeeaaaase

[112-1077774096]

Alonso will stay. And thats final :P

so all this fighting has been for no reason     

[mungi]

exactly, so what alonso has had a average season, the same could be said for almost 3/4 of the liverpool squad

[Sabre]

Barcelona press states that the main goal of the holding mid signing up, is YAYA TOuré the Monaco Player note. In a side article, they state that De Rossi and Alonso are also targets after Toure

This is a classic mistake of Real Madrid and Barcelona. They touch many players, and for players like Xabi is very important to be really wanted. Anyhow, no Eto'o - Xabi swap rumours anywhere here.

Wonder where the Daily mirror get their news.

[Scottbot]

Wonder where the Daily mirror get their news.[/quote]

They pretty much make it up like all the rest do mate. the only time you can really believe something might be about to happen is when at least 3 of our papers carry the same story.

We're basically a bunch of suckers who will half-believe anything they write!!!!!

[66-1112520797]

Well, we may aswell pi$$off what we read in England, and get Sabre to correspond us all the FACTS.

[112-1077774096]

i am sure the spanish press also talk , to be fair sources can come from many places, of course they can just be made up by lazy journalists, but dont forget that clubs, agents and players can feed information to the press in order to engineer moves

[Moosey]

I think if the shoe was on the other foot and Xavi was at another big club like  madrid or bara and we was linked with him we would be foaming at the mouth and making room in the middle for him.

When gerrad was going to go 2 seasons ago a big comfert for me was Xavi staying.

He had a average season but he had a couple of great ones.

That boy can drop a ball on a 20p peice.

[Sabre]

Oh yes, they also talk shíte, and El Mundo Deportivo even more, although Barcelona's interest have been confirmed by other press aswell (Sport, bit more serious, and El Pais, even more serious) apart from... (a friend of mine that is friend of Pako  ).

For me all these football tabloids have the difficult job of making a newspaper every day talking about football. Here, they do that by going to each training session and comment the most tiny ridiculous detail. In England the tabloid seems to especulate, instead. That is, if they see the new contract is delayed, and they see Alonso is rotated, they make a whole story out of it.

Shíte, anyway.