Liverpool FC Forum

[ElNino9]

How is Kuyt poor? Kuyt was our third top scorer last season with 15. He also had lots of assists. He one of the best players at the club.

[GYBS]

Apologies RBG

World Class -

Pepe - distribution both with hands and feet are second to none - his reactions and stop stopping are up their with the best in the world

Masher - Most destructive DM in world football - covers the ground superbly , outstanding tracking and tackling

Xabi  - Passing ability is up there with the best of the world - calm on the ball and able to create space for himself and work in tight spaces

Gerrard - allround brilliance - his game doesnt lack anything and is outstanding in all aspects

Torres - as a striker dont think there is any better in the world - pace , left foot,right, foot both good , heading ability ,oustanding finishing ability,skill, solid on the ball , works constantly , can create out of nothing . got the lot for a striker

[aCe']

Apologies RBG

World Class -

Pepe - distribution both with hands and feet are second to none - his reactions and stop stopping are up their with the best in the world

Masher - Most destructive DM in world football - covers the ground superbly , outstanding tracking and tackling

Xabi  - Passing ability is up there with the best of the world - calm on the ball and able to create space for himself and work in tight spaces

Gerrard - allround brilliance - his game doesnt lack anything and is outstanding in all aspects

Torres - as a striker dont think there is any better in the world - pace , left foot,right, foot both good , heading ability ,oustanding finishing ability,skill, solid on the ball , works constantly , can create out of nothing . got the lot for a striker

Gerrard and Torres i agree with you 100%...
Alonso is probably my favorite football player today but im still not sure if hes world class or not... Maybe if he contributed more in terms of assists or attacking play he'd make the list but atm it would be disputable at best calling him world class imo...

Mascherano and Reina are some way off... if there was a bracket between very good and world class they'd fit there...
Reina is an excellent distributor... best in the world when it comes to picking a pass or starting an attack... However, he lacks in other (perhaos more important) attributes... to me he looks shaky many times when dealing with crosses and aerial challenges.. hes a good stopper and his positioning is good but im not sure hes that good when it comes to coming out and dealing with high balls... theres atleast 5 or 6 goalkeeprs in the world who are better than him, and i think our setup and defensive style of play might have led people into believing that hes a little better than he actually is... Hes still relatively young and with experience at top level football im sure he'll only get better... happy with him being at the club and all that but i dont think hes world class...

ill just point out the best players in every position imo...

GK: Julio Cesar - best stopper in the world tofay... doesnt seem to have any weaknesses to his game now despite a slow start with Inter... maybe if Buffon regains fitness and form he'd get his spot back but for now Cesar is a comfortable first imo..

FB: Maicon - best attacking fullback in the world today along with Dani Alves... defensively hes better than Alves imo and in terms of final product he seems to deliver on a consistent basis

CB: Rio Ferdinand - best CB in the world today imo... defensively hes as good as they come, he organizes the backline very well and i think he makes Vidic look even better than he is... he comfortable on the ball and start attacking moves very well from the back...

CM: Gerrard - safe to say everyone agrees with that one... close call between him, Essien and Xavi... 3 very different styles of playing the role but all very effective in what they do..

WG: Ronaldo... between him and Messi, not much to chose... Ronaldo with his goals and his better allround attributes edges it for me...

AM: Kaka... not many who seem to play the role, and play it well today... if Gerrard is considered in this position (which he should be imo) then he'd come in as a close second...

FW: Torres... in the last couple of years, the guy improved in pretty much every aspect beyond recognition... he turns on the ball better than any forward i've seen since Ronaldo (brazilian) in his prime... has a hell of a shot on him and knows how to create space for himself and for other players around him... Ibrahimovic is a distant second and Rooney not far behind...

[Emerald Red]

you only have one attribute up there and you just figured out 3 different ways of wording it... BRAVO...
Hes a very good player... one of the best in what he does.. in everything else he is average.. simple as..
you want names of other players who play central midfield who offer more... well.. Essien, Ballack, Fabregas, Gerrard, Alonso, Scholes... and thats just in the English league... theres probably atleast 10 if not more players who play the same position in other leagues who offer more... Hes a big name in world football and people often immediately link that to him being world class.. fair enough but i just think that the term is thrown around a little too often for my liking nowadays...

Defensive midfielders who are better than Mascherano in no particular order: DeRossi, Essien, Cambiasso, Alonso, Ballack, J.Zanneti... theres more i guess but those are ones that pop to mind i think... all round, any of the above are better than Mascherano and they play the same role/position he does when he plays with us...

Baffles me how you're on a football forum, yet with this post you've managed to both contradict yourself, and show how utterly clueless you can be at the same time. I'm sorry, but that's just a clueless post, and I've highlighted why in bold for you.

Players like Alonso, Gerrard, Farbregas etc etc are totally different pieces to the puzzle that makes up the game we all know and love as being called football. With the acception of Essien, who plays in a similar role to Mash, there aren't many players who are better in the world at THIS PARTICULAR ROLE on the pitch, see?

Great post by beergoggles as usual. Sadly it's been denigrated by such a terrible followup post.

Not my usual kind of disagreement. Not been in the best of spirits of late, but I'm sure I can be forgiven.

players who play the same position but have different styles of playing the game... doesnt mean you cant compare them...ffs and you come on and call me clueless ...

Its like saying you cant compare Kuyt and Theo Walcott because Walcott likes to dribble down the line and use his pace while Kuyt likes to... mmm..mmmm.... work hard and play short passes....

Fck off lad

"one of the best in what he does.. in everything else he is average..."

Maybe it wasnt clear but i would have though the 29 posts after it with me explaining it would have done the trick.. apparently you're even dumber that i thought...which takes some doing mind you

and what you mean by PARTICULAR ROLE ill never understand...
YES EMERALD.. NO ONE DOES THE MASCHERANO ROLE BETTER THAN MASCHERANO .. you get 2 gold stars for that.. THATS WHY YOU LOT FCKING CALL IT THE MASCHERANO ROLE, you set the criteria around Mascherano's best attributes and then fcking compare eveyone else based on that... well guess what, theres only going to be one winner there...  !!!!


FFS.. the way you lot go on about our players just makes you wonder how other teams that dont have Mascherano and Alonso as their midfield pairing can even manage to draw any game...

You are aware I said "role" on the pitch, right? Beergoggles innitial point I do believe. Roy Keane was great in all the similar ways Masherano is, yet distinctly remember no one saying that there were other players that could fill his boots in his particular "role" on the pitch. He was average at passing, shooting from range etc etc. Wasn't what was required from him.

[aCe']

you only have one attribute up there and you just figured out 3 different ways of wording it... BRAVO...
Hes a very good player... one of the best in what he does.. in everything else he is average.. simple as..
you want names of other players who play central midfield who offer more... well.. Essien, Ballack, Fabregas, Gerrard, Alonso, Scholes... and thats just in the English league... theres probably atleast 10 if not more players who play the same position in other leagues who offer more... Hes a big name in world football and people often immediately link that to him being world class.. fair enough but i just think that the term is thrown around a little too often for my liking nowadays...

Defensive midfielders who are better than Mascherano in no particular order: DeRossi, Essien, Cambiasso, Alonso, Ballack, J.Zanneti... theres more i guess but those are ones that pop to mind i think... all round, any of the above are better than Mascherano and they play the same role/position he does when he plays with us...

Baffles me how you're on a football forum, yet with this post you've managed to both contradict yourself, and show how utterly clueless you can be at the same time. I'm sorry, but that's just a clueless post, and I've highlighted why in bold for you.

Players like Alonso, Gerrard, Farbregas etc etc are totally different pieces to the puzzle that makes up the game we all know and love as being called football. With the acception of Essien, who plays in a similar role to Mash, there aren't many players who are better in the world at THIS PARTICULAR ROLE on the pitch, see?

Great post by beergoggles as usual. Sadly it's been denigrated by such a terrible followup post.

Not my usual kind of disagreement. Not been in the best of spirits of late, but I'm sure I can be forgiven.

players who play the same position but have different styles of playing the game... doesnt mean you cant compare them...ffs and you come on and call me clueless ...

Its like saying you cant compare Kuyt and Theo Walcott because Walcott likes to dribble down the line and use his pace while Kuyt likes to... mmm..mmmm.... work hard and play short passes....

Fck off lad

"one of the best in what he does.. in everything else he is average..."

Maybe it wasnt clear but i would have though the 29 posts after it with me explaining it would have done the trick.. apparently you're even dumber that i thought...which takes some doing mind you

and what you mean by PARTICULAR ROLE ill never understand...
YES EMERALD.. NO ONE DOES THE MASCHERANO ROLE BETTER THAN MASCHERANO .. you get 2 gold stars for that.. THATS WHY YOU LOT FCKING CALL IT THE MASCHERANO ROLE, you set the criteria around Mascherano's best attributes and then fcking compare eveyone else based on that... well guess what, theres only going to be one winner there...  !!!!


FFS.. the way you lot go on about our players just makes you wonder how other teams that dont have Mascherano and Alonso as their midfield pairing can even manage to draw any game...

You are aware I said "role" on the pitch, right? Beergoggles innitial point I do believe. Roy Keane was great in all the similar ways Masherano is, yet distinctly remember no one saying that there were other players that could fill his boots in his particular "role" on the pitch. He was average at passing, shooting from range etc etc. Wasn't what was required from him.

ok im not going to get into this argument again.. im just going to quote my initial post and leave it at that...

p.s... it wasnt his point i dont think.. he was talking about him being a central midfielder who controls the game and covers space...etc etc.. all of which are things any other decent central midfielder in the world does... my point is.. take Xavi, put him in Mascherano's jersey, play him and hed add more to the side than Mascherano ever will.. football isnt as rigid and complicated as some of you claim it to be...  Carrick cant tackle for sht.. can he defend , yes he can.. he does it in a different way .. he doesnt dive into tackles like Mascherano does but he simply steers opposition out of danger areas.. he closes down well...etc etc... Giggs cant defend for sht either...yet hes still one of the better CMs in the league..  anyways... this went on for longer than i though.. this was my initial post and in it i pointed out what you've been barking on about...

Defensive midfielders who are better than Mascherano in no particular order: DeRossi, Essien, Cambiasso, Alonso, Ballack, J.Zanneti... theres more i guess but those are ones that pop to mind i think... all round, any of the above are better than Mascherano and they play the same role/position he does when he plays with us...

[Emerald Red]

How is Kuyt poor? Kuyt was our third top scorer last season with 15. He also had lots of assists. He one of the best players at the club.

That's just a common misconception amonst most Lverpool supporters that Kuyt is a donkey for doing the donkey work, work that I may add is a commodity on the pitch that players and managers alike have a great understanding and respect of. Most people like to think of fooball as a game that's played with a ball at a persons feet, when in reality it's just as important what you do when you don't have the ball than when you do when you do have it. Kuyt's one of those players that loves to work his balls off so that he fills in holes, works space, and tracks back and forces errors. Unsung if you ask me.

[Emerald Red]

you only have one attribute up there and you just figured out 3 different ways of wording it... BRAVO...
Hes a very good player... one of the best in what he does.. in everything else he is average.. simple as..
you want names of other players who play central midfield who offer more... well.. Essien, Ballack, Fabregas, Gerrard, Alonso, Scholes... and thats just in the English league... theres probably atleast 10 if not more players who play the same position in other leagues who offer more... Hes a big name in world football and people often immediately link that to him being world class.. fair enough but i just think that the term is thrown around a little too often for my liking nowadays...

Defensive midfielders who are better than Mascherano in no particular order: DeRossi, Essien, Cambiasso, Alonso, Ballack, J.Zanneti... theres more i guess but those are ones that pop to mind i think... all round, any of the above are better than Mascherano and they play the same role/position he does when he plays with us...

Baffles me how you're on a football forum, yet with this post you've managed to both contradict yourself, and show how utterly clueless you can be at the same time. I'm sorry, but that's just a clueless post, and I've highlighted why in bold for you.

Players like Alonso, Gerrard, Farbregas etc etc are totally different pieces to the puzzle that makes up the game we all know and love as being called football. With the acception of Essien, who plays in a similar role to Mash, there aren't many players who are better in the world at THIS PARTICULAR ROLE on the pitch, see?

Great post by beergoggles as usual. Sadly it's been denigrated by such a terrible followup post.

Not my usual kind of disagreement. Not been in the best of spirits of late, but I'm sure I can be forgiven.

players who play the same position but have different styles of playing the game... doesnt mean you cant compare them...ffs and you come on and call me clueless ...

Its like saying you cant compare Kuyt and Theo Walcott because Walcott likes to dribble down the line and use his pace while Kuyt likes to... mmm..mmmm.... work hard and play short passes....

Fck off lad

"one of the best in what he does.. in everything else he is average..."

Maybe it wasnt clear but i would have though the 29 posts after it with me explaining it would have done the trick.. apparently you're even dumber that i thought...which takes some doing mind you

and what you mean by PARTICULAR ROLE ill never understand...
YES EMERALD.. NO ONE DOES THE MASCHERANO ROLE BETTER THAN MASCHERANO .. you get 2 gold stars for that.. THATS WHY YOU LOT FCKING CALL IT THE MASCHERANO ROLE, you set the criteria around Mascherano's best attributes and then fcking compare eveyone else based on that... well guess what, theres only going to be one winner there...  !!!!


FFS.. the way you lot go on about our players just makes you wonder how other teams that dont have Mascherano and Alonso as their midfield pairing can even manage to draw any game...

You are aware I said "role" on the pitch, right? Beergoggles innitial point I do believe. Roy Keane was great in all the similar ways Masherano is, yet distinctly remember no one saying that there were other players that could fill his boots in his particular "role" on the pitch. He was average at passing, shooting from range etc etc. Wasn't what was required from him.

ok im not going to get into this argument again.. im just going to quote my initial post and leave it at that...

Defensive midfielders who are better than Mascherano in no particular order: DeRossi, Essien, Cambiasso, Alonso, Ballack, J.Zanneti... theres more i guess but those are ones that pop to mind i think... all round, any of the above are better than Mascherano and they play the same role/position he does when he plays with us...

Fair enough, fella.

[NANNY RED]

Sorry about that, my first post was kind of on topic though 

tell me somethink i dont know.

An i agree with Redbeergoggles they dont come any better than Inesta at the mo, Absolutly world class , no one else better in that position , streets above , hes one player who i would happily pay money to watch,

[redbeergoggles]

How is Kuyt poor? Kuyt was our third top scorer last season with 15. He also had lots of assists. He one of the best players at the club.

That's just a common misconception amonst most Lverpool supporters that Kuyt is a donkey for doing the donkey work, work that I may add is a commodity on the pitch that players and managers alike have a great understanding and respect of. Most people like to think of fooball as a game that's played with a ball at a persons feet, when in reality it's just as important what you do when you don't have the ball than when you do when you do have it. Kuyt's one of those players that loves to work his balls off so that he fills in holes, works space, and tracks back and forces errors. Unsung if you ask me.

Totally agree Emerald ,however I tend to think most Liverpool supporters I know ,realize Kuyt's importance to the team ,its just the small minority that the penny fails to drop with ,maybe its a case of Kuyt's face will never fit, regardless of his contribution to the Liverpool team however immeasurable that proves to be .

[redhayesy]

Firstly I would like to say , I'm genuinely  surprised at just how many posters advocate the selling of Mascherano ,surely it is obvious to all who have seen him play that his sale would be to  the detriment of our football club .

Ok lets summarize this in the simplest terms I can muster ,and lets for the sake of potential debate call this thread the importance of Mascherano and his true worth .

I expect some fans have omitted from their memory just how essential a player like  Mascherano, playing at the top of his game is pivotal to Liverpool assuming control of the midfield .

Lets take the many aspects of Javiers game and break them down ,firstly his ability to nullify the attacking threat of our opponents ,this is second to none, there are few Midfielder's capable of dominating the centre of the park with such  ease .

I think all of us who have seen the passion he puts into his game ,realize the depth of feeling he has for the fans and likewise the  club ,also his reading of the game is essential to Liverpool's cause .

finally many fans have  seemingly began to overlook his  propensity to condense the space between  an opponents midfield and attack  ,this again can not be overstated .

In short Mascherano is key to the continued strength of our midfield ,you simply do not lose your best players ,especially those deserving of the title world class ..     

So for the sake of this thread being bracketed  into yet another Mascherano thread ,lets call this the world class thread, and in it you can describe what attributes a player needs to be merited with the above title ,and simply define why you have included this player .

It can be any player ,from any team ,with one rule he must still ply his trade now and not be a player from the past

brilliant topic stater mate, let alone your reasons for it! i coudn't have put it better. i just don't an will never understand peoples thinking why the selling of masha would be a good idea!

he is world class, not only that- who the feck would or could fit in to our system like he does. i still say we only have to add to the team/squad one other player now we have puchased GJ  an that is a striker not another midfield player, as selling masha would really wealen the side,also the way raffa has the spine of the side established now. going foward it has always been to keep the strength of the side in tact,to ensure consistancy not disrupt it with selling players like masha which would have that effect.

he has shown for me what it is an should be a 'privalage' to wear the famous red shirt. his attitude is first class an works his socks off off the team,so i'm trying very hard to ignore any negative comments made about masha as i tuley believe he wants to stay an be part of our future sucess as i also think it would be detrament to our club if we sold him.

[redhayesy]

Apologies RBG

World Class -

Pepe - distribution both with hands and feet are second to none - his reactions and stop stopping are up their with the best in the world

Masher - Most destructive DM in world football - covers the ground superbly , outstanding tracking and tackling

Xabi  - Passing ability is up there with the best of the world - calm on the ball and able to create space for himself and work in tight spaces

Gerrard - allround brilliance - his game doesnt lack anything and is outstanding in all aspects

Torres - as a striker dont think there is any better in the world - pace , left foot,right, foot both good , heading ability ,oustanding finishing ability,skill, solid on the ball , works constantly , can create out of nothing . got the lot for a striker

the thing for me mate is the reason why alonso is like you say calm on the ball & creates space for himself, is because masha fights for possesion,wins the ball from the opposition to enable alonso to work in seemingly tight spaces, cause he knows he has masha's pressence,know how & ability to make that happen in the first place.

all world class creative midfield players like alonso & gerrard need the likes of a world class indecepter like masha to break up the oppo in the first place!

the amount of times i have seen masha break up play an lay a simple pas to either alonso or gerard,enabaling them to play a defence splitting pass for the likes of torres is credit to his awareness,football brain & world class ability,that few players aound today pocess. in fits in to our system of play so well in that repect that we have made the progress up to now,& with raffa getting the balance right & the patten of play we create for the above, it would be madnes to disrupt that. it is full credit to raffa that masha has developed into the player he has become, & the likes of alonso have defo benefited from that.

[redbeergoggles]

Firstly I would like to say , I'm genuinely  surprised at just how many posters advocate the selling of Mascherano ,surely it is obvious to all who have seen him play that his sale would be to  the detriment of our football club .

Ok lets summarize this in the simplest terms I can muster ,and lets for the sake of potential debate call this thread the importance of Mascherano and his true worth .

I expect some fans have omitted from their memory just how essential a player like  Mascherano, playing at the top of his game is pivotal to Liverpool assuming control of the midfield .

Lets take the many aspects of Javiers game and break them down ,firstly his ability to nullify the attacking threat of our opponents ,this is second to none, there are few Midfielder's capable of dominating the centre of the park with such  ease .

I think all of us who have seen the passion he puts into his game ,realize the depth of feeling he has for the fans and likewise the  club ,also his reading of the game is essential to Liverpool's cause .

finally many fans have  seemingly began to overlook his  propensity to condense the space between  an opponents midfield and attack  ,this again can not be overstated .

In short Mascherano is key to the continued strength of our midfield ,you simply do not lose your best players ,especially those deserving of the title world class ..     

So for the sake of this thread being bracketed  into yet another Mascherano thread ,lets call this the world class thread, and in it you can describe what attributes a player needs to be merited with the above title ,and simply define why you have included this player .

It can be any player ,from any team ,with one rule he must still ply his trade now and not be a player from the past

brilliant topic stater mate, let alone your reasons for it! i coudn't have put it better. i just don't an will never understand peoples thinking why the selling of masha would be a good idea!

he is world class, not only that- who the feck would or could fit in to our system like he does. i still say we only have to add to the team/squad one other player now we have puchased GJ  an that is a striker not another midfield player, as selling masha would really wealen the side,also the way raffa has the spine of the side established now. going foward it has always been to keep the strength of the side in tact,to ensure consistancy not disrupt it with selling players like masha which would have that effect.

he has shown for me what it is an should be a 'privalage' to wear the famous red shirt. his attitude is first class an works his socks off off the team,so i'm trying very hard to ignore any negative comments made about masha as i tuley believe he wants to stay an be part of our future sucess as i also think it would be detrament to our club if we sold him.

Cheers Red , couldn't have summed it up better myself ,and if he does intend leaving then he has seriously pulled the wool over my eyes ,because I genuinely believe he plays for the love of the fans .

[NANNY RED]

Seems like Rafa is of the same opinion

Javier Mascherano to be told: You’re staying at Liverpool FC
by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo


RAFA BENITEZ will tell Javier Mascherano he will not be allowed to leave Liverpool when the Argentinian midfielder returns to pre-season training later this week.

The future of Mascherano – who became a father for the second time at the weekend – has been in question throughout the summer after the 25-year-old told the Reds boss that his wife was suffering from homesickness.

But with the likelihood of Xabi Alonso quitting Anfield increasing with every passing day, Benitez would be loathe to lose Mascherano as well and see his entire first choice central midfield wiped out in the space of a few weeks.

Mascherano has been attracting interest from Barcelona with Nou Camp boss Pep Guardiola keen to employ him behind Andres Iniesta and Xavi in the European champions’ engine room.

Benitez is desperate to hang on to the Argentina captain though and has already made it clear he is not looking to cash in on a player he regards as one of the finest defensive midfielders in world football.

With Mascherano due to join up with his team mates at pre-season training in Switzerland in the coming days Benitez will take the opportunity to tell the former West Ham man that he won’t be going anywhere because he is needed for Liverpool’s assault on the Premier League title in the coming season.

Contrary to reports, there are as yet no plans to offer the player a new contract as a sweetener with Mascherano just 18 months into a four year deal signed in February 2008.

Benitez is hoping that the lure of possible glory with Liverpool rather than an increased pay packet will be enough to convince Mascherano that his future remains at Anfield.

Only if Mascherano commits himself to the Liverpool cause once again will a new contract become a possibility

[LFC2007]

They don't the guy, Toure and Busquets and more than adequate as they showed last season.