Liverpool FC Forum

[115-1073096938]

Yeah so they had a good team but if he was so good at that age, the surely they wouldnt have sold him knowing what he was going to achieve.

Are you saying if United had 2 world class forwards then Rooney couldnt get into the team because of his age?

If you are good enough your old enough and if he was as good at his age that you are saying he was the Milan would never have sold him and definatley not for that money

Players don't become something they aren't. They never have, they never will. Players who have poor control will never learn to have great control, players who aren't strong will never become strong, players without pace will never gain pace, players who have no bottle will never gain bottle, players who can't pass won't become the best passers of the ball in the world, players who can't head a ball never learn how to be great in the air.

Players improve slightly in a couple of area's during there careers IF they are playing in the correct system with the correct players around them. They learn to disguise weaknesses and learn how to maximise there strengths.

Vieira has EVERYTHING. He can tackle, he's quick, he's got a good touch, he's good passer, he's strong, he's skillfull. Players like that aren't made, you can't make a bad player good.

Look at Traore, he had the natural attributes to become world class, what happened?

Look at Rooney at 17 compared to Baros at 23. The difference is there for all to see. These players have the ability in the first place, they don't suddenly learn this or that or suddenly improve immensely.

It has never ever happened like that and never will.

[Dundalk]

Sorry but Vieira between 18-22 was nothing more than a prospect. Look at the facts, Arsenal only signed him when he was 20 (Milan didn't even see his potential as he only made 2 full starts before he was flogged!), he didn't even make his national debut until he was 21 - he only got a full call up after prioir to the 98 world cup.

With that in mind how can you say that Sissoko at his current age is nowhere near as good as Vieira at the same age when Vieira did sweet F.A. until he was 21 when Arsenal won their first league title of the ninties?

I think it is you sir who is speaking out of his rather large @rse

Thanks for the back up 

[Dundalk]

Players don't become something they aren't.

Ian Wright anyone?

[SouthCoastShankly]

Vieira made himself, he wasn't ever a boy wonder. He only started having massive attention form the likes of Madrid and Juve when Arsenal starting dominating the league and winning non-stop

[115-1073096938]

Sorry but Vieira between 18-22 was nothing more than a prospect. Look at the facts, Arsenal only signed him when he was 20 (Milan didn't even see his potential as he only made 2 full starts before he was flogged!), he didn't even make his national debut until he was 21 - he only got a full call up after prioir to the 98 world cup.

With that in mind how can you say that Sissoko at his current age is nowhere near as good as Vieira at the same age when Vieira did sweet F.A. until he was 21 when Arsenal won their first league title of the ninties?

I think it is you sir who is speaking out of his rather large @rse

He done nothing except practically dominate every midfield battle he had in his first ever season for Arsenal at 20 years old and was a massive part of the reason they won the league.

Well i tell you what lad, go and ask an Arsenal fan how good he was when he came through.

You clearly don't understand the game.

So much so i can't be arsed arguing with you.

Maybe Cisse can learn at 24 to just control a ball, learn to head, learn to stay onside, learn to pass then learn to hold defenders off and link up with people aswell. Maybe he can also gain composure infront of goal.

He's the next Henry you know.

Why do people such as yourself argue about things you know nothing about? I don't understand that logic.

I tell you what, Sissoko will learn to pass the ball consistently to a team mate over 10 yards, will also learn to shoot better than anyone, will become more intelligent and develope better vision, will learn how not to leave holes in midfield, will learn not to dive in all the time, will learn how to pick a defence splitting pass and will learn how to become the worlds best in his position. He'll single handedly make us a major force in England aswell and also be world class for many years.

I find it quite amusing when people think about players level's dramatically increase, never has happened, never will.

[115-1073096938]

Players don't become something they aren't.

Ian Wright anyone?

Right, so Ian Wright never had ability before he went to Palace? He moved there and just developed it?

[115-1073096938]

Vieira made himself, he wasn't ever a boy wonder. He only started having massive attention form the likes of Madrid and Juve when Arsenal starting dominating the league and winning non-stop

Yes right, so at Milan he was nothing?

The fact that he was at Milan in the first place doesn't hint that he might have had an ounce of ability?

He never had ability at Milan though, he can't have surely.

[SouthCoastShankly]

He done nothing except practically dominate every midfield battle he had in his first ever season for Arsenal at 20 years old and was a massive part of the reason they won the league

No Vieira dominted the midfield recently, initially he had great spells but often his early seasons we're marred by misconduct.

Why do people such as yourself argue about things you know nothing about? I don't understand that logic

Let me see I play football, watch football, fucking eat sleep and breathe football. How is it I know nothing? Thats what you call an uninformed comment.....mate.

I tell you what, Sissoko will learn to pass the ball consistently to a team mate over 10 yards, will also learn to shoot better than anyone, will become more intelligent and develope better vision, will learn how not to leave holes in midfield, will learn not to dive in all the time, will learn how to pick a defence splitting pass and will learn how to become the worlds best in his position. He'll single handedly make us a major force in England aswell and also be world class for many years.

I find it quite amusing when people think about players level's dramatically increasing, never has happened, never will.

At no point have I ever said Sissoko is as good as Vieira - I said he has the potential to be as good Vieira. Something that Rafa happens to agree with.

Have a ganders at this Times article:
-----
"Mohamed Sissoko is fast becoming one of Europe’s finest midfield enforcers, but had a referee not been so obliging during a friendly game in Spain 2½ years ago, the player Rafael Benítez believes can be “much better” than Patrick Vieira might never have emerged...

...The Liverpool manager was in charge of Valencia when, in the summer of 2003, the Spanish club signed Sissoko as a striker from Auxerre. Having used all his substitutes by the time a player got injured early in the second half of a friendly against St Gallen, of Switzerland, later that year, Benítez was granted permission by the referee for Sissoko to be reintroduced as a midfield player, having spent the first 45 minutes operating in his customary position as a deeplying forward.

“We put him in the middle and it was like, ‘Wow! What is this?’ ” Benítez said. “After that we started working with him as a midfielder. We were looking at the numbers after each game in astonishment. Every game he was running 11 or 12 kilometres so it just required us to work on certain tactical situations with him because he’d always been a striker before.”

“With time he can be much better (than Vieira), but I don’t want to put him under pressure,” Benítez said. “He’s a different kind of player to what we had last season. With Sissoko in front of the defence running, blocking and intercepting all the time, we’re conceding less, while Xabi Alonso and Steven Gerrard can play more offensively and on the counter-attack.”

------------
You can read the rest in you own time old friend The Times

Learn to back down when your beaten next time....mate

[2520years]

I've come to the conclusion that stu_the_red disagrees with everything, all the time.

Do you agree Stu?

[115-1073096938]

He done nothing except practically dominate every midfield battle he had in his first ever season for Arsenal at 20 years old and was a massive part of the reason they won the league

No Vieira dominted the midfield recently, initially he had great spells but often his early seasons we're marred by misconduct.

Why do people such as yourself argue about things you know nothing about? I don't understand that logic

Let me see I play football, watch football, fucking eat sleep and breathe football. How is it I know nothing? Thats what you call an uninformed comment.....mate.

I tell you what, Sissoko will learn to pass the ball consistently to a team mate over 10 yards, will also learn to shoot better than anyone, will become more intelligent and develope better vision, will learn how not to leave holes in midfield, will learn not to dive in all the time, will learn how to pick a defence splitting pass and will learn how to become the worlds best in his position. He'll single handedly make us a major force in England aswell and also be world class for many years.

I find it quite amusing when people think about players level's dramatically increasing, never has happened, never will.

At no point have I ever said Sissoko is as good as Vieira - I said he has the potential to be as good Vieira. Something that Rafa happens to agree with. Have a ganders at this Times article:

"Mohamed Sissoko is fast becoming one of Europe’s finest midfield enforcers, but had a referee not been so obliging during a friendly game in Spain 2½ years ago, the player Rafael Benítez believes can be “much better” than Patrick Vieira might never have emerged...

...The Liverpool manager was in charge of Valencia when, in the summer of 2003, the Spanish club signed Sissoko as a striker from Auxerre. Having used all his substitutes by the time a player got injured early in the second half of a friendly against St Gallen, of Switzerland, later that year, Benítez was granted permission by the referee for Sissoko to be reintroduced as a midfield player, having spent the first 45 minutes operating in his customary position as a deeplying forward.

“We put him in the middle and it was like, ‘Wow! What is this?’ ” Benítez said. “After that we started working with him as a midfielder. We were looking at the numbers after each game in astonishment. Every game he was running 11 or 12 kilometres so it just required us to work on certain tactical situations with him because he’d always been a striker before.”

“With time he can be much better (than Vieira), but I don’t want to put him under pressure,” Benítez said. “He’s a different kind of player to what we had last season. With Sissoko in front of the defence running, blocking and intercepting all the time, we’re conceding less, while Xabi Alonso and Steven Gerrard can play more offensively and on the counter-attack.”

------------
You can read the rest in you own time old friend The Times

Learn to back down when your beaten next time....mate

How am i beaten? ....mate

Because Rafa says ts correct it must be? ...mate

Rafa offered Traore a four year contract, are all 45,000 that go to the match regularly wrong and Rafa's right? ...mate

So he covers alot of ground? More than anyone else? So what? That doesn't mean he's got any of the other attributes to be world class. He hasn't got the level of ability Vieira had at the same age, Vieira was and is better in near enough EVERY department, he improved slightly everywhere with age as will Sissoko, he'll never be in Vieira's class... mate

Infact, he'll NEVER be in Alonso's class. Alonso isn't as good as Vieira, Sissoko isn't as good as Alonso. Sissoko is a good player, he's nowhere near the level you're putting him at.... mate

As for potential, you clearly can't judge a players potential if you think he's got what it take to become that good.... mate.

I tell you what, make sure you're still on here in five years time and we'll see weather Vieira makes the level you're on about? I'll be you anything he's not in the top 5 midfielders in the world.

Bellend.

[SouthCoastShankly]

You clearly are  blinded for you love of Vieira. Rafa is a clever man so thats why people value his opinion and decisions. And I agree in  his opinion on Sissoko. Your in the minority and minorities generally are wrong, unlucky.

BTW The reason I used the word 'mate' alot is because i was trying to keep this conversation a debate instead of a slagging match, but if you want to start a slagging match go ahead - i think I can bring myself down to your level for a while.

[115-1073096938]

You clearly are  blinded for you love of Vieira. Rafa is a clever man so thats why people value his opinion and decisions. And I agree in  his opinion on Sissoko. Your in the minority and minorities generally are wrong, unlucky.

BTW The reason I used the word 'mate' alot is because i was trying to keep this conversation a debate instead of a slagging match, but if you want to start a slagging match go ahead - i think I can bring myself down to your level for a while.

I don't love Vieira, i simply respect one of the best footballers i've ever seen LIVE at a match. One that shown immense ability in all area's of the game. Mind you, not being from Liverpool, not being a true/match going red i don't expect you to understand the value's of this club and the way which true fans appriciate the quality of other players and even other teams.

I don't expect people like you to stand up and applaud teams like Valencia or Barcelona after they play us off the park.

Rafa is an excellent manager, however he isn't always right. Signings such as Josemi and Nunez prove it, giving Traore a four year contract. Morientes' huge success story? I didn't want Morientes because i knew this would happen with him, i wanted rid of Baros after the euro's as i knew that would be the correct time to sell him, i've called Carragher a very very good player from day one, i was wrong then, now i call him pretty much the same thing with improved leadership etc and i'm still wrong as he's now jumped from to world class...

That doesn't mean i'm great, it simply proves Rafa doesn't always know everything, weather he's the best in the world or not i'll always know and spot things he doesn't. He will never know everything about the english game, i'm not saying do, infact i'm not sayin i have a tenth of his knowledge, but i know my football, i know a player when i see one and i know what will work and what won't.

I also don't for one second buy it that Crouch is a better footballer than Dean Ashton, yet we have Crouch rather than him...

I've wanted Robbie back for ages and always maintained he'd score goals and is still an excellent player, i was always wrong untill Rafa decided he wanted to sign him. Rafa gets it right alot of the time, but he's not infalible and there are players out there better than what we currently have.

There are players like:

Barton
Parker
Bullard
Whitehead
Arca
Killkenny
Dunn
Pennant
Sutton
Barry
Ryan Taylor
Steven Taylor
Phillips

Etc who aren't playing at the level they could down to a lack of reputation. There are then players playing in teams beyond there level due to reputations...

Shearer
Traore
Cisse
Cunningham
Fletcher
Carvalho
Wright-Phillips

[Dundalk]

Mind you, not being from Liverpool, not being a true/match going red i don't expect you to understand the value's of this club and the way which true fans appriciate the quality of other players and even other teams.

Thats a biy harsh 

[SouthCoastShankly]

Since when has supporting a team nowadays been about where you live?? True I don't live in Liverpool but doesn't stop me seeing my team play. In a good season I see them 8/9 times at home across all competitions. I probably see them another 5/6 times away.

Do you think that the majority of forum members here are regular attendees at Anfield - I think not. Your just lucky to live where you do, if I was within 2 hours of liverpool I'd be a season ticket holder. Alas i'm not so I have to make do. Boo Hoo!!

I appreciate Vieira for the player he is now, not who he used to be. I also see the same potential as Rafa sees in Sissoko.

Lets agree to disagree. Only time is going to prove either of us right

[115-1073096938]

Since when has supporting a team nowadays been about where you live?? True I don't live in Liverpool but doesn't stop me seeing my team play. In a good season I see them 8/9 times at home across all competitions. I probably see them another 5/6 times away.

Do you think that the majority of forum members here are regular attendees at Anfield - I think not. Your just lucky to live where you do, if I was within 2 hours of liverpool I'd be a season ticket holder. Alas i'm not so I have to make do. Boo Hoo!!

I appreciate Vieira for the player he is now, not who he used to be. I also see the same potential as Rafa sees in Sissoko.

Lets agree to disagree. Only time is going to prove either of us right

Vieira's not what he used to be?

Maybe, slightly, but look at Arsenal since he left...