Liverpool FC Forum

[Red @ Heart]

Why is it when Teams like Arsenal, Manchester united and Chelsea no not Chelsea becuase they have an open cheque book, but teams like Aresenal and Manchester they buy players unknowns to be precise but they turn out to be little gems, such as Solskier, peter shceimichal, vidic and others, and for Arsenal theyve signed Toure, eboui    you guys catch my drift with the players im trying to name i just cant spell them,
Anyway my point is when we sign unknown players they never seem to turn out like the others i have named above or tried to, i know we have signed a few players over the years but prffff the majority have been cack it hurts and makes me so fúcking jealous when i see that the manchesters and the arsenals seem to find them, is it our scouting policy? or are our scouts just .

just somthing that has boggled me over the last few years and i know LFC has limited funds but those players that manchester and arsenal has bought over the years we could have easily matched what they paid,

so if anyone can answer this i would be greatful 

[Rafa D]

Here is a thought - go and support them teams if your so worried about them!

Recently all you post is drivel, that is deterimental to the club and this forum and you obviously don't have any football knowledge. This thread is fucking pathetic!

[Bad Bob]

Virtual unknowns before we signed them who have turned out to be "hidden gems" that others are jealous of:

Sissoko
Agger
Alonso
Garcia
Hyypia
Riise

Potential "hidden gems" currently in the squad (time will tell):

Aurelio
Gonzales
Palletta
Carson
Martin
Anderson
Hammill
Antwi
Hobbs
Lindfield
El Zhar
Roque

Academy products have have come through and made the grade:

Gerrard
Carragher
Fowler

And that's just members of the current squad, without reference to past Reds greats.  Bottom line: we're not doing too badly so quit your whinging.

[Rafa D]

Vidic?!? Unknown, ok yes mate!

Vidic came to Anfield for a chat with Rafa and Rafa decided he did not like his attitude. He cost a similar amount to Agger who is at the very least his equal - Vidic FFS!

  Man Utd and Arsenal have bought duds as well, just like us  and we like them have brought in quality players with small reputations. Utd brought in players like Bellion, Miller, Howard, Forlan, Cyruff and many more. Did they make it?!?

What about our own signings in Berger, Finnan, Hypia, Henchoz, Riise? All players with small reps who played many games for the club.

IT SEEMS THAT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT WINNING WE ARE NOT FLAVOUR OF THE MONTH - its fucking disgraceful.

[woof woof !]

.  Bottom line: we're not doing too badly so quit your whinging.

Think thats a bit harsh Bob .

ArsenAl in particular seem to have a knack for signing previously unknown (to me at least) players who almost instantly prove succesful . We on the other hand don't seem to sign "unknowns" that impress with the same immediacy as those signed by Arsenal ,Sissoko of course being our only exception .

I think Red @ Hearts question is a fair one , not that I have an answer for him other than maybe our "scouts" and our ability to assess a players ability to slot in perhaps not as good .  ?


ps , forgot to agree that Sami was a massive find but then again he wasn't signed under the Benitez regime.

[Bad Bob]

.  Bottom line: we're not doing too badly so quit your whinging.

Think thats a bit harsh Bob .

ArsenAl in particular seem to have a knack for signing previously unknown (to me at least) players who almost instantly prove succesful . We on the other hand don't seem to sign "unknowns" that impress with the same immediacy as those signed by Arsenal ,Sissoko of course being our only exception .

I think Red @ Hearts question is a fair one , not that I have an answer for him other than maybe our "scouts" and our ability to assess a players ability to slot in perhaps not as good .  ?


ps , forgot to agree that Sami was a massive find but then again he wasn't signed under the Benitez regime.

Sure, Woof, Arsenal have some exciting young prospects to excite their fans: Fabregas, Toure, Eboue, Clichy, and perhaps Walcott.  Thing is, the "immediate success" of Arsenal's youngsters has a lot to do with the fact that they are in a serious rebuilding phase (Vieira, Bergkamp, Pires, Cole, Edu, Campbell all out in the past 2 seasons) and are also a little strapped for cash thanks to the new stadium.  They've had no choice but to blood young prospects much faster and in a more sustained way than us, the Mancs or Chelsea, who each have a firm nucleus of veteran talent keeping the young lads out of the first team.  Wenger looks like a genius because the kids have done really well but, as we've seen with Walcott, when he's had a choice, he's been cautious about throwing young prospects into the fray.  Moreover, it remains to be seen how the likes of Eboue or Clichy or Walcott develop from here.  They may prove to be great, great players or they may be flashes in the pan.  Only time will tell whether these players are better than, say, our young prospects.

Who knows?  Rafa's brought a lot of fresh blood into the academy in the past 2 seasons and we may have our own Eboue or Toure in our reserves at the moment, waiting to get their chance.  Until these lads have had a chance to stake their place in the side, I think it's a bit short-sighted to suggest that our eye for talent is not as good as our rivals. 

And, it's important to remember that Arsenal also have (or have had) youngsters who don't quite look the business or who have not yet scaled the heights: Aladiere, Adebayor, Franny Jeffers, Flamini, even Hleb.  It's easy to focus on the successes and forget about the others but all top teams have players that just can't make the grade long-term.  The point is, I don't think we've seen enough of our young lads to say that we are doing any worse than our rivals in the "hidden gems" stakes.  And, in terms of our first team, I would say that the likes of Alonso, Sissoko and Agger prove that we are matching if not beating our rivals in the talent stakes.

[Rafa D]

.  Bottom line: we're not doing too badly so quit your whinging.

Think thats a bit harsh Bob .

ArsenAl in particular seem to have a knack for signing previously unknown (to me at least) players who almost instantly prove succesful . We on the other hand don't seem to sign "unknowns" that impress with the same immediacy as those signed by Arsenal ,Sissoko of course being our only exception .

I think Red @ Hearts question is a fair one , not that I have an answer for him other than maybe our "scouts" and our ability to assess a players ability to slot in perhaps not as good .  ?


ps , forgot to agree that Sami was a massive find but then again he wasn't signed under the Benitez regime.

Sure, Woof, Arsenal have some exciting young prospects to excite their fans: Fabregas, Toure, Eboue, Clichy, and perhaps Walcott.  Thing is, the "immediate success" of Arsenal's youngsters has a lot to do with the fact that they are in a serious rebuilding phase (Vieira, Bergkamp, Pires, Cole, Edu, Campbell all out in the past 2 seasons) and are also a little strapped for cash thanks to the new stadium.  They've had no choice but to blood young prospects much faster and in a more sustained way than us, the Mancs or Chelsea, who each have a firm nucleus of veteran talent keeping the young lads out of the first team.  Wenger looks like a genius because the kids have done really well but, as we've seen with Walcott, when he's had a choice, he's been cautious about throwing young prospects into the fray.  Moreover, it remains to be seen how the likes of Eboue or Clichy or Walcott develop from here.  They may prove to be great, great players or they may be flashes in the pan.  Only time will tell whether these players are better than, say, our young prospects.

Who knows?  Rafa's brought a lot of fresh blood into the academy in the past 2 seasons and we may have our own Eboue or Toure in our reserves at the moment, waiting to get their chance.  Until these lads have had a chance to stake their place in the side, I think it's a bit short-sighted to suggest that our eye for talent is not as good as our rivals. 

And, it's important to remember that Arsenal also have (or have had) youngsters who don't quite look the business or who have not yet scaled the heights: Aladiere, Adebayor, Franny Jeffers, Flamini, even Hleb.  It's easy to focus on the successes and forget about the others but all top teams have players that just can't make the grade long-term.  The point is, I don't think we've seen enough of our young lads to say that we are doing any worse than our rivals in the "hidden gems" stakes.  And, in terms of our first team, I would say that the likes of Alonso, Sissoko and Agger prove that we are matching if not beating our rivals in the talent stakes.

A A+ Post Bob

[woof woof !]

And, it's important to remember that Arsenal also have (or have had) youngsters who don't quite look the business or who have not yet scaled the heights: Aladiere, Adebayor, Franny Jeffers, Flamini, even Hleb.  It's easy to focus on the successes and forget about the others but all top teams have players that just can't make the grade long-term.

Maybe the big difference is that the players you have mentioned have at least been given a chance to prove themselves and in most cases they have looked more than promising because they are in fact good enough to begin with . Can't help but notice you left out an Arsenal "one for the future" who they quickly let go , he now plays for us . (maybe "plays" is an exeggaration    ) .Perhaps that highlights the difference between how their coaching staff and ours "see" things . 

[JC_81]

The phrase 'the grass is always greener' springs to mind when reading this thread

We've uncovered plenty of gems for less than their true market value down the years - Hyypia was the best, totally unheard of at the age of 26 and within a couple of years was the most aerially dominant centre half in the world.  I remember a manc fan saying to me when we signed him 'Sami fu.cking Hyypia??  Who is he?'  He found out soon enough.  Of the current crop Alonso, Sissoko and Agger all look relative bargains.  The reality is though that for a team challenging for major honours it is difficult enough to find players who are available who would improve your team, let alone players who are also good value for money - hence transfer success rates at top clubs is less than 50%.

In terms of picking up good young players on the cheap, Wenger has an uncanny knack of doing this.  Whether he has just been more lucky than the likes of Ferguson, Houllier, Benitez etc I'm not sure, or whether it's his scouting network that is superior no one really knows.  But lets not forget Grimandi, Stepanovs, Almunia, Jeffers, Suker etc.  He doesn't get it right all the time.

I don't think we've done any worse than United or Chelsea in picking up good value players down the years, but Wenger certainly has struck it lucky with his current crop.  But he was also the first manager to flood his youth system with foreigners a few years back. Now us, Chelsea and United are doing the same so maybe in a few years you'll see us produce an Eboue or a Fabregas.

[Bad Bob]

Can't help but notice you left out an Arsenal "one for the future" who they quickly let go , he now plays for us . (maybe "plays" is an exeggaration    ) .Perhaps that highlights the difference between how their coaching staff and ours "see" things . 

Spotted that did you?    Pennant's doing my head in of late, so I'm gonna refrain from commenting on him in this context!

As for the 'maybe the Arsenal kids are just good enough' argument, I'd say that maybe Lee Peltier is every bit as good as Eboue and the only reason we can talk more confidently about Eboue's ability is because Wenger had no choice but to play the Ivorian all last season due to Lauren's injury?  It's tough to properly rate our youth against theirs, since theirs are getting a game at the moment while ours aren't.

[woof woof !]

Wenger certainly has struck it lucky with his current crop.  But he was also the first manager to flood his youth system with foreigners a few years back. Now us, Chelsea and United are doing the same so maybe in a few years you'll see us produce an Eboue or a Fabregas.

Think you're missing part of the point here John . It's not a just a question of signing good prospects , for christs sake Houllier was always telling us how his latest signing was a potential Zidane . It's more about signing players who are able to quickly prove that the decision to sign them was indeed the right one .

You say
" in a few years you'll see us produce an Eboue or a Fabregas."

Maybe you're unaware that Eboue made his first team debut just days after joining Arsenal and that Fabrergas made his first team debut the same season he joined Arsenal even though he was still only 16 ! .

Credit where credit is due , Wenger is not just "Lucky"  but if it makes you feel better you can certainly claim our inability to match his instinct for signing such previously unearthed quality on bad luck .

[heimdall]

.  Bottom line: we're not doing too badly so quit your whinging.

Think thats a bit harsh Bob .

ArsenAl in particular seem to have a knack for signing previously unknown (to me at least) players who almost instantly prove succesful . We on the other hand don't seem to sign "unknowns" that impress with the same immediacy as those signed by Arsenal ,Sissoko of course being our only exception .

I think Red @ Hearts question is a fair one , not that I have an answer for him other than maybe our "scouts" and our ability to assess a players ability to slot in perhaps not as good .  ?


ps , forgot to agree that Sami was a massive find but then again he wasn't signed under the Benitez regime.

Sure, Woof, Arsenal have some exciting young prospects to excite their fans: Fabregas, Toure, Eboue, Clichy, and perhaps Walcott.  Thing is, the "immediate success" of Arsenal's youngsters has a lot to do with the fact that they are in a serious rebuilding phase (Vieira, Bergkamp, Pires, Cole, Edu, Campbell all out in the past 2 seasons) and are also a little strapped for cash thanks to the new stadium.  They've had no choice but to blood young prospects much faster and in a more sustained way than us, the Mancs or Chelsea, who each have a firm nucleus of veteran talent keeping the young lads out of the first team.  Wenger looks like a genius because the kids have done really well but, as we've seen with Walcott, when he's had a choice, he's been cautious about throwing young prospects into the fray.  Moreover, it remains to be seen how the likes of Eboue or Clichy or Walcott develop from here.  They may prove to be great, great players or they may be flashes in the pan.  Only time will tell whether these players are better than, say, our young prospects.

Who knows?  Rafa's brought a lot of fresh blood into the academy in the past 2 seasons and we may have our own Eboue or Toure in our reserves at the moment, waiting to get their chance.  Until these lads have had a chance to stake their place in the side, I think it's a bit short-sighted to suggest that our eye for talent is not as good as our rivals. 

And, it's important to remember that Arsenal also have (or have had) youngsters who don't quite look the business or who have not yet scaled the heights: Aladiere, Adebayor, Franny Jeffers, Flamini, even Hleb.  It's easy to focus on the successes and forget about the others but all top teams have players that just can't make the grade long-term.  The point is, I don't think we've seen enough of our young lads to say that we are doing any worse than our rivals in the "hidden gems" stakes.  And, in terms of our first team, I would say that the likes of Alonso, Sissoko and Agger prove that we are matching if not beating our rivals in the talent stakes.

You forgot about the other Arsenal promising youngster who never amounted to anything, our very own Pennant ,-)

[peterc1992]

im very annoyed the way rafa is only really interested in spainish player

im annoyed  that liverpool are in no way interedted in freedie adu


it pisses me off

but mate liverpool did  make alot of unown players into"gems"

riise,agger, etc.
on the other hand man utd,signed players like:rooney,carrick,ronaldo

already made little gems

i think the complete oposstite to u,i think that we  dont sign enough big time players,we seem to sign alot of  un,known players and they get a name made for them selves at liverpool

dont agree with u

[Rafa D]

im annoyed  that liverpool are in no way interedted in freedie adu

Oh so you play champ and think Freddy Adu is a class act?

Real rejected him, Chelsea rejected him, he is on trial with United. If he was anything special he would of been snapped up. 

[112-1077774096]

it seems everyone here may be missing a massive point, maybe the arsenal youngsters are no better than our youngsters but the get the chance to play in an exciting flowing football team, as opposed to our defensive negative set up, maybe this is the difference, put those arsenal players in our team and take away their atacking freedom and see how mediocre they look