Liverpool FC Forum

[big al]

"football is a simple game complicated by fools"  These words were once spoken by the legendary Bill Shankly but for me they would be of equal validity had any manager of the last 100 years said them (including Alex Ferguson)

In this basic veiw Shankly is describing an ethos and a great understanding of football.  He see's beyond the tactics, the techniques, the strategies and the belief that we can make players better by allowing them to experience the highest level of football.

Shankly was describing the absolute truth of football because he knew from his own experience how easy it is to play.  The same basic rules apply.
Get control of the ball, keep control by passing to your team mates and tire your oponents out by letting them try to get it back and score goals . Simple! heres how!

1. If other team has ball pressure them into giving ball back and move to step 2.

2. Whilst you have control, team mates should constantly move to create options for player on the ball.  Always provide more than one option, move to step 3

3.  Using the method outlined in step 2, work the ball forward until within target of oponents goal and try to score goal. If unsuccessful go back to step 1.

This is what foootball should be and was for Liverpool.

Alright, alright you say its more complicated than that.
But No its not!
Look at
Man U
Arsenal
Real Madrid
Milan
Bayern Munich

Even the so called weaker teams in the premiership like Charlton.

The trick to it is getting players to play it simple and its here were the genius comes in.  Shankly was absolutely fantastic at selecting players to fit his system.  He went all over the place looking for intelligent footballers who knew that keeping it simple was in fact the key to success. 

Just think of the number of teams who were littered with so called skilful players who can turn players inside out, measure their success against hard work and simplistic play.  Some people here might argue what about Real Madrid.  I tell you when they keep it simple they are unstopable.  Why?

Well that brings me to my next point.

Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, Daghlish, Busby,Stein, Ferguson, Ramsey  brought in players to fit the system.  They did not bring players in and change the system around them.  Additionally the players were the best that was available not the most popular in the media, not the golden boy, They were players like Hamann those that quietly went about their bussiness.  If the Golden boys existed they were created later by the media.  So Madrid are so good like we once where because they paly simplefootball and have the best players to do that.  The don't have Ronaldhino's or step over kings they have great players who do simple things simply brilliantly. 

Their are so many veiws now on this board, that conflict with these truths.  I have friends who are faithful to Houlier and they know how I think about him but they never doubt me nor I they because we have something in common.  We all aspire to see the simple football return to Anfield we just think that there are different ways of getting there. 

If Houlier pulls of a miracle and acheives something this year then I will be happy to eat my words but trurthfully I doubt it because everything is getting far too complicated for me, even the meaning of what a true fan is.

Stop attacking people for their veiws, this is a forum where views can be expressed so lets get back to basics

and lets start keeping it simple.

[JBG]

Hear hear, Big Al.

I too want a return to basics.

I'm not living in the past, but I honestly feel that they best way to win things is to play 4-4-2 with hard working and disciplined players who sweat blood, tackle hard, and play possession football.

It obviously helps to have good players to fit this system but the system itself is sound. It has been tried and tested since the 1970s to date and has proved highly successful for a legion of teams, world wide.

I will always maintain that you will not win serious tophies if you easily squander possession like Liverpool do.

Things have got so complicated at Liverpool lately that my heads spins.

A return to the values of Daglish's sides would be a step in the right direction.

[THEBARON]

Yes I'm in complete agreement. 2 other points to add;
( 1 ) It helps if you have players who are comfortable on the ball and pass the ball accurately and effectively.
( 2 ) Surely if you sit back and play a counter attacking game you are giving the iniative to the opposition. They naturally have more posession and are more likely to create more chances. The great Liverpool teams defended from the front.

[Dalglish]

Very god post big Al, I agree witht eh majority if not all you have said. Shanks would still cut it in todays game because as you stated the best teams today are those that are comfortable ont eh ball, pass precisely and work hard when they haven't got the ball as much as when they have. I liike Houllier as a man and it bothers me when fans are so flippant about him as  a person and his achievements at this great club , yes achievements. In the final analysis it will depend on what it has always depended on and thats results whether LFC release GH at the end of this season. I understand the expectation of LFC and its fans, i just hope they show the same courtesy and dignity to GH as he has shown football in his time here.......Walk On ....

[big al]

Dalglish your closing veiws are noted, I have to say that I am becoming more flipant and annoyed with Houlier as time wears on.  Perhaps I should be less abrupt about him and concentrate more on those who allow him to ruin this club.  The thread of your point got me thinking am I judging him too harshly.  So I have a simple question

If Houleir is a good manager he will surely stick to his strength IE youth development.  If any Houlier loyalist can tell me 3 premiership players to emerge from the youth system during his 5 year reign I will stop slating him.  I could name at least 8 from Fergie, 4 or 5 Wenger  4 O'Leary .
Houleir has arguably the best Youth facilities in the world that's according to Kees Zwamborn of Ajax and he should know.  Zwamborn runs probably the best youth development system in world football, yet he said that Liverpools academy in Kirby was by far the best youth facilties in football.  So we've got the resources so we'res the players.  I know maybe its all Steve Highways fault after all he runs the youth development or maybe our scouts are cr#p or maybe just maybe our manager is the problem. OH you don't say!

[Dalglish]

I suspect everyones wearing a bit thin with GH at the moment Big Al, my point was that some fans wear thinner quicker !!

The Youth System Q ? Well  Manchester United DID havea very successful period in the early 90's bringing the younger players through, however you will find that they tend to poach young players to OT these days , they have recieved fines for doing it but you don't read that in the media.  The Academy has underachieved since the ilk of Gerard came through but seriously how many Gerard's do you think are out there anyway ? Arsenal haven;'t exactly blooded youngsters either preferring to buy "French" or Brazilians and granted Arsene has bought better than GH has !!!!!!!! LFC are caught between trying to build and find young players who can graduate through the Academy and buying big as most fans seem to say.

My point isn't "Keep Gh at all costs" as I believe he will most probably go ast the end of this season, just that if he does the club show him a hell of a lot more appreciation and respect than the majority of fans do at the moment .....

[redandblue]

Er, Dalglish, sorry but disagree. GH deserves to be shown the door. Don't talk about dignity. He has dragged this club into mediocrity and his ego comes first. He is a condescending, patronising pillock.

He could have gone with dignity after his illness. But no, he had to stay on. He is an idiot who deserves to be treated as a clown. I was at White Hart Lane on Saturday. The Spurs fans were actually sniggering and laughing at us. It was the first time in my life that I have ever been embarrassed to be a Liverpool fan.

GH is a joke. Amd he has turned the most successful team in the country into a joke. That's his legacy.

Al........I agree with you well though out analysis!!

[Dalglish]

You are entitled to your opinion and I will now have mine ........... calling ANY manager of LFC an idiot,a clown, a joke and a pillock IS a lack of respect for the manager of this great club.

[Dalglish]

And stop kissing Big Al's ***** you Psychopant:p

[redandblue]

GH is a pillock and an idiot who doesn't deserve any respect. He shouldn't be at this club.

You should take spelling lessons and grow up.

[greenred]

Houllier has called supporters who disagree with him "fools" and "ignorant".Its a two way street.

[big al]

Dalglish I hear what your saying mate Fergie is a bloody poacher and should be brought up for it.  But sometimes I have to admire his tactics he's putting the club above his own interest.  For instance if he does get sanctioned for it the club will stand back and let him get the balme Ok behind the scenes he'll get a slap on the back.  Fergies not a nice person and he dosent pretend to be, he's ruthless as a manager and that's his success.(he may even be privately a very nice man)  Houlier on the other hand pretends to be a gentlemna yet behind the scenes he stabs people in the back for his own sake.Ie Fowler, Westerveld, etc

He would let Liverpool sink if it preserved his own feeble reputation.  Don't be fooled by him I personally know two ex reserve team players, who hate him with a passion.  As for the youth system  Fact is we lost Rooney to Everton  because of a lack of personal touch. 

Fergie wanted Giggs, he personally went to his home, he got in with his parents and he left Giggs no option.  Houlier is distant and is miles behind this type of operator.  Don't forget the lies that fergie told Slyvestre to sign him from under Liverpools nose. His lies benefit Man U.  Yes Slyvestre is now playing centre back but only when fergie had decided that's were he should be. 

I think its important to compare. I love Liverpool but I also love football so although it hurts its important to acknowledge better teams. 

Its a simple philosophy.
1.Where are we?
2.Where do we want to be?
3. How do we get there?
Answers
1.Below the best
2.The best
3. By playing a better game

sometimes that means giving someting up, For Shankly it was his private life, for Fergie its his reputation, For houlier it has to be his ego.

[big al]

Houliers an Idiot I said it so sue me!  I love Liverpool fc and won't let stupid idiots destroy a great club and national institution.  Houlier should be in a different kind of institution!

[Dalglish]

Ohhhh throwing your rattle out the pram are we ? You seem to quite like abusing and insulting everyone else yet appear not to appreciate it when its directed at you ...... Free Speech cuts both ways my friend .... For the record I've just got back from Wolves and it wasn't pretty but unlike yourself I don't resort to cheap insults

[Dalglish]

That above message was menat for Red and Blue NOT Big Al , i shal ltake time to reply to your articulate points some other time cos i'm knackered and quite frankly Pi***** off after travelling to see what most fans on here would say is our STRONGEST possible 11 play a second half against a  very ordinary Wolves side and get outplayed, outfought and ultimately out sung on the terraces......