Who else do we need? - Weak areas,replacements

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby aCe' » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:16 am

baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
bigmick wrote:Listen Baldy :D don't be daft. Last season we ended up having to play Martin Skyrtel at right back because we had no credible cover. We had to play Javier masherano at right back ditto, we had Fabio Aurelio playing in central midfield, and more than once we had Dirk Kuyt up front ???. Nobody is saying either that the squad is sh!t, the team is sh!t, or that we need World Class players in every position. What some people are saying is that the cover needs to be credible.

Now in terms of centre back cover, it isn't credible becasue it doesn't exist. We only have three recognised centre backs, albeit one of them being Carragher who as you said yesterday is in your opinion the best centre half in the Premiership. I'm not saying we should go out and buy the second best centre half in the Premiership (Rio Ferdinand maybe  ??? ) but I am saying we should buy one who can actually play in the Premiership.

As I pointed out yesterday Skrtel (still not Skrytel) and Mascherano (still has a C in it which is why Masherano is incorrect) played at right back when a) Arbeloa was injured. b) Degen was injured. c) Darby was injured. d) Carragher refused to play there. What would you suggest the manager did in that situation? Would you have asked Sammy Lee to kit up? Would you have moved Torres to right back?

Aurelio into the centre of midfield. I imagine you mean the Portsmouth game in which Aurelio was named man of the match, but what a silly move that was. This despite Aurelio playing in the middle of the park on numerous occasions for Rafa at Valencia.

Kuyt playing up front. Well what a silly thing to do, playing a forward up front. Shock horror, call the press quickly. And judging by your recent remarks about not rating Ngog or Babel too highly, who would you have played up front? Would you have again asked Sammy Lee to kit up or would it have Pellegrino's time this time out? Would you have thrown Torres up front while the lad was injured? Would you have kept the prolific Robbie Keane and asked him to do a job he couldn't?

Even with all of these problems we still scored more than any other side last year, we lost less than anybody else last year, we had the best goal difference in the league. So again just because we have to mess about with our formation we suddenly have a poor squad?

Well for your information, Wayne Rooney was played on the left wing plenty of times last year despite United having this fantastic squad. Anelka was used as a left winger in Chelsea's all mighty squad. Essien has been used as a right back for Chelsea as has Hargreaves at United. John O'Shea has played here, there and everywhere in these fantastic squads.

When injuries hit, which for us they did last year, you have to move players around. It wasn't because of lack of quality or depth in the squad because if it was United and Chelsea wouldn't be poncing around with their sides would they? Considering the injuries we had last year, we done more than well enough.

isnt that the reason we're calling for new players to come in :O  ... so we wouldnt have to resort to playing X at RB or CM or whatever...

Fact is, we lost the league last season because we lost Torres and Gerrard to injuries for a big part of the season.. Add some other factors to that like the Keane thing (job he couldnt do ?! and Kuyt the forward shock horror ?! get real !), negative tactics..etc etc and its obvious we need better players who would be ready to come on and consistently make a difference when our starting players are unavailable...
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Postby red37 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:21 am

baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
red37 wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:As I pointed out yesterday Skrtel (still not Skrytel) and Mascherano (still has a C in it which is why Masherano is incorrect)


Ronaldo also has a 'D' in it.
 


Couldn't resist that one. Oh and its Aguero as well..... :D

They're not Liverpool players. If there were I'd be concerned if I misspelt them, but point noted nonetheless.


It's 'they' by the way 


Only pullin yer pi55er!  :laugh:
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Postby baldricks_cunning_plan » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:23 am

Negative tactics of course which is why we scored more goals than anybody else. Of course, silly me. I thought negative tactics were to defend at all times but what do I know.

Also you must think United and Chelsea need better players as they've played Hargreaves and Essien at right back with O'Shea and Beletti in the middle of the park. OK, so do they need better players as well? It's only you seem to think it's OK for them to do so but when we do it, it's wrong. At least you're consistent in your views if nothing else eh aCe?
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Postby baldricks_cunning_plan » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:24 am

red37 wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
red37 wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:As I pointed out yesterday Skrtel (still not Skrytel) and Mascherano (still has a C in it which is why Masherano is incorrect)


Ronaldo also has a 'D' in it.
 


Couldn't resist that one. Oh and its Aguero as well..... :D

They're not Liverpool players. If there were I'd be concerned if I misspelt them, but point noted nonetheless.


It's 'they' by the way 


Only pullin yer pi55er!  :laugh:

Ah that's who's hand it is down there?  :D
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Postby JoeTerp » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:26 am

red37 wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:As I pointed out yesterday Skrtel (still not Skrytel) and Mascherano (still has a C in it which is why Masherano is incorrect)


Ronaldo also has a 'D' in it.
 


Couldn't resist that one. Oh and its Aguero as well..... :D

actually its "Agüero"
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Postby Scottbot » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:33 am

bigmick wrote:Centre half is our most pressing need as of now. At least if Torres is injured we have options to replace him, whether or not they are viable remains to be seen but at least we have some. If Agger and/or Carragher and Skyrtel aren't fit, we don't it seems to me have ANY viable options. Now no doubt someone will tell me off for forgetting about the Mexican 15 year old we have waiting in the wings, but we absolutely MUST have genuine, experienced centre backs and we must have four, not three.

Fully agree with that, the forward can come in as late as transfer deadline day so long as it's someone of decent kwality, we can get by for now. But centre-half is urgent given the fitness of Carra, Skrtel and the perpetually injured Agger. Turner is a great shout if the money is there and I see we were linked with Shawcross at Stoke today who is another good shout for me. Big strong kid who was a youth player for the mancs until 18 months ago so he's been in a decent set-up.
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Postby aCe' » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:36 am

baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:Negative tactics of course which is why we scored more goals than anybody else. Of course, silly me. I thought negative tactics were to defend at all times but what do I know.

Also you must think United and Chelsea need better players as they've played Hargreaves and Essien at right back with O'Shea and Beletti in the middle of the park. OK, so do they need better players as well? It's only you seem to think it's OK for them to do so but when we do it, it's wrong. At least you're consistent in your views if nothing else eh aCe?

:kungfu:

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Postby baldricks_cunning_plan » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:44 am

aCe' wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:Negative tactics of course which is why we scored more goals than anybody else. Of course, silly me. I thought negative tactics were to defend at all times but what do I know.

Also you must think United and Chelsea need better players as they've played Hargreaves and Essien at right back with O'Shea and Beletti in the middle of the park. OK, so do they need better players as well? It's only you seem to think it's OK for them to do so but when we do it, it's wrong. At least you're consistent in your views if nothing else eh aCe?

:kungfu:

Main Menu, General Chat... lovely people and they talk about crayons, rainbows and all sorts of lovely stuff... Even hold an annual spelling bee, you're a shoe in lad    :;):

Ah the good old fashioned admittance of being unable to counter an argument. No valid counter argument we resort to silly, petulant remarks. Thank you.
Last edited by baldricks_cunning_plan on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JoeTerp » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:55 am

bigmick wrote:The back up for Masherano Joe is Lucas, Gerrard and Spearing. Might not be the deepest list of back ups, but it's longer than our three centre halves list. We had this a couple of seasons ago when we missed out on Heinz, we went in with 3 and within a couple of weeks we were fecked. You could even argue that we desperately need a FIRST CHOICE centre half (I have in the past), but whatever, everyone needs four not three at the start of the season.

Lucas  himself is going to be a starting for possibly the next two months. Gerrard also starts in his own position, which calls for double changes which can cause double the disruption to the team.  Also, Lucas cannot exactly do the same kinds of things that Mascherano gives us
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Postby aCe' » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:02 am

JoeTerp wrote:
bigmick wrote:The back up for Masherano Joe is Lucas, Gerrard and Spearing. Might not be the deepest list of back ups, but it's longer than our three centre halves list. We had this a couple of seasons ago when we missed out on Heinz, we went in with 3 and within a couple of weeks we were fecked. You could even argue that we desperately need a FIRST CHOICE centre half (I have in the past), but whatever, everyone needs four not three at the start of the season.

Lucas  himself is going to be a starting for possibly the next two months. Gerrard also starts in his own position, which calls for double changes which can cause double the disruption to the team.  Also, Lucas cannot exactly do the same kinds of things that Mascherano gives us

If we bring in a decent backup for Torres we can always go back to playing a 4-4-2 with any 2 of the fit CMs  playing there...

To me, a backup FW is a much higher priority than a backup CM although i wouldnt have minded Parker coming in as 3rd choice perhaps ahead of Lucas for the role you're suggesting...
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Postby aCe' » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:18 am

baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
aCe' wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:Negative tactics of course which is why we scored more goals than anybody else. Of course, silly me. I thought negative tactics were to defend at all times but what do I know.

Also you must think United and Chelsea need better players as they've played Hargreaves and Essien at right back with O'Shea and Beletti in the middle of the park. OK, so do they need better players as well? It's only you seem to think it's OK for them to do so but when we do it, it's wrong. At least you're consistent in your views if nothing else eh aCe?

:kungfu:

Main Menu, General Chat... lovely people and they talk about crayons, rainbows and all sorts of lovely stuff... Even hold an annual spelling bee, you're a shoe in lad    :;):

Ah the good old fashioned admittance of being unable to counter an argument. No valid counter argument we resort to silly, petulant remarks. Thank you.

What argument ? you call that nonsense you come up with an argument ?!

lets just go over this one last time maybe you'll follow this time around..

ManUtd, Chelsea, even Arsenal and ManCity have more quality in depth than we do... OUTSIDE THE STARTING 11, THEY HÄVE BETTER PLAYER THAN WE DO...

As for your examples of other sides having to play players out of position due to injuries, its fcking pointless aswell.. Chelsea have Bosingwa, Belleti, Ivanovic, Ferreira for the RB spot.. if they all get injured at the same time its just luck deserting them, cant blame the manager for not being prepared.. same with ManUtd who have Rafael, Neville, Brown, Oshea, who are all comfortable playing the role... Oshea at CM, ages ago dont see how its relevant but anyways ... Anderson, Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher, Hargreaves....

OUR PROBLEM is that we dont have those options to call on in some positions... sure we can bring on the kids Jose and Ayala to play if our injury prone defenders get injured but then again that would cost us points... Upfront we have Ngog, Voronin, Nemeth, maybe Babel... not good enough in a million years if Torres gets injured... i put up that list for you in the other thread i thought you'd have a look at it and realize you were just being an idiot and arguing for the sake of it, instead you went on to argue about how the likes of Spearing, Darby..etc were "quality backup" ..

theres absolutely no point in going over this again.. lets just leave it at that....
Last edited by aCe' on Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby we all dream... » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:28 am

what happened with the Scott Parker signing, suppose with Aquilani being brought in Rafa has put it on the back burner.

I agree that a back up striker is more essential than a CM but still feel we need back up CB more. All 3 off our centre backs will be scrutunised for different reasons this season:

Whether Cara is losing some of his briliance through age
Whether Agger has the desire to play and shows more maturity.
Whether Skrtel will make that step up by cutting out his lapses of concentetion and rash tackles.

With both Agger and Skrtel often picking up knocks alongside the individual worries we should secure a centre back. The main thing to look at us how many games big Sami played last season. That number would need to be spread out across the other 3 we have left which could leave us in trouble.

I agree that we have a good squad but I certaunly thunk it could do with a couple of additions.
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Postby ConnO'var » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:36 am

Spelling contest? Been awhile for me...

:D :D :D

To get back to the topic......

We need an additional :

1. Centrehalf
2. Right winger/forward and striker
3. Right back

Depends on how we're gonna set-up this season though.
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Postby aCe' » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:43 am

ConnO'var wrote:Spelling contest? Been awhile for me...

:D :D :D

To get back to the topic......

We need:

1. Centrehalf
2. Right winger/forward and striker
3. Right back

Depends on how we're gonna set-up this season though.

unless we play a formation with 1 CB and 1/2 a forward... i dont see how it depends on how we set up  :D
Last edited by aCe' on Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ConnO'var » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:48 am

aCe' wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:To get back to the topic......

We need an additional :

1. Centrehalf
2. Right winger/forward and striker
3. Right back

Depends on how we're gonna set-up this season though.

unless we play a formation with 1 CB and 1/2 a forward... i dont see how it depends on how we set up  :D

:D  :D  :D

Cheeky git!

edited in the post above!
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