Liverpool FC Forum

[Fauxy]

[mart]

[quote="bigmick"][/quote]
Ryan Babel - Talented player but unfortunately no football brain to match it. He will score one or two wondergoals to keep people thinking he is talented and suck the rest of the time.

Alberto Aquilani - A very good player i think could end up as one of our key players this season.

Danny Pacheco - Probably wont get much gametime this year either. But is talented enough to turn into something special if roy has faith in him.

Martin Skyrtel - good player that seems to have lost his confidence after a series of injuries. Hopefully he will be back to his best. If he is he might just push carra out of the starting lineup.

Albert Riera. - Good player, and our only real winger. Unforunately it seems he is a bit of a kunt. Will probably be sold this summer.

The Greek bloke - Good defender that should be able to challenge for a spot in the starting lineup.

Phillip Degen. - too injury prone.

[Kharhaz]

Nemeth. If given the chance, he could prove that we had that prolific striker all along.

[Fauxy]

Yeh Nemeth is a good little player. It depends how Roy sets us up though.

If we play with two strikers then he can do a good job. But Nemeth as lone striker would get bullied.

[Scottbot]

So the question is really a follow up from Roy saying this morning that players who were on the fringe will be looking to make a point. Who if any will and save us a few quid?

Firstly, lets consider the candidates in no particular order, players who it's fair to say haven't really fulfilled their potential as of yet.

Ryan Babel. Pro's- Very pacey, with a good shot and a modicum of skill. Minuses- A bit of a doughnut, a bit clueless and not exactly full of backbone. One thing we can pretty much all agree on surely is that Babel isn't a winger, and not a left winger at that. Surely if he is going to make it with us, it will be as a striker. Can he play alongside Torres though if our star man remains? Untrusted by the previous management and unloved by the fans, can the Dutchman find it in him from somewhere?

Alberto Aquilani. Pro's- good vision and lovely touch, the Italian is very obviously a talented footballer. Minus's-injury prone and not by the looks of it too fond of the more physical stuff. When he did play last season, there were usually flashes of something there. He got a few assists against admittedly poor teams, and scored an excellent goal in Europe. Untrusted by the previous management, can Alberto step up to the plate and be our Gerrard replacement should our captain be tempted away?

Danny Pacheco. Pro's- obviously talented. Minuses- Looks about 12 and you have to be concerned about his physicality. Probably the shining hope of the "superkids" who we trawled the length and breadth of the globe to sign, but has Pacheco got the ability to influence games at the top level consistently. If he has, where do you play him?

Martin Skyrtel. Pro's- No nonsense defender who at his best is a good player. Strangely, a good runner with the ball at his feet. Minus's- does have a tendency to switch off and ball watch. Was a regular two seasons ago but then injuries and loss of form set him back. Could he be the answer if Carra's legs have gone?

Albert Riera. Pro's- Sweet left foot, decent shot and excellent in the air. Minus's- A bit fragile, never seems able to influence a game after the hour mark, and an unusually square head. Fell out with the previous management and therefore with the majority of the fans, but can Albert come back to his best and cement his place in the team?

The Greek bloke. Pro's- Excellent in the air, whole hearted and can score a goal from centre half. Minuses, I think I'm quicker than him. Bought as a stop gap bit part player, could it be that this fella can be our no nonsense stopper?

Phillip Deggan. Pro's- Decent going forward. Minuses-Everything else.



There's probably others who I've forgotten, but my main hopes are Ryan Babel and Albert Riera. If (and it's a big if) Roy could unlock the potential of Babel and we played with him and Torres up top, we'd have pace and power to burn. If Albert Riera can rediscover his best form, the team would instantly have more balance and quality. I also think that we may grow to like Lucas a bit more once he's stopped holding hands with Masherano (who will be sold), and perhaps Aquilani might come to the party if Gerrard goes.

Good thread. If we're going to have any kind of a season this time around we probably need at least 2 of these players to come in and have a really good year. and a couple of the others to make real contributions. If I could pick two to really step it up this season it would have to be Babel and Aquilani. These two have the biggest up-side I think. I think most people agree that Aquilani is a talented player but it's a big challenge to find a system/players to get the best out of him. If Hodgson can do that, and Aqua plays 40 games this season then I'm guessing we're having a good season. Of course the flip side is it doesn't work and he barely gets a game. It could go either way. It'll be very interesting to see where Babel fits into Hodgson's set-up, I still don't know that he will see a lot of time through the middle if Torres is playing but the right flank is another option. He's been effective out there a few times in the past and it's always surprised me that Rafa didn't try him right side a little more often. Skrtel is an interesting one, he was fantastic at the beginning of the 2008/09 season (or was it the one before) but then got injured (his jaw i think) and hasn't been the same since. He could do it but i've lost a bit of confidence in the lad and question whether he can be consistent enough.

[Calum]

I always thought Babel was playing out of position on the wing and should play down the middle, but he's had plenty of time to prove himself. Perhaps Roy will get far more out of him than Rafa did. I hope so.

I thought Riera had gone. In the same boat as Babel, but won't be sorry if he's sold this summer.

If Aquilani can stay clear of injuries, he could have a great season. If is a big word, though.

Skyrtel will probably be used more as cover over the season.

I was very impressed by Kyriagos when he came into the side towards the end of the season. I would have him in central defence and Agger at left back.

All the others mentioned did nothing to impress me, as did N'Gog. Boy, the squad is wafer thin. If it stays like this, we'll be battling for 6th or 7th again, sadly.

[Owzat]

I forgot we had Maxi Rodrigez he played so little!

Really?  So we must have imagined those THIRTEEN Premiership starts in a row and three subs appearances. Or maybe you only watched us in Europe where he was cup tied................................

By my reckoning he only missed the last Premiership game after his arrival, either started or was a sub for the rest

[ruskiy playmaker]

If Masch leaves then we will be forced to buy a new holding mid.

We couldnt go through a season with just three midfielders, one of which being injury prone.

Scott Parker is a very good player but West Ham wouldnt let him go cheap and he's already about 30.
Lee Cattermole looks decent but would cost an arm and a leg from fat head bruce.
Cambiasso is a possibility.
Ever Banega from Valencia would be my ideal replacement. Can pick out some AMAZING passes, pretty good in the tackle and has a lot of skill. He isnt reallly the holding type though, he does get forward as well. Would probs cost us a bomb.

Toulalan would be an excellent replacement.  Don't know if he'd want to join though.

[Owzat]

I don't see we necessarily do need to replace Mascherano if he leaves, not with a DM. In the Premiership you play so many sides that you don't really need that out and out DM in, games we should be looking to win. It certainly doesn't bode well that we played two DMs so much last season and didn't have a good season.

Lucas and Mascherano started 25 Premiership games together last season, we lost 10 (40%) compared to just one defeat when only one started

Premiership 09/10

Lucas and Mascherano start together : P25 W8 D7 L10 PTS 31 (out of 75)
Only Lucas starts : P7 W5 D1 L1 PTS 16 (out of 21)
Only Mascherano starts : P6 W5 D1 L0 PTS 16 (out of 18)

So in the 13 games only one of the two started Liverpool won more games and points than in the 25 they started together. They did start all the games against the mancs, Chelsea, Arsenal and spudz, didn't work out too well (P8 W2 D0 L6) which means against the rest they started together against the record was P17 W6 D7 L4 PTS 25 (out of 51) which still isn't that great considering the opposition were generally sides we should have been looking to beat and the key from that stat is too many draws.

Premiership 09/10 (excluding games against ARS/MNU/CHE/TOT)

Lucas or Mascherano start : P13 W10 D2 L1 PTS 22 (drew 15.38%)
Lucas and Mascherano start : P17 W6 D7 L4 PTS 25 (drew 35.29%)

In the four games Mascherano didn't play at all we won three and drew the other, in the three games Lucas didn't feature we won two and drew the other. To me that is all the evidence necessary that the DM role is overused and Lucas' record starting without Mascherano is nearly as good as Mascherano's without Lucas. And to be clear I'm not saying Lucas is better, or as good as Mascherano at what Mascherano does, just that I'm looking at the team picture in terms of results.

Obviously there will be other contributory factors, but I've even taken out the games that were against the top four and I've long believed we should not play a DM against a lot of sides in the Premiership and the stats back that belief - as does the stat of top scorers winning the league a lot of the time. Only villa scored less goals than us last season while finishing above us by ONE POINT, and then only because they lost less games than us despite scoring less and conceding more (so essentially made more use of their goals) Don't get me wrong, a good defence gets you some vital 1-0 wins, but it is noticable that the 09/10 champions failed to score just once last season in the Premiership and won 1-0 only twice. The mancs may have had a lot of 1-0s in 08/09 but against some pretty ordinary sides so they were more results they should have probably scored more goals in (Portsmouth, Hull, Boro, bitters, West Ham, Sunderland, Wigan, Bolton and Stoke among them) and should have won 2-0, 3-0 or better

[bigmick]

Owz's stats on the Lucas/Masherano axis are truly incredible. How can it be that not only everybody can see with their own eyes that's a disaster as a partnership, and the stats so clearly indicate it's a disaster as a partnership, but the manager keeps on picking it regardless? Absolutely unbelieveable really.

This is why I'm very happy we've got Roy here and am very confident we can improve our league position.

[Igor Zidane]

Owz's stats on the Lucas/Masherano axis are truly incredible. How can it be that not only everybody can see with their own eyes that's a disaster as a partnership, and the stats so clearly indicate it's a disaster as a partnership, but the manager keeps on picking it regardless? Absolutely unbelieveable really.

This is why I'm very happy we've got Roy here and am very confident we can improve our league position.

Unless Roy plays Lucas and Mascherano together that is ? 

[Roger Red Hat]

If it stays like this, we'll be battling for 6th or 7th again, sadly.

but it's the same team that finished four points off the top the season before. 

[Redman in wales]

If it stays like this, we'll be battling for 6th or 7th again, sadly.

but it's the same team that finished four points off the top the season before. 

I dont agree with calum, however just to play devils advocate, I can see where he's coming from. Arsenal have/can strengthen since then. Man city have bought Silva/Toure to add to their ranks, spurs will almost certainly improve their squad this summer. We might have the same team that finished 2nd (minus alonso) but everyone else has strengthened

[bigmick]

Most other teams have strengthened, but we may still yet. As the topic of this thread indicates, we may have one or two unpolished diamonds waiting in the wings to come through. Even if we were to finish seventh though (and I don't think we will even if Torres, Masherano AND Gerrard leave), the most important thing is that the new manager comes as close as possible to maximising the assets at his disposal. That's his challenge, and obviously we won't really know where we sit against all the other teams until everyone has concluded their Summer wheelings and dealings.

One thing which is extremely pleasing when you come onto the forum these days is that there seems to be a much more positive vibe around the place. While I was excluded, I popped by a couple of times and the mood was positively suicidal. Anyone who so much as predicted we might win the odd game was howled down from the rafters by posters who had got themselves into a proper state about various goings on. These days, while nobody is predicting we're going to win the league, most people it seems to me have come to terms with the fact we have new management and that it may not necessarily be the end of the World.

You only have to read Owzats stats on the Lucas/Masherano axis to see that there is definately improvement to be had if we do things a little differently. As Igor said in jest, there is always the possibility that Roy will believe in the partnership also, and will keep playing it all season even in the face of the overwhelming evidence. Anything is possible, but I'm hopeful our new man won't do that. Not just hopeful, I'm positive he won't.

[Benny The Noon]

Going by previous season it seems the only person who was truly out in the cold was Reira after his remarks about the club and the supposed hitting of a youth player - not sure if he will ever play again .
If we played with the same front line formation as the Dutch then babel might prove useful but despite his talent ( which IMO isn't that good ) I just don't think he has the game intelligence to succeed .

Coming higher than 7th is very achievable if the top stars are kept if we loose them then it's a different story - latest reports are linking us with Taylor from Newcastle and a guy from costa rica - not players to push us back up - if we did loose the top players IMO it would be hard to replace them with us not being in the CL