Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

Doesn't make sense... Rafa is the one asking for more investments on players... and if we don't get CL football the money men will earn less money...

Agreed, on both counts. He's basically maintained the view that the club needs investment. He said so a few years ago, a few months or so ago, and he said so last week. Doesn't suggest a man motivated to protect his contract by "keeping quiet". And now it's been accepted he's "had a moan", by their own logic, that motive couldn't have been present a few months ago when they suggested it.

On the "money men" point  Any prospective owner cannot escape the fact that in order to maximise their investment in the club we have to be challenging for the top honours fairly regularly. How do you go about filling a 70,000 seater stadium if the team you've bought has ambitions little higher than a top four finish? How do you improve upon or maintain recent commercial successes if the team you've bought continues to play in the Europa league, where the football is unattractive and where the best players might look to leave the club? If that's where we're headed with Rafa - and people on here have said and implied as much - then it's an absolute no brainer for the money men; pay the severance fee and bring in the new guy.

[tonyeh]

I'd get rid of him in a flash, and I think just about any one of dozens of candidates will be an improvement.

Totally agree this season's results can be improved by alot of the managers... but can they improve on the 82 point and 86 point seasons Mick? isn't that what matters? to be challenging for the league?

Possibly.

It's not too far a stretch to say that if Liverpool had had a different manager last year they would have won the title.

[account deleted by request]

Agreed, on both counts. He's basically maintained the view that the club needs investment. He said so a few years ago, a few months or so ago, and he said so last week. Doesn't suggest a man motivated to protect his contract by "keeping quiet". And now it's been accepted he's "had a moan", by their own logic, that motive couldn't have been present a few months ago when they suggested it.

Unsurprisingly I disagree, the only reason he is having a moan now is because his job is back on the line and he is hoping either to get his £16million and disappear into the sunset by upsetting the board, or to establish his excuses before settling down for a summer of discontent.

If he was moaning to actually achieve something he would have done it while the transfer window was open ....or about to open. Not when the season is finished.

[LFC2007]

Unsurprisingly I disagree, the only reason he is having a moan now is because his job is back on the line and he is hoping either to get his £16million and disappear into the sunset by upsetting the board, or to establish his excuses before settling down for a summer of discontent.

If he was moaning to actually achieve something he would have done it while the transfer window was open ....or about to open. Not when the season is finished.

Why is his job now "back on the line"? I thought he'd jumped into bed with Hicks, sold his soul, heart and the club down the river and as such had the "safest job in football". That meant he got to keep his "big fat contract", the owners felt "protected" as Rafa draws the support of the fans and it was said to be a marriage made in heaven/hell. His job couldn't possibly, at all, ever, be "back on the line".

[account deleted by request]

Unsurprisingly I disagree, the only reason he is having a moan now is because his job is back on the line and he is hoping either to get his £16million and disappear into the sunset by upsetting the board, or to establish his excuses before settling down for a summer of discontent.

If he was moaning to actually achieve something he would have done it while the transfer window was open ....or about to open. Not when the season is finished.

Why is his job now "back on the line"? I thought he'd jumped into bed with Hicks, sold his soul, heart and the club down the river and as such had the "safest job in football". That meant he got to keep his "big fat contract", the owners felt "protected" as Rafa draws the support of the fans and it was said to be a marriage made in heaven/hell. His job couldn't possibly, at all, ever, be "back on the line".

He did mate, but as you will no doubt remember, the board makes the decisions now ..... not Hicks.

His job being "on the line" is more to do with Rafa Benitez I think than the board. He has got his excuses in early, upset the board, and now hopes for the big payoff , sadly I think he has underestimated the reluctance of the board to give him £16million for nothing and it will be a case of who blinks first. Juventus won't hang around for ever , but neither can we hang around waiting for him to jump. Which is why I presume he started moaning in the rather vain hope of accelerating the situation.

Notice how it was only AFTER Hicks gave up control that Rafa first started moaning. Coincidence........I think not 

[LFC2007]

"At this moment the club has a big name and a big history and everyone is expecting us to be at the top," said Benitez.

"But in reality we don't have enough money so we have to manage the expectation."

"Jamie Carragher and Fernando Torres were talking about needing between three and five players and I agree with them," said Benitez.

"We will need those to have a stronger team."

"When I was asked about this I didn't say how much but a top-class player is around £15million so you can do the numbers - but it depends on the investors."


Feck me, how a board could tolerate such inflammatory remarks is utterly beyond me 

[The Good Yank]

I voted for option 1.  But if I had a choice I'd have voted for all of the above. 

A three man bike with Rafa leading the way would be a welcome site right now.

[maguskwt]

I'd get rid of him in a flash, and I think just about any one of dozens of candidates will be an improvement.

Totally agree this season's results can be improved by alot of the managers... but can they improve on the 82 point and 86 point seasons Mick? isn't that what matters? to be challenging for the league?

Possibly.

It's not too far a stretch to say that if Liverpool had had a different manager last year they would have won the title.

Wow I can't believe what I'm hearing... So apparently, the fact that we broke our premier league point total 2 times under rafa has feck all to do with rafa, the team apparently 'auto' achieved that, and if it was another manager he would've done better ...

[leep33]

Definately has to be new owners.

[Owzat]

Other...we need changes on both fronts for a fresh start.  I'm hoping to see everyone think the same.

Exactly. No point pouring money down the drain so we need a manager who doesn't waste it and is so up himself he disregarded the need for a second striker - he even said we didn't need one after he sold Keane

£20.3m on Keane
£20m on Aquilani
£17.5m on Johnson
£8m on Riera
£3m on Cavalieri

Two summers of budget spent and not a lot to show for it. None of 08/09 signings are to be seen playing, this season's signings are better but still overpriced.

I fear that given £60m+ to spend in a summer it will be similar names/quality, bigger fees. And some of any money coming in would be best spent on a new manager since all Rafa's faults won't be gone regardless how much money he spends.

So for me the manager has to be changed, I'd like new owners but that is going to happen at the current owners' pace not by our wishing. Of course if we get new owners that might lumber us with two or more seasons more of Rafa and that might see Torres et al clear off, they must be on the brink as it is without more Rafa

[maguskwt]

Doesn't make sense... Rafa is the one asking for more investments on players... and if we don't get CL football the money men will earn less money...

Agreed, on both counts. He's basically maintained the view that the club needs investment. He said so a few years ago, a few months or so ago, and he said so last week. Doesn't suggest a man motivated to protect his contract by "keeping quiet". And now it's been accepted he's "had a moan", by their own logic, that motive couldn't have been present a few months ago when they suggested it.

On the "money men" point  Any prospective owner cannot escape the fact that in order to maximise their investment in the club we have to be challenging for the top honours fairly regularly. How do you go about filling a 70,000 seater stadium if the team you've bought has ambitions little higher than a top four finish? How do you improve upon or maintain recent commercial successes if the team you've bought continues to play in the Europa league, where the football is unattractive and where the best players might look to leave the club? If that's where we're headed with Rafa - and people on here have said and implied as much - then it's an absolute no brainer for the money men; pay the severance fee and bring in the new guy.

Totally agree lfc, rafa has never been a yes man, he has always pointed out what the club needs. He was labeled as 'moaning' and 'washing dirty linen in public' ... And now this season, after the summer transfer kitty fiasco, because he kept relatively quiet, he's now being labeled as an unambitious yes man.

[jacdaniel]

I'd get rid of him in a flash, and I think just about any one of dozens of candidates will be an improvement.

Totally agree this season's results can be improved by alot of the managers... but can they improve on the 82 point and 86 point seasons Mick? isn't that what matters? to be challenging for the league?

Possibly.

It's not too far a stretch to say that if Liverpool had had a different manager last year they would have won the title.

Thats a ridiculous comment.  We did brilliant last season with Rafa's team! 

If Torres and Gerrard had of being fit more often, we probably would have won.  (They only started something like 20 matches together).

We've done this season cos of injuries, lack of money, and bad decisions by the manager as well.  All of the above had a major impact on the teams confidence. 

BTW, im starting to think we'd be better off without Rafa too but you can't deny the man his achievements. 

I guess if we had another manager, we would have won the champions league and Premier league in 2005??

[JohnBull]

If Rafa was getting the VERY BEST out of the players he's got now I could go along with his moans about "No Money".
If he was getting the team playing to their limit you could say that "If only he had this player or that superstar things would be different".
The formations he plays and the positions where he puts square pegs in round holes makes ME doubt his managerial ability.
I keep getting the impression that Rafa's "bigger picture" clouds his judgement and he tries to force players into systems and positions that they are just not suited to.
Every team (including Chelsea & City) have a budget they have to work to. Theirs are much larger than ours so it was a question of Rafa making the best of it as it is. It's too easy to keep moaning that we never had the funds. Just WHO are these players we never signed because we couldn't afford them ?
Reina/Torres are the players they are because of the men they are, not because Rafa cleverly saw some hidden promise in them. I certainly feel that Rafa should have spent more time talking to propesctive buys rather than looking at videos of their career highlights and falling for the hype.

G&H are con merchants but the skullduggery between them and Moores does not hide the fact that Rafa has NOT got the best out of the players he's had and THAT is the true test of a good Manager.

[Sir Roger]

So he agrees that we need four or five players? He would though wouldnt he? New players, like new toys at christmas are lovely, but they cant hide the fact that he is indirectly saying the players weve got, who he bought, are not good enough.
It is an admission of failure on Rafas part that he has fu'cked up with his transfers and therefore his management is poor.

[supersub]

I voted for option 1.  But if I had a choice I'd have voted for all of the above. 

A three man bike with Rafa leading the way would be a welcome site right now.

that would make them the "goodies" not the baddies