Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

I have already said in the summer

Good thought provoking post, well done. 

[The_Rock]

I've done all this but it got moved in case it upset Lando.

Tonights fiasco was just another example of a man losing the plot. Who TF is bigger than the club now? He can spit his dummy out all he wants but the club, MY club is bigger than his ego.

If he couldn't see that Crouch was a "must start" then he's a bloody idiot. We are again playing like strangers with a squad that includes some of the best players I have ever seen at Anfield. There is NO excuse for this team and the common denominator in this equation is Raffa.

Couldn't have said it better myself...... I am really losing confidence in rafa...... If this continues, he WON'T be here next season.

BTW, who gives a sh1t about lando....? We should be allowed to post whatever we want....he ain't a moderator...so who is he to take potshots at members who post criticism...

[account deleted by request]

How Rafa saw the game :-

Having only drawn in Porto and lost at home to Marseille, Liverpool are now bottom of the group, but Benitez remains optimistic: "I was pleased with the performance, but we just could not take our chances.
"When you have 28 attempts on goal as the away side and nearly 60 per cent of possession, that should usually be enough to win the match.
 
"We were punished for one mistake in the first-half having
had so many chances. Their goalkeeper was outstanding but we should have taken more of our chances.
 
"Obviously it is very difficult now for us to get through but I believe we still can. There are three games left and we must win all three, but we can do that."
 
Liverpool face Besiktas next at Anfield and then a home tie with Porto
before their visit to group leaders Marseille for the final group match in December.
 
Benitez said: "We have to wait to see now what we must do, how the numbers add up. The fact that Porto drew with Marseille in the other group game was a help for us, it certainly improves our options."
 
"If we continue to play like we did in this match, with so much
dominance, we have a chance.

LFC.TV

[Effes]

I believe the Valencia fans used to get pi$$ed off with Rafa; but he held firm and in the end succeeded.

Ive got a feeling Rafa will be thinking he's been here before - and will therefore stick to his guns even more resolutely.

There aren't enough players who can produce a bit of brilliance in the final third.

What gets me is this thing aboutr Gerrard having too much passion, therefore taking him off.
A local lad, captain, in a Derby?! Too much passion?

I dont get it - the English game is ALL about passion.
Which is the bit that Rafa hasn't quite sussed.

[redtrader74]

I've done all this but it got moved in case it upset Lando.

Tonights fiasco was just another example of a man losing the plot. Who TF is bigger than the club now? He can spit his dummy out all he wants but the club, MY club is bigger than his ego.

If he couldn't see that Crouch was a "must start" then he's a bloody idiot. We are again playing like strangers with a squad that includes some of the best players I have ever seen at Anfield. There is NO excuse for this team and the common denominator in this equation is Raffa.

Any chance of explaining what Crouch has done to deserve a a starting place? Why would him starting have been so obvious? and how would it have helped the team from seemingly playing like strangers?

IMHO Crouch offers nothing that Kuyt or Voronin do (except a total lack of physical strength and the ability to head to ball further away from the opposition goal, although none of them are special), everyone goes on about playing players in form, so had Rafa not started with Kuyt (two pens against Everton), and Voronin (Played well last few games, linking well, in hindsight cr@p today), then you'd be bleating about rotation again.

In your time as a Liverpool supporter have you ever come across a period of 2 losses in 15 games? and can you confirm you asked for the managers head on each of those times?  Today we did control the game, and had the the majority of the ball, but were blunt up front, i had hopes for Kuyt to do ok this season, and he hasn't delivered, i rather we went with Torres up fornt alone, and played 4-3-3 because our strength is in central midfield.

[account deleted by request]

I've done all this but it got moved in case it upset Lando.

Tonights fiasco was just another example of a man losing the plot. Who TF is bigger than the club now? He can spit his dummy out all he wants but the club, MY club is bigger than his ego.

If he couldn't see that Crouch was a "must start" then he's a bloody idiot. We are again playing like strangers with a squad that includes some of the best players I have ever seen at Anfield. There is NO excuse for this team and the common denominator in this equation is Raffa.

Any chance of explaining what Crouch has done to deserve a a starting place? Why would him starting have been so obvious? and how would it have helped the team from seemingly playing like strangers?

IMHO Crouch offers nothing that Kuyt or Voronin do (except a total lack of physical strength and the ability to head to ball further away from the opposition goal, although none of them are special), everyone goes on about playing players in form, so had Rafa not started with Kuyt (two pens against Everton), and Voronin (Played well last few games, linking well, in hindsight cr@p today), then you'd be bleating about rotation again.

In your time as a Liverpool supporter have you ever come across a period of 2 losses in 15 games? and can you confirm you asked for the managers head on each of those times?  Today we did control the game, and had the the majority of the ball, but were blunt up front, i had hopes for Kuyt to do ok this season, and he hasn't delivered, i rather we went with Torres up fornt alone, and played 4-3-3 because our strength is in central midfield.

Crouch was our TOP SCORER in Europe last season, Kuyt scored only 1 goal in Europe. This was a European match, who would you pick?

Kuyt scored 2 pens so that means he's in form? He has looked like he couldn't score in brothel lately.

[redtrader74]

I don't think any of them are special, Kuyt had the confidence of scoring the winner, however it came about, in a very important game, it may have (before the result) seemed like a good idea for him to play. Voronin, may get better, its quite early, and was one of the better players on Saturday, so surely warranted his spot today. I don't see what Crouch offers in excess of Kuyt or Voronin, and in actuality has many weaknesses in comparison. I know he was top scorer last year, but hasn't looked like scoring this season even in his limited play time.

[Kharhaz]

I don't think any of them are special, Kuyt had the confidence of scoring the winner, however it came about, in a very important game, it may have (before the result) seemed like a good idea for him to play. Voronin, may get better, its quite early, and was one of the better players on Saturday, so surely warranted his spot today. I don't see what Crouch offers in excess of Kuyt or Voronin, and in actuality has many weaknesses in comparison. I know he was top scorer last year, but hasn't looked like scoring this season even in his limited play time.

If his time on the pitch has been limited how can he be expected to score? or indeed look like scoring? He needs a couple of games running to get back to the form he showed last season. Start him against Arsenal he didnt do bad last season against them...

[account deleted by request]

I don't think any of them are special, Kuyt had the confidence of scoring the winner, however it came about, in a very important game, it may have (before the result) seemed like a good idea for him to play. Voronin, may get better, its quite early, and was one of the better players on Saturday, so surely warranted his spot today. I don't see what Crouch offers in excess of Kuyt or Voronin, and in actuality has many weaknesses in comparison. I know he was top scorer last year, but hasn't looked like scoring this season even in his limited play time.

He has scored already this season, even with his limited chances. Personally I would have played Crouch but even if he had played I don't honestly think it would have affected the result overmuch (a draw perhaps rather than a loss) I just dont see Kuyt scoring many and it frustrates the life out of me.

[redtrader74]

I don't think any of them are special, Kuyt had the confidence of scoring the winner, however it came about, in a very important game, it may have (before the result) seemed like a good idea for him to play. Voronin, may get better, its quite early, and was one of the better players on Saturday, so surely warranted his spot today. I don't see what Crouch offers in excess of Kuyt or Voronin, and in actuality has many weaknesses in comparison. I know he was top scorer last year, but hasn't looked like scoring this season even in his limited play time.

If his time on the pitch has been limited how can he be expected to score? or indeed look like scoring? He needs a couple of games running to get back to the form he showed last season. Start him against Arsenal he didnt do bad last season against them...

I expect apparently elite strikers to create, score, and take chances presented to them, in the games he has played he has missed headers completely, or put them in the stand. Where he did at least show effort last year  he has failed to do so this year.

Like i said, the trio are all average, and therefore i don't see why anybody can be so sure that Crouch playing would have made todays result a positive one. It makes sense that players who have just had the high of playing and winning a derby might just have been in a better postion  mentally to do well today.

[112-1077774096]

I don't think any of them are special, Kuyt had the confidence of scoring the winner, however it came about, in a very important game, it may have (before the result) seemed like a good idea for him to play. Voronin, may get better, its quite early, and was one of the better players on Saturday, so surely warranted his spot today. I don't see what Crouch offers in excess of Kuyt or Voronin, and in actuality has many weaknesses in comparison. I know he was top scorer last year, but hasn't looked like scoring this season even in his limited play time.

If his time on the pitch has been limited how can he be expected to score? or indeed look like scoring? He needs a couple of games running to get back to the form he showed last season. Start him against Arsenal he didnt do bad last season against them...

I expect apparently elite strikers to create, score, and take chances presented to them, in the games he has played he has missed headers completely, or put them in the stand. Where he did at least show effort last year  he has failed to do so this year.

Like i said, the trio are all average, and therefore i don't see why anybody can be so sure that Crouch playing would have made todays result a positive one. It makes sense that players who have just had the high of playing and winning a derby might just have been in a better postion  mentally to do well today.

i think whats being said is the two forwards on the pitch were not doing it so crouch should have been introduced much earlier, he couldn't have done any worse and to be fair he couldn't alter things whilst sat on the bench.

its about time rafa admitted his mistake with kuyt rather than persevere with him, and its about time crouch got a run in the team, like i say he cant do any worse than the other two

[redtrader74]

I don't think any of them are special, Kuyt had the confidence of scoring the winner, however it came about, in a very important game, it may have (before the result) seemed like a good idea for him to play. Voronin, may get better, its quite early, and was one of the better players on Saturday, so surely warranted his spot today. I don't see what Crouch offers in excess of Kuyt or Voronin, and in actuality has many weaknesses in comparison. I know he was top scorer last year, but hasn't looked like scoring this season even in his limited play time.

He has scored already this season, even with his limited chances. Personally I would have played Crouch but even if he had played I don't honestly think it would have affected the result overmuch (a draw perhaps rather than a loss) I just dont see Kuyt scoring many and it frustrates the life out of me.

He still has not looked a threat, or LOOKED like he would score this season. Whatever the reasons i have no faith atm in Crouch putting the required effort, And do not think he would have made the difference today.

[Kharhaz]

Peter Crouch has always been poor at heading the ball which is why so many people were surprised that for such a tall man to be poor at heading and yet be technically sound with his feet, people didnt know what to expect of him. Look at England when he played, he just couldnt stop scoring, and for Liverpool for a time he went a good run of form. At the minute I would prefer Crouch to Kuyt, although Kuyt works his socks off for the team he just doesnt score as many goals, on or off form.

[redtrader74]

edit

[redtrader74]

I don't think any of them are special, Kuyt had the confidence of scoring the winner, however it came about, in a very important game, it may have (before the result) seemed like a good idea for him to play. Voronin, may get better, its quite early, and was one of the better players on Saturday, so surely warranted his spot today. I don't see what Crouch offers in excess of Kuyt or Voronin, and in actuality has many weaknesses in comparison. I know he was top scorer last year, but hasn't looked like scoring this season even in his limited play time.

If his time on the pitch has been limited how can he be expected to score? or indeed look like scoring? He needs a couple of games running to get back to the form he showed last season. Start him against Arsenal he didnt do bad last season against them...

I expect apparently elite strikers to create, score, and take chances presented to them, in the games he has played he has missed headers completely, or put them in the stand. Where he did at least show effort last year  he has failed to do so this year.

Like i said, the trio are all average, and therefore i don't see why anybody can be so sure that Crouch playing would have made todays result a positive one. It makes sense that players who have just had the high of playing and winning a derby might just have been in a better postion  mentally to do well today.

i think whats being said is the two forwards on the pitch were not doing it so crouch should have been introduced much earlier, he couldn't have done any worse and to be fair he couldn't alter things whilst sat on the bench.

its about time rafa admitted his mistake with kuyt rather than persevere with him, and its about time crouch got a run in the team, like i say he cant do any worse than the other two

Fair enough, i don't understand the very late subs we have been having recently either, if we are going to give a player a chance then at least let them have 20-25 minutes.

Further up people wanted Crouch on from the start.