Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

yeah i know mate - but its still the european cup that gets won and that will always be the same . now it maybe even harder to win it with the teams you have to play against but that im sure is very debatable

[Effes]

Same trophy mate - no difference to me

Have to agree with GYBS - it's why we say we've won it 5 times.

[Bad Bob]

With that said, we are in the thick of a title race for the first time in a long while and we have performed very, very well against our main rivals so far--both massive signs of improvement.  It will be very interesting to see how we go now that the Champions League is back in the frame.  I have a feeling that it will have a huge impact on the rest of our season: it will either galvanize us completely derail us.  So, call me a coward but we're just arriving at the business end of things now and I'm not going to stick my neck out and say this or that has to happen for Rafa to stay or go at this stage.  As ever, I'll wait and see how things pan out in the run in but with the understanding that, no matter how we end the season, the two big concerns I've outlined above won't necessarily just evaporate come May.

The voice of reason Bob, that's how I think we all feel.

My thread is maybe premature. But still, it can at least be debated.

More like the voice of waffle, mate!   I think you and Bam have summed up the conflicting perspectives I feel quite well.  Some days you can look at the situation and say, 'yep, massive step forward this season--Rafa stays' and then, sometimes, you think on how pooched we are if Torres or Gerrard miss much of the run-in and you think 'how in the hell is the squad so threadbare after 5 years Rafa?'  At the moment, I can see both sides.  Rafa's done well enough to earn a new contract but there's a significant question about whether we'll always just hover a level below what we're capable of (as Mick said in another thread) under him.  I can't decide yet whether we should stick or twist so waffle it is.

[GYBS]

Got it spot on bob - its why i think this coming summer is the crucial one for rafa - no matter where we end up this season . If we win it then he has to consolidate and if we come second then he has to push on more and push the mancs even more . I dont think the signings that rafa has to make during the summer should differ no matter what situation happens - we would still be weak in the same areas - mainly a creative attcking player and back up striker.

[Bad Bob]

Got it spot on bob - its why i think this coming summer is the crucial one for rafa - no matter where we end up this season . If we win it then he has to consolidate and if we come second then he has to push on more and push the mancs even more . I dont think the signings that rafa has to make during the summer should differ no matter what situation happens - we would still be weak in the same areas - mainly a creative attcking player and back up striker.

It's a good point, mate.  If rumours are true and Rafa gets a new contract then he's got to pull his finger out this summer regardless of what happens between now and May.  It will be an absolutely massive transfer window for him and for the Yanks, who must back him with the kind of money that landed us Torres.  If they do, Rafa had better be prepared to focus all of his attention on signing a brace or, at a push, a trio of quality players.  The time for options has passed.  We need a quality striker, a quality winger and a quality fullback pronto.  We also need to keep Agger and not do anything stupid like try and sell Alonso again.  If we're to cull, we need to actually get some decent money for lads who are surplus to requirements and we need to get those deals done early so that the cash goes into the transfer pot.  Yes, indeed, I think the true make or break time for Rafa might just start after the season finishes.

[Judge]

Same trophy mate - no difference to me

yes same trophy different competition gybs.

league winners only before, now 4 teams from one country or so can attempt to win it.

was much better when only the champions could get in it. perhaps if it had stayed like that, then we may have been more competitive years ago (except during the ban of course)

[GYBS]

Got it spot on bob - its why i think this coming summer is the crucial one for rafa - no matter where we end up this season . If we win it then he has to consolidate and if we come second then he has to push on more and push the mancs even more . I dont think the signings that rafa has to make during the summer should differ no matter what situation happens - we would still be weak in the same areas - mainly a creative attcking player and back up striker.

It's a good point, mate.  If rumours are true and Rafa gets a new contract then he's got to pull his finger out this summer regardless of what happens between now and May.  It will be an absolutely massive transfer window for him and for the Yanks, who must back him with the kind of money that landed us Torres.  If they do, Rafa had better be prepared to focus all of his attention on signing a brace or, at a push, a trio of quality players.  The time for options has passed.  We need a quality striker, a quality winger and a quality fullback pronto.  We also need to keep Agger and not do anything stupid like try and sell Alonso again.  If we're to cull, we need to actually get some decent money for lads who are surplus to requirements and we need to get those deals done early so that the cash goes into the transfer pot.  Yes, indeed, I think the true make or break time for Rafa might just start after the season finishes.

yep spot on again bob - we need those torres quality type players in a creative area in midfield - out wide or through the centre - plus a very decent back up to torres and someone who can play against him . It all will come down to how well rafa is backed during the summer and who he gets and i hope to god there is no barry and he doesnt have what we need.

[GYBS]

Same trophy mate - no difference to me

yes same trophy different competition gybs.

league winners only before, now 4 teams from one country or so can attempt to win it.

was much better when only the champions could get in it. perhaps if it had stayed like that, then we may have been more competitive years ago (except during the ban of course)

i think it is pretty much a debate that could run and run mate - my thinking at the end of the day the team that lifts that trophy is the best in europe - how they get there i guess is a matter for debate on which is that hardest or best . these days you have to beat the cream of the crop - in the old days there was plenty of 10 -1 scorelines over two legs up until the quarters against tiny finnish teams etc .

[bigmick]

Whereas now theres 8-0 games against tiny Turkish ones. Mind you, they beat us 2-1 over there, oops!

[GYBS]

that was  aone off and you get them every year mate - back then it was a regualr scoreline durin the first couple of rounds .

[Owzat]

Same trophy mate - no difference to me

yes same trophy different competition gybs.

league winners only before, now 4 teams from one country or so can attempt to win it.

was much better when only the champions could get in it. perhaps if it had stayed like that, then we may have been more competitive years ago (except during the ban of course)

i think it is pretty much a debate that could run and run mate - my thinking at the end of the day the team that lifts that trophy is the best in europe - how they get there i guess is a matter for debate on which is that hardest or best . these days you have to beat the cream of the crop - in the old days there was plenty of 10 -1 scorelines over two legs up until the quarters against tiny finnish teams etc .

You still get that kind of scoreline, Liverpool 9-2 Besiktas and Man Utd beat Dynamo Kiev 8-2 over their respective group stage matches last season.

The best team probably does win, except in Moaninho's tiny mind, but the competition is different. That is reflected by the bigger leagues dominating the latter stages of the competition - was it 3/4 of the semi-finalists being English last season? You can't draw too many conclusions from the odd mismatch, they're inevitable by the natural divide between the best nations and the weaker ones that has always existed.

The format makes it different, the second chance saloon as it were. You couldn't afford to lose two games in one round and still go through in the old format, now you can lose three games in one round (the group stages) and still go through - no finer example than our scraping through against Olympiakos in 04/05 on our way to winning the competition.

[GYBS]

yeah that is the big difference mate with the loose one or a couple games in the group and you still got a chance but once out of the group you are in the company of the best 16 teams in europe - you didnt always get that before .

[GYBS]

Talking of money and Rafa spending 150 mil etc - there is a list in the mirror on players bought for over 15 mil by chelsea man utd and liverpool - We have bought 3 the mancs the mancs 9 and chelsea 12 .

[heimdall]

Got it spot on bob - its why i think this coming summer is the crucial one for rafa - no matter where we end up this season . If we win it then he has to consolidate and if we come second then he has to push on more and push the mancs even more . I dont think the signings that rafa has to make during the summer should differ no matter what situation happens - we would still be weak in the same areas - mainly a creative attcking player and back up striker.

It's a good point, mate.  If rumours are true and Rafa gets a new contract then he's got to pull his finger out this summer regardless of what happens between now and May.  It will be an absolutely massive transfer window for him and for the Yanks, who must back him with the kind of money that landed us Torres.  If they do, Rafa had better be prepared to focus all of his attention on signing a brace or, at a push, a trio of quality players.  The time for options has passed.  We need a quality striker, a quality winger and a quality fullback pronto.  We also need to keep Agger and not do anything stupid like try and sell Alonso again.  If we're to cull, we need to actually get some decent money for lads who are surplus to requirements and we need to get those deals done early so that the cash goes into the transfer pot.  Yes, indeed, I think the true make or break time for Rafa might just start after the season finishes.

Now you guys do realise that the world is in something called a financial crises don't you? Where the holy hell is this money to back Rafa going to come from? Before you start GYBS I'm not being negative, I would love to see big signings in the summer, but unless we get bought I just can't see it happening.

[GYBS]

hence why this summer is such an important one and what me and bob have been saying - yes there is a financial crisis we all know that but rafa will stillhave money available - all depends on how he spends it .