Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

Here are the league positions in the years preceeding Bill's appointment, compared to 50 years later.

                    Division 2                               Premier League

1954-55           11th                    2004-05         5th
1955-56            3rd                     2005-06        3rd
1956-57            3rd                     2006-07        3rd
1957-58            4th                     2007-08        4th         

I dont need to point out how the last 3 seasons' placings mirror each other.
Liverpool were desparate to get back into the 1st Division, but you've got to admit, looking at past league finishes, they weren't that far
away were they? In those days the top 2 teams got promoted, so they only just missed out for 2 seasons.

Now I guess this is were an analogy gets a bit murky, other factors come into the equation.

Comparisons with the distant past are pointless, that's why I mainly compare with Premiership history as that is more or less our new starting point. Much as we see relegation as unlikely now, it wasn't back when we were last relegated so how is there any room for comparison.........................?

Owzat, I get what you are saying.

My comparison was to look at the finishing places listed, and yet the Chairman deemed it neccesary to go out and "tap up" Shankly? They only missed out on promotion by one place twice, and then by 2 places in the previous seasons.
As it were, comparing the perceived "patience" that a club should have with the manager.

What Im saying is, how would that Chairman feel now? He didn't seem the sentimental type. [I will concede here, that Phil Taylor did have a dodgy start to the 1959  season (W 7, D 5, L 7)] - but even so, would people be saying "Hey, he's getting us there" and think it "out of order" to consider getting another manager in.

Re. Mourinho - I guess I got carried away by the comparison. I was egged on by the fact that they are the same age. But also, I think they are similar in the way they "inspire" the people around them. But I didn't want the mention of Mourinho to be the crux of the debate.

Bam - I totally get what you said wrt the post making you feel more "pro Rafa". It's how I felt a bit after writing it.

I feel Rafa could still win us the league _ I haven't written him off.

What made me make the post was that some people think getting rid of Rafa is blasphemous, and I can see why people think that.
My point is, some things aren't as unthinkable as you would believe.

i think a big difference to the years back then is the prize that comes with finishing 2dn 3rd or 4th - CL football . That seems to be the first target of every big 4 club and essential for them to the point it is a must for the club to qualify because of all the benefits that it brings . You get yourself qualifiying comfortable every year then start to build on that .

Many fans growing up through the old times (not having a dig as I dont know your age GYBS, just saying), would have said that was a consolation.

Shankly, Im quite sure, would have agreed.

im 35 coming up to 36 mate so dont really remember the 70s as such but grew up through the 80s and yeah shanks and paisley wont of thought like that in those days - but those days are gone mate - they dissappeared during the 90s when other clubs moved on and we didnt - the game turned into money and global and we were slow to embrace it . it is sad to see but its what happened and we have had to drag ourselves up there - GH started getting us there and made great strides just went backwards last 2 seasons due to numerous reasons and imo rafa is getting us back there to become a force in europe (there is no doubt about that ) and slowly getting us there in the prem - it was never going to be a quick fix and needed a hell of a lot of work and money (yes i know rafa has spent 150 mil etc ) but that is nothing compared to others and the players we needed comapred to the others . We could of taken even greater strides if DIC had bought us but we got the two septics and despite the problems they have caused rafa still has us up there competing with the very best .

And mick - as for maureen i was looking at it realistically by saying there is no one else available and that would come to us and would be willing to come to us ie i dont think wenger would leave or taggert and dont think maureen would or ancelotti or hiddink etc etc . wasnt saying there isnt managers out there - there is just that realistically we wont see them at liverpool for various reasons.

[simolonge]

I have not previously seen a situation where the ueology is carved in the headstone before the man has passed.

[Effes]

Like I say, emotions are going to run high and it would be good if everyone could give themselves a wee chill pill.

Agree Mick - I think Ive posted this thread maybe too early.

However, as I said before, I wanted people to think about what they thought was unthinkable.

Just steering in that direction a bit - the board have always been a bit savvy when it has come to changing managers. They show enough loyalty, but seem to call it a day before that loyalty gets too strained.There were many grumblings about Houllier, but if I can point to one public show of "dissent", maybe it was a flag at Spurs away (I think) which said something along the lines of "Thanks for 2001, but enough is enough" ?. Memory a bit poor sorry.

I can imagine Dave Moores would have seen that, and noticed how no one in the Liverpool end got umbridge about it. I guess this was a far gauge of how the fans felt.

With the set up we have now - who at the club is gonna be savvy? The Yanks are hardly ever here, Parry? Pffft!

Again, less worry about Rafa, more worry about the blokes who will make the ultimate decisions for the club.

[112-1077774096]

The Liverpool way sabre,

I grew up in the city (walking distance from the ground), my first game shanks was still manager in 1973, then Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish.

The liverpool way was promotion from within, people who knew the club, people who loved the club (people who you could believe loved the club), people who got on with their job with the minimum of fuss, people who knew what it takes to win, people who could spot a talent and recruit that talent, a family club, fans who knew what winning meant rather than the modern day fan accepting 4th place as an a achievement, fans who would see two draws with stoke for what it was and make no excuses about it. People who never played things out in the papers (the first you knew about a signing was when he appeared at the club)(i know the media less back then but still....), a chairman in john smith and chief exec in peter robinson who were quality.

the liverpool way was everything working with the minimum of fuss, anyone who wanted to blow their own trumpet was out the door, the biggest thing was the club and no individual was allowed to destabilise that, we knew how to win and has the confidence to win, we had players who would run through brick walls for the club and for the fans, we has managers with a genuine love for the club.

i want the 70's and 80's back   

I also forgot Pee, clapping the opposition goalie as he approaches the goal at the Kop end, at the beginning of the half.
Then boo him if he doesn't acknowledge us. 

so true   

and the day the balloon was blowing round the pitch before the game and the kop were cheering it as it blew towards the goal and going mental when it went in   

[Effes]

Many fans growing up through the old times (not having a dig as I dont know your age GYBS, just saying), would have said that was a consolation.

Shankly, Im quite sure, would have agreed

im 35 coming up to 36 mate so dont really remember the 70s as such but grew up through the 80s and yeah shanks and paisley wont of thought like that in those days - but those days are gone mate - they dissappeared during the 90s when other clubs moved on and we didnt - the game turned into money and global and we were slow to embrace it . it is sad to see but its what happened and we have had to drag ourselves up there - GH started getting us there and made great strides just went backwards last 2 seasons due to numerous reasons and imo rafa is getting us back there to become a force in europe (there is no doubt about that ) and slowly getting us there in the prem - it was never going to be a quick fix and needed a hell of a lot of work and money (yes i know rafa has spent 150 mil etc ) but that is nothing compared to others and the players we needed comapred to the others . We could of taken even greater strides if DIC had bought us but we got the two septics and despite the problems they have caused rafa still has us up there competing with the very best .

Yea GYBS, my reference to these fans didnt exactly include me mate (Im 38).
I agree with hwat you're saying.

The question could be - are we (all Reds) getting too anxious about the league?

I really buzz off our Champs League campaigns - we are a definite force in Europe. Another aspect of "The Liverppol Way"? If so, Rafa deserves all the plaudits.

If over the rest of this season, and say, next 3 seasons we never win the League but win 2 Champs Leagues - would that be deemed sufficient enough success?
For me it is - so is the obsession with the league making us lose the plot? It's debateable.

[bigmick]

If over the rest of this season, and say, next 3 seasons we never win the League but win 2 Champs Leagues - would that be deemed sufficient enough success?
For me it is - so is the obsession with the league making us lose the plot? It's debateable.

And that's what'll happen Eff. Or we'll win the Fa Cup and defend it, or win the FA Cup and the Champions League in the same season and finish 10th in the league or something daft.

While rafa is the manager, IMHO there will always be enough for all different factions to convince themselves that they were right all along 

[Effes]

With that said, we are in the thick of a title race for the first time in a long while and we have performed very, very well against our main rivals so far--both massive signs of improvement.  It will be very interesting to see how we go now that the Champions League is back in the frame.  I have a feeling that it will have a huge impact on the rest of our season: it will either galvanize us completely derail us.  So, call me a coward but we're just arriving at the business end of things now and I'm not going to stick my neck out and say this or that has to happen for Rafa to stay or go at this stage.  As ever, I'll wait and see how things pan out in the run in but with the understanding that, no matter how we end the season, the two big concerns I've outlined above won't necessarily just evaporate come May.

The voice of reason Bob, that's how I think we all feel.

My thread is maybe premature. But still, it can at least be debated.

[GYBS]

Many fans growing up through the old times (not having a dig as I dont know your age GYBS, just saying), would have said that was a consolation.

Shankly, Im quite sure, would have agreed

im 35 coming up to 36 mate so dont really remember the 70s as such but grew up through the 80s and yeah shanks and paisley wont of thought like that in those days - but those days are gone mate - they dissappeared during the 90s when other clubs moved on and we didnt - the game turned into money and global and we were slow to embrace it . it is sad to see but its what happened and we have had to drag ourselves up there - GH started getting us there and made great strides just went backwards last 2 seasons due to numerous reasons and imo rafa is getting us back there to become a force in europe (there is no doubt about that ) and slowly getting us there in the prem - it was never going to be a quick fix and needed a hell of a lot of work and money (yes i know rafa has spent 150 mil etc ) but that is nothing compared to others and the players we needed comapred to the others . We could of taken even greater strides if DIC had bought us but we got the two septics and despite the problems they have caused rafa still has us up there competing with the very best .

Yea GYBS, my reference to these fans didnt exactly include me mate (Im 38).
I agree with hwat you're saying.

The question could be - are we (all Reds) getting too anxious about the league?

I really buzz off our Champs League campaigns - we are a definite force in Europe. Another aspect of "The Liverppol Way"? If so, Rafa deserves all the plaudits.

If over the rest of this season, and say, next 3 seasons we never win the League but win 2 Champs Leagues - would that be deemed sufficient enough success?
For me it is - so is the obsession with the league making us lose the plot? It's debateable.

In my eyes yes that would be success - that would be major success . yes i want to win the league - everyone does but not going to become obssesed with as such - if rafa does win more cl then he goes down as a legend and will continue to be given more time to get that league .

[bigmick]

Don't use that word Legend GYBS FFS!!!! (I know I once used it famously for Dirky boy after about two matches but that just shows you how wrong you can be    ). Paisley was a legend, Shanks, Dalglish etc. You don't become a legend easily, lets see how the manager goes before we call him a legend.

[GYBS]

Hence why i said if he wins two more cl then in my eyes he will be a legend - only one other manager has won the cl three times with same club .

[bigmick]

Who was that? The AC Milan bloke when they had Gullit and Van Basten?

[GYBS]

nope - Bob Paisley

[bigmick]

No ya daft apeth it wasn't the Champions League then, it was the European Cup. Far better competition it was too if you ask me.

[GYBS]

Same trophy mate - no difference to me

[bigmick]

Well there is to me. You had to win the league just to get in the fecker before, whereas now every bugger gets in it.