Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

effes mentions maureen in the opening post and you mention him in the 4th post, yet you have a go at mick for him being mentioned

I have looked around at the most popular threads about thw squad etc and how we are doing and maureen is being dragged into every single one - yes i have done it but people everywhere are doing and basically it now looks like a lot of people want rafa gone and maureen in and bringing it up everywhere .

[Judge]

Wow this Mourinho Bandwagon has really been set in motion around here, one fella calls it and many more coming running out of the woodwork wanting the "special one"

He is a great manager but for some unexplained reason I'm still holding on to that last glimer of hope that Rafa can get us to where we want to be. I dont know why that is, as I've been one of his hardest critics on here and the bloke certainly raises my Blood pressure.

Inspite of us "spunking" our lead earlier on in the season and therefore giving up all hope the man can get us challenging even when turning a gift horse down. I think we're obviously closer than we have ever been in at least the last ten years of trying, if he does come this close I'm anxious to see what lies just around the corner. To see if he can take us to the title next season or this, I think its absolutely silly and a waste of time to get shot of him now or even at the end of the season when he has possibly had his best season in a domestic campaign ever under his belt.

I know I will vent anger in the remaining months of the season and possibly next, and get a torrent abuse from the 'Pro-Rafa brigade' along the way. I expect that, and I suppose this post makes me kind of 'Pro' Rafa. I'm 'Pro' in the fact I dont think he should be given the boot now or in the summer. But very "anti" on some of his policies, but if eventually those policies (which I still do doubt) manage to secure us a Prem title. I'll hold my hands up to.

I doubt his methods, yet am anxious to see what lies just around the corner for his team (kind of a contradiction I know, but hard to explain) If he'd of been given the boot last summer I wouldnt of grumbled, like Effs my opinion fluctuates and I wasnt impressed with him last season in all honesty. But We've now got a sniff of glory and it shouldnt be unstabled IMO of sacking the manager talk right now, its a complete waste of time and effort to come this far and then just dismiss it all. Just because you disagree with the way he handled the Keane debacle, dont get me wrong it was tastless to say the least. Or his outbursts to the press about contracts and Fergie, those things wont sway my opinion too much like it has done for others, Its the results that matter.

BTB good opening post Effes 

spunking? wtf

[112-1077774096]

effes mentions maureen in the opening post and you mention him in the 4th post, yet you have a go at mick for him being mentioned

I have looked around at the most popular threads about thw squad etc and how we are doing and maureen is being dragged into every single one - yes i have done it but people everywhere are doing and basically it now looks like a lot of people want rafa gone and maureen in and bringing it up everywhere .

Then if more and more people are saying they want maureen as manager then that means more and more people want maureen as manager mate, you cant censor the opinions of posters because it doesn't agree with yours, just try your best to counter these people with a reasoned argument. I know you don't like maureen and I know you like rafa, but making comments such as 'maureen will never manage liverpool' and 'rafa is going nowhere' is just the same speculation as 'maureen will be our manager' from other posters, neither of you know for a fact who will be manager next season

[Judge]

effes mentions maureen in the opening post and you mention him in the 4th post, yet you have a go at mick for him being mentioned

I have looked around at the most popular threads about thw squad etc and how we are doing and maureen is being dragged into every single one - yes i have done it but people everywhere are doing and basically it now looks like a lot of people want rafa gone and maureen in and bringing it up everywhere .

Then if more and more people are saying they want maureen as manager then that means more and more people want maureen as manager mate, you cant censor the opinions of posters because it doesn't agree with yours, just try your best to counter these people with a reasoned argument. I know you don't like maureen and I know you like rafa, but making comments such as 'maureen will never manage liverpool' and 'rafa is going nowhere' is just the same speculation as 'maureen will be our manager' from other posters, neither of you know for a fact who will be manager next season

reasoned post by peewee 

[GYBS]

yes people may think that mate - not saying they shouldnt think that and they are fully entitled to that opinion as is the others who think he should be nowehere near the club and dont rate him - its not the opinion i have a problem with its the fact it is creeping into every single thread and every time rafa gets mentioned or an anti or a pro rafa posts - maureen comes straight into the thread to the point yesterday we had 4 or 5 so threads plus micks with people stating that they want maureen as manager etc etc .

[bigmick]

Who was even on about Maureen anyway Feck me I commented on Bams post impartially, and i tried to clarify what Eff was on about for Owzat. I never mentiones Maureen apart form referring to Effes post his morning (last night your time). People need to chill, it's a good thread which deserves not to be fecked up.

I should also say GYBS that with the greatest respect, the way you turned every thread into a Kuyt one when you first joined the forum should disqualify you from having a go at people about infecting threads. It's like me telling someone to stop going on about rotation 

[GYBS]

Wasnt aiming at you there mick as i know you have started your own thread about it all - but you got to admit he has crept into every thread and it is quite sad really when you consider what we are chasing at the moment .

[GYBS]

p.s. mick i answered your question elsewhere

[Judge]

Wasnt aiming at you there mick as i know you have started your own thread about it all - but you got to admit he has crept into every thread and it is quite sad really when you consider what we are chasing at the moment .

perhaps when mick mentioned mourinho, he was most probably referring to a rampant rabbit (which he sells of course)

[Effes]

Here are the league positions in the years preceeding Bill's appointment, compared to 50 years later.

                    Division 2                               Premier League

1954-55           11th                    2004-05         5th
1955-56            3rd                     2005-06        3rd
1956-57            3rd                     2006-07        3rd
1957-58            4th                     2007-08        4th         

I dont need to point out how the last 3 seasons' placings mirror each other.
Liverpool were desparate to get back into the 1st Division, but you've got to admit, looking at past league finishes, they weren't that far
away were they? In those days the top 2 teams got promoted, so they only just missed out for 2 seasons.

Now I guess this is were an analogy gets a bit murky, other factors come into the equation.

Comparisons with the distant past are pointless, that's why I mainly compare with Premiership history as that is more or less our new starting point. Much as we see relegation as unlikely now, it wasn't back when we were last relegated so how is there any room for comparison.........................?

Owzat, I get what you are saying.

My comparison was to look at the finishing places listed, and yet the Chairman deemed it neccesary to go out and "tap up" Shankly? They only missed out on promotion by one place twice, and then by 2 places in the previous seasons.
As it were, comparing the perceived "patience" that a club should have with the manager.

What Im saying is, how would that Chairman feel now? He didn't seem the sentimental type. [I will concede here, that Phil Taylor did have a dodgy start to the 1959  season (W 7, D 5, L 7)] - but even so, would people be saying "Hey, he's getting us there" and think it "out of order" to consider getting another manager in.

Re. Mourinho - I guess I got carried away by the comparison. I was egged on by the fact that they are the same age. But also, I think they are similar in the way they "inspire" the people around them. But I didn't want the mention of Mourinho to be the crux of the debate.

Bam - I totally get what you said wrt the post making you feel more "pro Rafa". It's how I felt a bit after writing it.

I feel Rafa could still win us the league _ I haven't written him off.

What made me make the post was that some people think getting rid of Rafa is blasphemous, and I can see why people think that.
My point is, some things aren't as unthinkable as you would believe.

[GYBS]

Oh btw this is in no way any slaint on the thread starter at all in any respect.as i think the inital crux of the post was very good and the comparrisons very good as well .

[GYBS]

Here are the league positions in the years preceeding Bill's appointment, compared to 50 years later.

                    Division 2                               Premier League

1954-55           11th                    2004-05         5th
1955-56            3rd                     2005-06        3rd
1956-57            3rd                     2006-07        3rd
1957-58            4th                     2007-08        4th         

I dont need to point out how the last 3 seasons' placings mirror each other.
Liverpool were desparate to get back into the 1st Division, but you've got to admit, looking at past league finishes, they weren't that far
away were they? In those days the top 2 teams got promoted, so they only just missed out for 2 seasons.

Now I guess this is were an analogy gets a bit murky, other factors come into the equation.

Comparisons with the distant past are pointless, that's why I mainly compare with Premiership history as that is more or less our new starting point. Much as we see relegation as unlikely now, it wasn't back when we were last relegated so how is there any room for comparison.........................?

Owzat, I get what you are saying.

My comparison was to look at the finishing places listed, and yet the Chairman deemed it neccesary to go out and "tap up" Shankly? They only missed out on promotion by one place twice, and then by 2 places in the previous seasons.
As it were, comparing the perceived "patience" that a club should have with the manager.

What Im saying is, how would that Chairman feel now? He didn't seem the sentimental type. [I will concede here, that Phil Taylor did have a dodgy start to the 1959  season (W 7, D 5, L 7)] - but even so, would people be saying "Hey, he's getting us there" and think it "out of order" to consider getting another manager in.

Re. Mourinho - I guess I got carried away by the comparison. I was egged on by the fact that they are the same age. But also, I think they are similar in the way they "inspire" the people around them. But I didn't want the mention of Mourinho to be the crux of the debate.

Bam - I totally get what you said wrt the post making you feel more "pro Rafa". It's how I felt a bit after writing it.

I feel Rafa could still win us the league _ I haven't written him off.

What made me make the post was that some people think getting rid of Rafa is blasphemous, and I can see why people think that.
My point is, some things aren't as unthinkable as you would believe.

i think a big difference to the years back then is the prize that comes with finishing 2dn 3rd or 4th - CL football . That seems to be the first target of every big 4 club and essential for them to the point it is a must for the club to qualify because of all the benefits that it brings . You get yourself qualifiying comfortable every year then start to build on that .

[Effes]

The Liverpool way sabre,

I grew up in the city (walking distance from the ground), my first game shanks was still manager in 1973, then Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish.

The liverpool way was promotion from within, people who knew the club, people who loved the club (people who you could believe loved the club), people who got on with their job with the minimum of fuss, people who knew what it takes to win, people who could spot a talent and recruit that talent, a family club, fans who knew what winning meant rather than the modern day fan accepting 4th place as an a achievement, fans who would see two draws with stoke for what it was and make no excuses about it. People who never played things out in the papers (the first you knew about a signing was when he appeared at the club)(i know the media less back then but still....), a chairman in john smith and chief exec in peter robinson who were quality.

the liverpool way was everything working with the minimum of fuss, anyone who wanted to blow their own trumpet was out the door, the biggest thing was the club and no individual was allowed to destabilise that, we knew how to win and has the confidence to win, we had players who would run through brick walls for the club and for the fans, we has managers with a genuine love for the club.

i want the 70's and 80's back   

I also forgot Pee, clapping the opposition goalie as he approaches the goal at the Kop end, at the beginning of the half.
Then boo him if he doesn't acknowledge us. 

[Effes]

Here are the league positions in the years preceeding Bill's appointment, compared to 50 years later.

                    Division 2                               Premier League

1954-55           11th                    2004-05         5th
1955-56            3rd                     2005-06        3rd
1956-57            3rd                     2006-07        3rd
1957-58            4th                     2007-08        4th         

I dont need to point out how the last 3 seasons' placings mirror each other.
Liverpool were desparate to get back into the 1st Division, but you've got to admit, looking at past league finishes, they weren't that far
away were they? In those days the top 2 teams got promoted, so they only just missed out for 2 seasons.

Now I guess this is were an analogy gets a bit murky, other factors come into the equation.

Comparisons with the distant past are pointless, that's why I mainly compare with Premiership history as that is more or less our new starting point. Much as we see relegation as unlikely now, it wasn't back when we were last relegated so how is there any room for comparison.........................?

Owzat, I get what you are saying.

My comparison was to look at the finishing places listed, and yet the Chairman deemed it neccesary to go out and "tap up" Shankly? They only missed out on promotion by one place twice, and then by 2 places in the previous seasons.
As it were, comparing the perceived "patience" that a club should have with the manager.

What Im saying is, how would that Chairman feel now? He didn't seem the sentimental type. [I will concede here, that Phil Taylor did have a dodgy start to the 1959  season (W 7, D 5, L 7)] - but even so, would people be saying "Hey, he's getting us there" and think it "out of order" to consider getting another manager in.

Re. Mourinho - I guess I got carried away by the comparison. I was egged on by the fact that they are the same age. But also, I think they are similar in the way they "inspire" the people around them. But I didn't want the mention of Mourinho to be the crux of the debate.

Bam - I totally get what you said wrt the post making you feel more "pro Rafa". It's how I felt a bit after writing it.

I feel Rafa could still win us the league _ I haven't written him off.

What made me make the post was that some people think getting rid of Rafa is blasphemous, and I can see why people think that.
My point is, some things aren't as unthinkable as you would believe.

i think a big difference to the years back then is the prize that comes with finishing 2dn 3rd or 4th - CL football . That seems to be the first target of every big 4 club and essential for them to the point it is a must for the club to qualify because of all the benefits that it brings . You get yourself qualifiying comfortable every year then start to build on that .

Many fans growing up through the old times (not having a dig as I dont know your age GYBS, just saying), would have said that was a consolation.

Shankly, Im quite sure, would have agreed.

[bigmick]

Yet another good post Eff. Look I think a lot of people are going to be wrestling with their beliefs over the next few weeks. Even if we end up winning the league this season, I'll tell you this right now. We aren't going to win every match, and Man Utd aren't going to fall away. Forget about any dreams of winning it by 10 points or anything (I know nobody has them anyway) but if we win it it will be a rollercoaster, by the skin of our teeth. That's great because it's more exciting anyway, but my point is that mixed in with that tussle there are going to be moments when everyone questions the manager. Some will do it openly, some will do it in moments of quiet reflection.

It's quite possible that many people will change their minds two or three times over the course of the run in. That doesn't mean they're fickle, it just means they so desperately want to win the thing that they get hyped up about it. There's nothing wrong with that, and people should neither give themselves or anybody else a hard time when emotion runs high. If we stay touch tight, it's going to get much worse than it is now but in many ways it'll be much better because we are still right in there.

As for Mourinho (sorry GYBS) let's face it whatever happens with Rafa he isn't going to leave Inter Milan after one season and become Liverpools manager anyway. There is zero point zero per cent chance of him doing that in my view. The only reason I brought him up in the first place (aside from thinking he would do a good job) was to counter the utterly ridiculous "but there's nobody else" defence that you sometimes get. Only when GYBS and Lando dismissed him in exactly the same way as I did myself did I bother to look into his record, and when you do it is stupendously good. He isn't going to become our manager though, we all know that so I think people could be a little less sensitve about his name being mentioned.

Like I say, emotions are going to run high and it would be good if everyone could give themselves a wee chill pill.