Liverpool FC Forum

[66-1112520797]

We are only four games into the season I no but there seems to be striking similaritys between the way Rafa has his team set out to the team of Houlliers .

I keep hearing we are gonna be hard to break down as a unit ,if we keep playing long balls upto Crouch we are going to become one dimensional.Currently we are not making much use of the wide areas.
When it was Houlliers time incharge we relied on playing Michael Owen in from a Stevie Gerrard pass,or we played the long ball upto Heskey all the time.
We were also hard to break down as a unit and were very defensive minded.
We also played with no width at all.

Alot of people and many on here have slagged Houllier off once he was sacked,not just for his spending but also for his tactics.

Would the same happen say if Rafa left ?

The main difference between the two teams now is we have five in midfield so in theory we are going to be even more harder to break down
Dont get me wrong Crouch is a good player and I no the system will be rotated a fair bit.
But could any of you honestly say that in your wildess  dreams you imagined a Liverpool team with a lone striker upfront in the name of Crouch ?


If so he would be playing alongside somebody upfront surely
,this 4-5-1 formation can be used to good effect im sure of it.
But we are not using to good effect at the moment and it just shows to me that we are sacrificing our strikers to have an extra man in the middle of the park.
For all Houlliers negativity in terms of style he always played two upfront and we looked more likely to score back then ,than what we do now.
Chelski aside ManUre play Horse head and looney Arsenal play with Henry and whoever.
Both play a more exciting game going forwrd ,we are trying to play a similar style to Chelski but even worse as we do not have the kind of players they have to support the frontman.
Therefore its going to be hard to see where a goal is coming from.

So back to the Houllier thing then ,he won the Uefa ,Fa and league cup while he was manager and Liverpool fans thought he might bring the premiership title back to Anfield.
But he didnt the team seemed short of ideas and lost inspiration two years down the track,alot of which was blamed torwards the tactics.
Is the same thing gonna happen to Rafa He has won the CL the team seem to be playing a boring style of play if nothing happens say in the next few years will everybody be calling for his head ? On this forum im sure they will.
Can or will Rafa change his gameplan if need be ?

[NiftyNeil]

I think you've been a bit hasty in your assesments, but you have made some good points.
We do play more attractive football under Rafa though, and I don't think we're that far away from Arsenal, Chelsea, Manure.
The 4-5-1 seem to be the flavour of the month with a lot of clubs at the moment, including the 3 teams I've mentioned. The difference between us and them though is that they convert to a 4-4-3 better when in attack. The Chelsea striker is supported by Robben+Duff, Arsenal striker by Ljungberg+Pires and Ed the Horse is supported by Rooney and Ronaldo. Our striker is only supported by Garcia, and that says it all at the moment.

[The_Rock]

Not sure how both of them set up to play.....but rafa's game plan is much more complicated than just "not concede goals". It also involves a sort of "pressing" tactics (keep the ball as much as possible and always pressurise the opposition when the ball is with them)........


Aso, rafa's "plan B" works most of the time...houllier had no "plan B".

[66-1120597113]

Well for a start Houllier never won the Champs league in his 1st season!
Also Raffa has not wasted millions on signing donkeys that pretend to be footballers!
But i do know where you are coming from and i also blame us playing a 4-5-1 !
Its frustrating to watch when we have no natural wingers and none of our strikers are ideal as a lone frontman! The problem being here though is that if we play a 4-4-2 against a 4-5-1 and that team has quality wingers we will be caught with a man less when the opponents counter attack and punished!
So at the moment when we play against a 4-5-1 all we can do is match them man for man,to play any other system would be suicide!  Its like a stalemate if ya like.
I never thought id say this,but in the present climate in the EPL if kewell comes back soon,anywhere near his best he could be the missing link need until jan anyway!
But its a bit harsh to compare Raffa to Houllier mate,we are about 2 players short in my opinion of being right up there with the best!

[bigmick]

I think you can put to bed the Houllier/Rafa combination simply by comparing the signings. Stu will go berserk at this but I thought Houlliers transfer dealings were woeful, particularly towards the end. Lets face it, now we've got him there would be few that would argue that Houlliers final act in the market, the enigmatic Cisse is actually worth 14 million quid.
Rafa's dealings have in the main worked out. When he has spent big, only Morientes IMHO won't provide value for money. Alonso, Garcia, Crouch and Sissoko all look like sound purchases to me. All may infact prove to be steals. Certainly if sold tomorrrow all but Crouch would have increased in value and the big fella is already looking like he's going to prove lots of people wrong and could make a player worth a lot more than the 7 million we paid. Reina also looks like a good keeper but to be fair, he ought to be for the fee we paid. For a goalkeeper that really was top dollar so I'll reserve judgement on that one.
No, for me there's no comparison. No longer do I dread the press conference after the game where stats on corners and goal attempts are paraded before a disbelieving public to convince us that we are actually the most attacking team in the division. Embarassing.

[kazza]

Like was said, for the 4-5-1 formation to really work you need quality wingers (or wide men). Finnan who is a solid player defensively, does not have the attacking flare and quickness to fill the role. We really needed a winger but it never happened, oh well! Zenden to me should be playing better and he is not.

My point is that Raffa likes the 4-5-1. He does not quite have the players to play it perfectly, so he is not going to change to a 4-4-2 only untill the transfer window, only to go back to 4-5-1 after he has the players that can fully compliment the system he wants.

As for the comparison between Raffa and Houllier, I think Raffa is far more astute and played the system he thinks is needed for a particular situation. Houllier seemed to entrench himself in defensive football. Long ball with Houllier was long ball for Owen to use his pace and score. Long ball to Raffa is long ball to a lone striker who hold on to the ball long enough for the midfield to move in and support. They are quite different, and to me Raffa's system is far more fun to watch and defend.

Crouch may have a lot of playing time and score less than the midfielders.

[stmichael]

Are you serious?

Houllier comes in, hacks the squad to pieces (selling many crowd favourites), brings in a slew of his own players - many of them French - and decides that he needs to work on the defence and make Liverpool first and foremost a hard to beat side. He perseveres with many of his signings who are clearly not suited to the Premiership, facing accusations of having undroppable favourites.

He brings in two new keepers that many fans thought we didn't need and buys a large, ungainly, non goalscoring striker that everyone thinks we overpaid for.

We are hard to beat, but critics claim we do not play attractive or attacking football and call us long-ball merchants.

We do not look like challenging for the title soon.

Times passes.....

Rafa comes in, hacks the squad to pieces (selling many crowd favourites), brings in a slew of his own players - many of them Spanish - and decides that he needs to work on the defence and make Liverpool first and foremost a hard to beat side.

He perseveres with many of his signings who are clearly not suited to the Premiership, facing accusations of having undroppable favourites.

He brings in two new keepers that many fans thought we din't need, and buys a large, ungainly non goalscoring striker that everyone thinks we overpaid for.

We are hard to beat, but critics claim we do not play attractive or attacking football and call us long-ball merchants.

We do not look like challenging for the title soon.



Of course there are similarities in our style of play.

However Rafa won La Liga twice in three seasons with Valencia and lifted the European Cup in his first season at Liverpool.

This should be enough to avoid comparisons.

[Paul C]

Are you serious?

Houllier comes in, hacks the squad to pieces (selling many crowd favourites), brings in a slew of his own players - many of them French - and decides that he needs to work on the defence and make Liverpool first and foremost a hard to beat side. He perseveres with many of his signings who are clearly not suited to the Premiership, facing accusations of having undroppable favourites.

He brings in two new keepers that many fans thought we didn't need and buys a large, ungainly, non goalscoring striker that everyone thinks we overpaid for.

We are hard to beat, but critics claim we do not play attractive or attacking football and call us long-ball merchants.

We do not look like challenging for the title soon.

Times passes.....

Rafa comes in, hacks the squad to pieces (selling many crowd favourites), brings in a slew of his own players - many of them Spanish - and decides that he needs to work on the defence and make Liverpool first and foremost a hard to beat side.

He perseveres with many of his signings who are clearly not suited to the Premiership, facing accusations of having undroppable favourites.

He brings in two new keepers that many fans thought we din't need, and buys a large, ungainly non goalscoring striker that everyone thinks we overpaid for.

We are hard to beat, but critics claim we do not play attractive or attacking football and call us long-ball merchants.

We do not look like challenging for the title soon.



Of course there are similarities in our style of play.

However Rafa won La Liga twice in three seasons with Valencia and lifted the European Cup in his first season at Liverpool.

This should be enough to avoid comparisons.

What Mike said 

Still can't believe Stu 'The Red' Houllier hasn't replied 

[JohnBull]

We are only four games into the season I no but there seems to be striking similaritys between the way Rafa has his team set out to the team of Houlliers .

UnfrigginBELIEVABLE !!!!



Raffa/Houllier = Can Do/Couldn't Do, Chalk/Cheese, Black/White
There was a team going no where that is now having foundations built and this is ther best position we've been in for YEARS. Absolutely NO COMPARISON !!!

[A.B.]

Houllier - bought average players at best for millions [i.e Diouf 10 million, Diao 5 million, Cheyrou,etc...]

Benitez - players that have been average have cost us peanuts.

Houllier got us only to play one style of football, and that was hoofing the ball up front. Benitez can get his team many different ways, he can create a ballance of the way we play. There's more variety in Rafa's tactics than they were in Houllier.

[66-1112520797]

Are you serious?

Houllier comes in, hacks the squad to pieces (selling many crowd favourites), brings in a slew of his own players - many of them French - and decides that he needs to work on the defence and make Liverpool first and foremost a hard to beat side. He perseveres with many of his signings who are clearly not suited to the Premiership, facing accusations of having undroppable favourites.

He brings in two new keepers that many fans thought we didn't need and buys a large, ungainly, non goalscoring striker that everyone thinks we overpaid for.

We are hard to beat, but critics claim we do not play attractive or attacking football and call us long-ball merchants.

We do not look like challenging for the title soon.

Times passes.....

Rafa comes in, hacks the squad to pieces (selling many crowd favourites), brings in a slew of his own players - many of them Spanish - and decides that he needs to work on the defence and make Liverpool first and foremost a hard to beat side.

He perseveres with many of his signings who are clearly not suited to the Premiership, facing accusations of having undroppable favourites.

He brings in two new keepers that many fans thought we din't need, and buys a large, ungainly non goalscoring striker that everyone thinks we overpaid for.

We are hard to beat, but critics claim we do not play attractive or attacking football and call us long-ball merchants.

We do not look like challenging for the title soon.



Of course there are similarities in our style of play.

However Rafa won La Liga twice in three seasons with Valencia and lifted the European Cup in his first season at Liverpool.

This should be enough to avoid comparisons.

Ok this is a forum and i was just trying to put an objective point of view across,I didnt expalin the initial thread properly i was trying to compare there on field performances nothing else.Not there characters not there spending just the football.

Im just trying to compare the way the teams are set out each week.whether it be 4-5-1 or 4-4-2
The teams seem short of ideas when going forward although I did say Houlliers team looked more potent going forwrd.

So Rafa has won La liga and the Uefa cup but the premiership is a whole different kettle of fish ,he is trying to mould a continental side into the premiership.

At the end of the day it maybe Rafa who needs to change his gameplan thats all.If of course the current system doesnt work out.

I heard almost every member on here moan about  the results we have got so far ,early in the seasosn.
I try to put a different perspective on it and get critised for it okl fair enough.
After the results  everyone points the finger at the players for not getting the result,can we not point the finger at  the management ?
Just because he is our new manager we all look to ,to bring the glory days back that doesnt mean I cant question the way the team is set out.

[66-1112520797]

Sorry to carry on but its like nothing negative can be said about the bloke !

Also he failed in his attempts to sign the players he wanted during the the transfer window ,come on people I know its hard trying to purchase new players and all but we were the European champions and yet still failed to lure talent to merseyside.

Im mean if it wasnt for Gollum across stanley park we probably would never of bought the best signing we have made all summer.

[A.B.]

Sorry to carry on but its like nothing negative can be said about the bloke !

Also he failed in his attempts to sign the players he wanted during the the transfer window ,come on people I know its hard trying to purchase new players and all but we were the European champions and yet still failed to lure talent to merseyside.

Im mean if it wasnt for Gollum across stanley park we probably would never of bought the best signing we have made all summer.

Were you living under a rock this past summer? Players like Milito, along with countless others wanted to join with us but the clubs they were under contract with hiked up their prices and made it difficult for us to sign them.

[A.B.]

Ok this is a forum and i was just trying to put an objective point of view across,I didnt expalin the initial thread properly i was trying to compare there on field performances nothing else.Not there characters not there spending just the football.

Im just trying to compare the way the teams are set out each week.whether it be 4-5-1 or 4-4-2
The teams seem short of ideas when going forward although I did say Houlliers team looked more potent going forwrd.

So Rafa has won La liga and the Uefa cup but the premiership is a whole different kettle of fish ,he is trying to mould a continental side into the premiership.

At the end of the day it maybe Rafa who needs to change his gameplan thats all.If of course the current system doesnt work out.

I heard almost every member on here moan about  the results we have got so far ,early in the seasosn.
I try to put a different perspective on it and get critised for it okl fair enough.
After the results  everyone points the finger at the players for not getting the result,can we not point the finger at  the management ?
Just because he is our new manager we all look to ,to bring the glory days back that doesnt mean I cant question the way the team is set out.

The problem is not creating chances, it's finishing them. We've created golden goal chances in every game but we've failed to score. You can't say that we're not playing well when we go forward if we create chance after chance. What you can blame is the end product.

[A.B.]

So back to the Houllier thing then ,he won the Uefa ,Fa and league cup while he was manager and Liverpool fans thought he might bring the premiership title back to Anfield.
But he didnt the team seemed short of ideas and lost inspiration two years down the track,alot of which was blamed torwards the tactics.
Is the same thing gonna happen to Rafa He has won the CL the team seem to be playing a boring style of play if nothing happens say in the next few years will everybody be calling for his head ? On this forum im sure they will.
Can or will Rafa change his gameplan if need be ?

After the time we finished second in the league the tactics failed because most teams in the Premiership knew how to play against them. Houllier didn't have any other way style of play other than to tacticize around Michael Owen.

That's where the difference lies. Benitez on the other hand can change things around. He doesn't have the same tactics in every game and the way we play is a combination of various things. Whether it be passing our way forward, counter-attacking or going via aierial balls.

Houllier played up front because Michael Owen needed a striker alongside with him who could feed him the balls [Heskey] thats why he played with two up front.

You can have an attacking team with the 4-5-1 formation and you can have a defencive team with a 4-4-2 formation, it all depends on the personal in the squad.