Liverpool FC Forum

[Stu the Red]

I think the point is that you can't stick good, expensive individuals into a squad and expect to automatically create a good team. It doesn't work like that. Looking at City vs Stoke yesterday is a good example. I saw a replay of the game expecting to see Begovic making impossible saves to keep the game at 0-0 but it was actually the opposite. Hart had to work really hard to win a point for City.

Some things are just more important than spending a lot of money on expensive individuals. Team spirit, chemistry and tactics that suit the players (players that suit the tactic) are also important. Balancing this with spending big if necessary is the way to success. Man Utd (Ferguson) managed that and that's why they were on top for so long.

Money doesn't guarantee success.

Neither does hard work.

You need quality. Without quality, over 38 games you will be found out. Absolute, cast iron fact.

The final league table never lies. Never has, never will.

[Stu the Red]

I think the point is that you can't stick good, expensive individuals into a squad and expect to automatically create a good team. It doesn't work like that. Looking at City vs Stoke yesterday is a good example. I saw a replay of the game expecting to see Begovic making impossible saves to keep the game at 0-0 but it was actually the opposite. Hart had to work really hard to win a point for City.

Some things are just more important than spending a lot of money on expensive individuals. Team spirit, chemistry and tactics that suit the players (players that suit the tactic) are also important. Balancing this with spending big if necessary is the way to success. Man Utd (Ferguson) managed that and that's why they were on top for so long.

Purple nose intimidated, bullied, bullsh'itted and cheated
THAT'S why they were on top for so long
Gollum wont be able to do this...

Behave

[RedAnt]

No, you're still missing the point. The other teams are great, bla-bla-bla...expensive, high wages and winning things with City, and Chelsea, and whoever opt for the big money approach.

We, for whichever reason, don't have Messi for masses of money per week. We have different players. Players that aren't hugely gifted. Our squad is nowhere near as expensive as Real, or City, or any of the big spenders.

Aspas isn't widely known, not did he cost £65m, but so long as he, and the other "cheap" buys apply themselves in a way best suited to the overall chemistry of the team, there's no reason we can't be in with a shout.

Better to have hope and faith than not too. Resources we should have in abundance.

That's my point.

[damjan193]

I think the point is that you can't stick good, expensive individuals into a squad and expect to automatically create a good team. It doesn't work like that. Looking at City vs Stoke yesterday is a good example. I saw a replay of the game expecting to see Begovic making impossible saves to keep the game at 0-0 but it was actually the opposite. Hart had to work really hard to win a point for City.

Some things are just more important than spending a lot of money on expensive individuals. Team spirit, chemistry and tactics that suit the players (players that suit the tactic) are also important. Balancing this with spending big if necessary is the way to success. Man Utd (Ferguson) managed that and that's why they were on top for so long.

Purple nose intimidated, bullied, bullsh'itted and cheated
THAT'S why they were on top for so long
Gollum wont be able to do this...

That too

[aCe']

You guys are both missing my point. You're also naive to believe that the value of the player somehow reflects his personality. You're also short sighted to discount chemistry and how it effects every lil thing in every lil way. The whole universe is subject to chemistry, why would football be different?

Pay £1000000000 for Dennis Bergkamp, and he would still be afraid of flying. Money dosen't fix such things and niether did a desire to play European football.

Paying Messi a fortune will get him to play, but it dosen't make him immune to fear of leg breaking tackles. It wouldn't guarantee he'd turn a poor team into a good one.

The closer to the top of football you get, the narrower the margin for error. A poor game by a top player could decide a league title even if everyone else played well.

When your opponent is technically superior, then you have to outsmart them, or beat them physically. Or find other ways of achieving victory. That's obvious isn't it?

As things stand, we have to put our faith in what we have, and work hard to utilise it. Forget the fortunes we've spent in the past. Compared to City, we've played fair.

I don't get it...

He can see the garage door, he can see the obstacle, but he's still arguing the possibility if not the merits of driving through it. I get that it is theoretically at least possible but realistically, you're likely to struggle when you waste as much money as we have done. The technically inferior players we have that you speak off would have to play above their abilities for 30+ games to get us to that point and it's just not doable. Obviously, on any given night, we can beat anyone -as proven by our recent win over Utd- but over the course of 38 games you need a bit more than luck, hard work, physicality...etc to outperform better sides around you.

It might sounds negative what I'm saying but its more a response to the stance you're taking rather than an assertion from my side that we wont make the top4. I've maintained since the start of the season that we have a few outstanding players and a decent amount of good ones who -if managed right- can keep us in the hunt for 4th until January. By then, a couple of good additions and I believe we'll have a squad that is comparable in quality to those of Arsenal and Tottenham.

[RedAnt]

We're saying exactly the same, Ace. I'm just more romantic than you. We still have an old school Roy of the Rovers in Gerrard. I've already stated several times that it would never be easy. We're up against it, no question. But every year I say "this season!". The only difference for me on a personal level this season is that we happen to have made a good start towards the "this season!" hope.

[Stu the Red]

Good post again ACE.

Very much on the same side of the fence I think.

Twenty five million was wasted under Rodgers early days at the club with Borini and Allen coming in.

Now I want to just make some comparrisons....

Borini £10.5m
Allen £15m

Sessignon £6m
Lukaku Loan
Flamini Free
Parker (£1m thought to be, actually undisclosed)
Ireland Loan
Barry Loan
Dembele £15m

Dembele is an excellent player. He moved for the same price as Allen. Sessignon is a good solid direct player who would certainly be an improvement on anything we have on the right side or the attack, moved for £6m. Parker and Flamini were practically freebies. Both are probably better players than Lucas (although Parker is the wrong side of thirty) would certainly at least be an improvement on the back up we currently have in Henderson and Allen.

Lukaku, Ireland and Barry are all loan players, again, they are all players that would add to the squad or improve the squad. Every player mentioned would have added more than the players we wasted that money on.

Hopefully, Rodgers has learnt his lesson. Because they are mistakes we can't afford to make again.

[RedAnt]

That's where I get confused. We don't have the players you list, but we're 100% so far. All the purpose I can see in your idea is to debate the irrelevant, based on something you anticipate.

[RedAnt]

Good post again ACE.

Very much on the same side of the fence I think.

Twenty five million was wasted under Rodgers early days at the club with Borini and Allen coming in.

Now I want to just make some comparrisons....

Borini £10.5m
Allen £15m

Sessignon £6m
Lukaku Loan
Flamini Free
Parker (£1m thought to be, actually undisclosed)
Ireland Loan
Barry Loan
Dembele £15m

Dembele is an excellent player. He moved for the same price as Allen. Sessignon is a good solid direct player who would certainly be an improvement on anything we have on the right side or the attack, moved for £6m. Parker and Flamini were practically freebies. Both are probably better players than Lucas (although Parker is the wrong side of thirty) would certainly at least be an improvement on the back up we currently have in Henderson and Allen.

Lukaku, Ireland and Barry are all loan players, again, they are all players that would add to the squad or improve the squad. Every player mentioned would have added more than the players we wasted that money on.

Hopefully, Rodgers has learnt his lesson. Because they are mistakes we can't afford to make again.

For the record, I'd consider Sessignon, but I don't think the others are anywhere near good enough. I include Allen and Borini in that, so we agree on that.

[devaney]

Stu I bet other teams are asking how did Liverpool get Coutinho for £8m and Sturridge for £12m. Hindsight is an exact science. I agree that we have wasted a ridiculous amount of money on transfers. Compared to some Borini and Allen whilst not good are not the worst over the last few years .

[aCe']

Dembele is one of the best CMs in the league imo. Him in our starting lineup would improve the side considerably imo. From that list, the only other players I'd have are Flamini (would probably get the starting spot ahead of Lucas if he can get his fitness back up to where it was at) and Lukaku (backup to Sturridge).

Point is (what I assume the post by Stu refers to at least), many point out to our financial handicap when compared to the likes of City and Chelsea but theres value out there if we can spot it. Not many I assume would have argued against paying that much for Dembele or for us nicking Parker/Flamini on a free or Barry on loan. Tottenham have done an excellent job over the years identifying good players who didnt cost much and the last one in a long list was Eriksen.

[woof woof !]

Tottenham have done an excellent job over the years identifying good players who didnt cost much and the last one in a long list was Eriksen.

  agreed

Still can't understand why we didn't go in for Eriksen, I'm convinced he'll be a success in the prem and just in terms of a pure investment I'm convinced Eriksens a player who's value will increase significantly over the next two seasons, unlike some of those we've signed in recent times.

[tadhger09]

Tottenham have done an excellent job over the years identifying good players who didnt cost much and the last one in a long list was Eriksen.

  agreed

Still can't understand why we didn't go in for Eriksen, I'm convinced he'll be a success in the prem and just in terms of a pure investment I'm convinced Eriksens a player who's value will increase significantly over the next two seasons, unlike some of those we've signed in recent times.

If you haven't seen it already, may i suggest you check out the flick 'Moneyball' then look at the way we set up in the transfer market. There aren't too many differences at all except for the obvious, its a different sport.

[woof woof !]

Not sure what you point is, would have thought given his price and potential Eriksen was a perfect fit for the Moneyball theory.

[tadhger09]

Not sure what you point is, would have thought given his price and potential Eriksen was a perfect fit for the Moneyball theory.

His price wouldn't qualify him as part of the moneyball theory, too expensive, too much wages and with too great a risk attached to it in terms of sell on value given the money spent and the position in the 11 he plays. Sturridge but more so Coutinho is a prime example of it.