Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

to be honest when luis comes back our front 3 will be as good if not better than anyone else`s in the division (although admittedly some teams like city and chelsea have more depth).
i get the sense a lot of these other teams are struggling a bit for team spirit though, when you have huge squads full of massive earners/big ego`s traits like envy and jealousy are not far away.

Totally agree.

I can't think of a time when the teams with the biggest and best squads ALWAYS finish in the top three places in the league and are the only realistic challengers for the premiership title.

yeah well not this year

[Stu the Red]

to be honest when luis comes back our front 3 will be as good if not better than anyone else`s in the division (although admittedly some teams like city and chelsea have more depth).
i get the sense a lot of these other teams are struggling a bit for team spirit though, when you have huge squads full of massive earners/big ego`s traits like envy and jealousy are not far away.

You're right, mate. There's of course good and bad points to most things. A lot can be said for a small, tight unit. The way I see it, if you have a squad like City's, you're bound to be near the top and you'll hammer some teams along the way, scoring for fun. But there will be three, four, maybe more games per season when something more valuable is needed, and the big names won't mean a thing. That's 9, 12, 15 points dropped per season. There'll be deep fluctuation in such teams, whilst our target will be to remain true and steady.

It really is a test for us. The micro-management and attention to detail needed is immense. I hope and believe (from what I've seen so far) that BR is very shrewd and enjoys the finer details.

When you send the likes of Silva out onto the pitch, you tell them to win the game.

When you send the likes of Aspas out, you tell him HOW to win the game. Overall, that's a much nicer way of winning a game for a manager.

It can be done. It's a tough ask, but if BR plots a precise course to triumph, then people will understand that hard work with limited resources is much more satisfying than buying a title.

Ant, you're making it sound like the top sides don't have desire and commitment mate and you keep doing it.

Let me tell you, the better the player, 999 out of a 1000, the better the commitment to their career.

What you'll find is that at some point, every side in the league will play at 65%, 75%, 85% etc etc and their attitude won't be right all the time, these people are human beings, thats what makes the game so good. But its the sides that can win regularly at 75% and 85% that will take the title and be the challengers. Liverpool don't have the quality to do that regularly.

When I talk about those percentages, that doesn't always account for attitude by the way, that can count for a couple of players just being off the pace, getting out of bed and having a nightmare.

[Stu the Red]

to be honest when luis comes back our front 3 will be as good if not better than anyone else`s in the division (although admittedly some teams like city and chelsea have more depth).
i get the sense a lot of these other teams are struggling a bit for team spirit though, when you have huge squads full of massive earners/big ego`s traits like envy and jealousy are not far away.

Totally agree.

I can't think of a time when the teams with the biggest and best squads ALWAYS finish in the top three places in the league and are the only realistic challengers for the premiership title.

yeah well not this year

I bet you a tenner that City, Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal are the top four at the end of the season

[RedAnt]

Stu, in giving no guarantees, nor making any claims. The big names that came to the PL this year all have very different attitudes. Some will be unfazed. Some will be utterly professional. But some, too, will utterly crumble in derby matches, or in away games against 'lesser' more physical games. They don't understand English football. Some will learn, some won't.

Many continental players see the riches of the PL, Rooneys face on Fifa, and they see the bright lights. They don't consider coming face to face with players they've never heard of, and the absolute kicking they will get in front of the worlds oldest and most knowledgable football fans. They look to the ref for help who will often shrug and tell him to get on with it. Some adapt, some don't.

Managers like Pelligrini are the same. Nice open cheque book. Can sign anyone. If the player dosent adapt, sign a new one and let the other fade away. They don't need to vet a players attitude. Come the end of the season, the reckless scattergun approach will most likely, as you state, pay dividends. The fans will cheer and all that. That's Man City's way and let 'em get in with it.

We, on the other hand, approach the game in a different way, inspired by things Pelligrini and co know little of. An old, working club from a working city, that has always done things the laborious way. Even the rags to riches to world beater Beatles embody that spirit to stay true, use hard graft, and sleep well at night.

I suppose its not even about silver ware. It's about putting bread on the table. Trophy's are a mark of achievement, not a goal. If more people understood that, the world would be a better place.

[RedAnt]

(No offence to any mancunians. I know Manchester works too. I'm referring to Man City)

[aCe']

Stu, in giving no guarantees, nor making any claims. The big names that came to the PL this year all have very different attitudes. Some will be unfazed. Some will be utterly professional. But some, too, will utterly crumble in derby matches, or in away games against 'lesser' more physical games. They don't understand English football. Some will learn, some won't.

Many continental players see the riches of the PL, Rooneys face on Fifa, and they see the bright lights. They don't consider coming face to face with players they've never heard of, and the absolute kicking they will get in front of the worlds oldest and most knowledgable football fans. They look to the ref for help who will often shrug and tell him to get on with it. Some adapt, some don't.

Managers like Pelligrini are the same. Nice open cheque book. Can sign anyone. If the player dosent adapt, sign a new one and let the other fade away. They don't need to vet a players attitude. Come the end of the season, the reckless scattergun approach will most likely, as you state, pay dividends. The fans will cheer and all that. That's Man City's way and let 'em get in with it.

We, on the other hand, approach the game in a different way, inspired by things Pelligrini and co know little of. An old, working club from a working city, that has always done things the laborious way. Even the rags to riches to world beater Beatles embody that spirit to stay true, use hard graft, and sleep well at night.

I suppose its not even about silver ware. It's about putting bread on the table. Trophy's are a mark of achievement, not a goal. If more people understood that, the world would be a better place.

But...but...but.... we've outspent every side in the league outside ManCity and Chelsea over the last few years. Just because we bought bad and wasted a tonne of money, it doesnt make your argument any more valid.

At the end of the day and for all the slogans we as Liverpool fans throw around, Man Utd fought harder, smarter, and better last season and won the league. Matter of fact, 5 other sides did the same and finished higher. The season before, your beloved Man City battled the title away in extra time. The same players who dont understand the league and the fight and work needed showed more determination and passion than what we had.

[Stu the Red]

Stu, in giving no guarantees, nor making any claims. The big names that came to the PL this year all have very different attitudes. Some will be unfazed. Some will be utterly professional. But some, too, will utterly crumble in derby matches, or in away games against 'lesser' more physical games. They don't understand English football. Some will learn, some won't.

Many continental players see the riches of the PL, Rooneys face on Fifa, and they see the bright lights. They don't consider coming face to face with players they've never heard of, and the absolute kicking they will get in front of the worlds oldest and most knowledgable football fans. They look to the ref for help who will often shrug and tell him to get on with it. Some adapt, some don't.

Managers like Pelligrini are the same. Nice open cheque book. Can sign anyone. If the player dosent adapt, sign a new one and let the other fade away. They don't need to vet a players attitude. Come the end of the season, the reckless scattergun approach will most likely, as you state, pay dividends. The fans will cheer and all that. That's Man City's way and let 'em get in with it.

We, on the other hand, approach the game in a different way, inspired by things Pelligrini and co know little of. An old, working club from a working city, that has always done things the laborious way. Even the rags to riches to world beater Beatles embody that spirit to stay true, use hard graft, and sleep well at night.

I suppose its not even about silver ware. It's about putting bread on the table. Trophy's are a mark of achievement, not a goal. If more people understood that, the world would be a better place.

I totally disagree mate with your points about players (the latter part of the post I agree to an extent, but the goal is achievement.)

If you can control a ball in Spain and you can pass a ball in Spain, you can do it in England. If you run fast in France, you'll run fast in England.

There's only two reasons great players don't perform, either the system they're playing in doesn't suit them or get the best out  of them... or they aren't as great as were made out to be in terms of their ability.

All this time to adapt and all that garbage is just cliche media ***** that people think makes them sound clever. You need to adapt personally, i'll have that all day. Obviously you'll consistently perform better once that happens.... but your level of ability doesn't change just because you've moved country. If you're a sh*t house in England, you're still going to be one if you move to Spain etc etc.

Its nothing to do with "being kicked pillar to post". Thats just something the media big up. You must have played football abroad as a kid or whatever, you still get f*cking nutters who'll break your legs abroad and go right through there own family to win a ball. It isn't, contrary to popular belief something thats exclusive to this country.

[Stu the Red]

Stu, in giving no guarantees, nor making any claims. The big names that came to the PL this year all have very different attitudes. Some will be unfazed. Some will be utterly professional. But some, too, will utterly crumble in derby matches, or in away games against 'lesser' more physical games. They don't understand English football. Some will learn, some won't.

Many continental players see the riches of the PL, Rooneys face on Fifa, and they see the bright lights. They don't consider coming face to face with players they've never heard of, and the absolute kicking they will get in front of the worlds oldest and most knowledgable football fans. They look to the ref for help who will often shrug and tell him to get on with it. Some adapt, some don't.

Managers like Pelligrini are the same. Nice open cheque book. Can sign anyone. If the player dosent adapt, sign a new one and let the other fade away. They don't need to vet a players attitude. Come the end of the season, the reckless scattergun approach will most likely, as you state, pay dividends. The fans will cheer and all that. That's Man City's way and let 'em get in with it.

We, on the other hand, approach the game in a different way, inspired by things Pelligrini and co know little of. An old, working club from a working city, that has always done things the laborious way. Even the rags to riches to world beater Beatles embody that spirit to stay true, use hard graft, and sleep well at night.

I suppose its not even about silver ware. It's about putting bread on the table. Trophy's are a mark of achievement, not a goal. If more people understood that, the world would be a better place.

I totally disagree mate with your points about players (the latter part of the post I agree to an extent, but the goal is achievement.)

If you can control a ball in Spain and you can pass a ball in Spain, you can do it in England. If you run fast in France, you'll run fast in England.

There's only two reasons great players don't perform, either the system they're playing in doesn't suit them or get the best out  of them... or they aren't as great as were made out to be in terms of their ability.

All this time to adapt and all that garbage is just cliche media ***** that people think makes them sound clever. You need to adapt personally, i'll have that all day. Obviously you'll consistently perform better once that happens.... but your level of ability doesn't change just because you've moved country. If you're a sh*t house in England, you're still going to be one if you move to Spain etc etc.

Its nothing to do with "being kicked pillar to post". Thats just something the media big up. You must have played football abroad as a kid or whatever, you still get f*cking nutters who'll break your legs abroad and go right through there own family to win a ball. It isn't, contrary to popular belief something thats exclusive to this country.

[RedAnt]

You guys are both missing my point. You're also naive to believe that the value of the player somehow reflects his personality. You're also short sighted to discount chemistry and how it effects every lil thing in every lil way. The whole universe is subject to chemistry, why would football be different?

Pay £1000000000 for Dennis Bergkamp, and he would still be afraid of flying. Money dosen't fix such things and niether did a desire to play European football.

Paying Messi a fortune will get him to play, but it dosen't make him immune to fear of leg breaking tackles. It wouldn't guarantee he'd turn a poor team into a good one.

The closer to the top of football you get, the narrower the margin for error. A poor game by a top player could decide a league title even if everyone else played well.

When your opponent is technically superior, then you have to outsmart them, or beat them physically. Or find other ways of achieving victory. That's obvious isn't it?

As things stand, we have to put our faith in what we have, and work hard to utilise it. Forget the fortunes we've spent in the past. Compared to City, we've played fair.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

StuYesThatStu

I bet you a tenner that City, Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal are the top four at the end of the season

trying to win that tenner back that you put on united to beat us at anfield i expect.

[Stu the Red]

You guys are both missing my point. You're also naive to believe that the value of the player somehow reflects his personality. You're also short sighted to discount chemistry and how it effects every lil thing in every lil way. The whole universe is subject to chemistry, why would football be different?

Pay £1000000000 for Dennis Bergkamp, and he would still be afraid of flying. Money dosen't fix such things and niether did a desire to play European football.

Paying Messi a fortune will get him to play, but it dosen't make him immune to fear of leg breaking tackles. It wouldn't guarantee he'd turn a poor team into a good one.

The closer to the top of football you get, the narrower the margin for error. A poor game by a top player could decide a league title even if everyone else played well.

When your opponent is technically superior, then you have to outsmart them, or beat them physically. Or find other ways of achieving victory. That's obvious isn't it?

As things stand, we have to put our faith in what we have, and work hard to utilise it. Forget the fortunes we've spent in the past. Compared to City, we've played fair.

We aren't missing the point though. I get the impression you think what you're saying is deep and profound. It isn't mate. Its media hype and something we already take as a given. Dennis Bergkamp was afraid of flying yes. Bad example though wasn't he, he won the title with Arsenal and was one of the best players to play in this country.

Chemistry is massively important. Chemistry makes players like Carragher, Terry and Lampard appear to be far better players than they actually are. Chemistry can also be misleading. That's the point we're trying to make. Its fine having players who do a certain thing and it just works. But to be a great side you can only have a couple of those and even then they have to be decent/good players.

If you brought Messi over here and he played for Stoke, he's still the best player in the world by f*cking light years. But he'd never be as effective as he is for Barcelona, thats because he's probably the best player ever and the chemistry is correct. He probably would only score around half the goals playing for someone like Stoke. That doesn't make him any less of a player though, that doesn't make his ability any less as an individual.

Thats the point.

[aCe']

You guys are both missing my point. You're also naive to believe that the value of the player somehow reflects his personality. You're also short sighted to discount chemistry and how it effects every lil thing in every lil way. The whole universe is subject to chemistry, why would football be different?

Pay £1000000000 for Dennis Bergkamp, and he would still be afraid of flying. Money dosen't fix such things and niether did a desire to play European football.

Paying Messi a fortune will get him to play, but it dosen't make him immune to fear of leg breaking tackles. It wouldn't guarantee he'd turn a poor team into a good one.

The closer to the top of football you get, the narrower the margin for error. A poor game by a top player could decide a league title even if everyone else played well.

When your opponent is technically superior, then you have to outsmart them, or beat them physically. Or find other ways of achieving victory. That's obvious isn't it?

As things stand, we have to put our faith in what we have, and work hard to utilise it. Forget the fortunes we've spent in the past. Compared to City, we've played fair.

[Stu the Red]

You guys are both missing my point. You're also naive to believe that the value of the player somehow reflects his personality. You're also short sighted to discount chemistry and how it effects every lil thing in every lil way. The whole universe is subject to chemistry, why would football be different?

Pay £1000000000 for Dennis Bergkamp, and he would still be afraid of flying. Money dosen't fix such things and niether did a desire to play European football.

Paying Messi a fortune will get him to play, but it dosen't make him immune to fear of leg breaking tackles. It wouldn't guarantee he'd turn a poor team into a good one.

The closer to the top of football you get, the narrower the margin for error. A poor game by a top player could decide a league title even if everyone else played well.

When your opponent is technically superior, then you have to outsmart them, or beat them physically. Or find other ways of achieving victory. That's obvious isn't it?

As things stand, we have to put our faith in what we have, and work hard to utilise it. Forget the fortunes we've spent in the past. Compared to City, we've played fair.

I don't get it...

[damjan193]

I think the point is that you can't stick good, expensive individuals into a squad and expect to automatically create a good team. It doesn't work like that. Looking at City vs Stoke yesterday is a good example. I saw a replay of the game expecting to see Begovic making impossible saves to keep the game at 0-0 but it was actually the opposite. Hart had to work really hard to win a point for City.

Some things are just more important than spending a lot of money on expensive individuals. Team spirit, chemistry and tactics that suit the players (players that suit the tactic) are also important. Balancing this with spending big if necessary is the way to success. Man Utd (Ferguson) managed that and that's why they were on top for so long.

[Thommo's perm]

I think the point is that you can't stick good, expensive individuals into a squad and expect to automatically create a good team. It doesn't work like that. Looking at City vs Stoke yesterday is a good example. I saw a replay of the game expecting to see Begovic making impossible saves to keep the game at 0-0 but it was actually the opposite. Hart had to work really hard to win a point for City.

Some things are just more important than spending a lot of money on expensive individuals. Team spirit, chemistry and tactics that suit the players (players that suit the tactic) are also important. Balancing this with spending big if necessary is the way to success. Man Utd (Ferguson) managed that and that's why they were on top for so long.

Purple nose intimidated, bullied, bullsh'itted and cheated
THAT'S why they were on top for so long
Gollum wont be able to do this...