Liverpool FC Forum

[zarababe]

Babel leaves the Kop bouncing

Premier League  Liverpool 2 - 1 Manchester United

Nobody could blame him for savouring the moment. Rafael Benítez, routinely tormented by Manchester United since he arrived at Anfield in 2004, finally felt the joy of a league win in this most particular of North-West fixtures. Come the final whistle, the Spaniard barely knew where to put himself, before ambling on to the pitch to shake as many hands as he could reach.

Such a significant moment for him and for Liverpool, who had experienced enough punishment at the hands of United to have a major insecurity complex. When the visitors eased into the lead before the clock had struck three minutes, a familiar sense of unease swept around Anfield - with the exception of the predictably cocky visitors. It was eight Premier League matches and counting that Liverpool had not beaten United.

That it did not become nine owed much to the home team's willingness to respond. They summoned enough positive energy to ensure that even Sir Alex Ferguson could have no complaints. The Manchester United manager admitted that his team were out-hassled and out-tackled, and notably Liverpool did that fairly enough to end the match without a single booking. To add to Liverpool's sense of satisfaction, this triumph came without much assistance from their two most influential players, neither of whom was fit enough to play a major part. Fernando Torres was a spectator, while Steven Gerrard came on only midway through the second half.

And so Liverpool topped the lunchtime table, with a six-point advantage over the current champions. The feelgood factor that generates is not lost on the players. 'We've been off the pace for far too long and it gives us confidence to know we've just beaten the best side in Europe,' observed Jamie Carragher.

Liverpool also possessed the most impressive debutant of the match, as Alberto Riera, their newly arrived £8m winger, overshadowed Dimitar Berbatov.

It had all looked so promising for United. It took just two-and-a-half minutes to re-exert the superiority they have become used to in this most hostile of arenas thanks to an instant connection between Carlos Tevez and Berbatov. The Argentine's pass released his new team-mate, who outmanoeuvred Carragher and rolled the ball back into a swathe of space soon to be filled by Tevez. He applied the finishing touch with a swaggering curl.

For the first five minutes United's new No 9 looked every inch the £30m-piece-of-the-jigsaw Berbatov. But for the remaining 85 minutes he regressed into the Tottenham-awayday, totally uninterested, hands-on-hips Berbatov.

Through sheer determination, Liverpool found themselves a foothold. Javier Mascherano and Xabi Alonso wrestled control of midfield, Dirk Kuyt and Robbie Keane chased like demons, and it was a worry for United that after their opening salvo they were able to test Pepe Reina so infrequently. The great new attacking trident evidently needs time to bed in.

Liverpool are entitled to feel they deserve a teeny bit of luck from this fixture, and they got plenty in the 27th minute: Alonso's speculative shot made contact with three United players en route to the net. Patrice Evra deflected the ball into no man's land between Edwin van der Sar and Wes Brown and when the keeper flapped the ball at the defender's knee the ball trickled over the line.

Liverpool's improvement continued after the interval and a series of threatening crosses from the left required emergency defending by United. But try as Kuyt and Keane might, there was a conspicuous Torres-sized hole in Liverpool's attack. Without him, they still lack edge.

Half-chances came and went. Van der Sar stooped to save from Yossi Benayoun. Keane, a few yards out, flashed a boot at the ball, but could not make contact. On came Gerrard, only for his first meaningful intervention to give Liverpool a scare, as he was dispossessed by Ryan Giggs, who challenged Reina with a dipping volley.

Considering Rio Ferdinand looked after most of the buzzing movement from Kuyt and Keane without seeming to break out of second gear, it was frustrating for United that the goals they conceded were avoidable. Liverpool's moment of catharsis arrived when Mascherano drove down the right and showed sufficient persistence to draw Giggs and Nemanja Vidic towards the byline. The ball broke away from all of them and was pickpocketed by Kuyt, who tapped the ball back to Ryan Babel. Suddenly it was mayhem on the Kop. Liverpool exorcised the curse. All those barren matches, all that frustration, came pouring out as the Dutchman clipped the ball on the bounce high into the net.

Benítez's reaction was to look down at his watch and bite his nails. But he need not have worried as United lost their composu. They picked up two bookings in quick succession for cynical tackles. Nemanja Vidic's was compounded by a second yellow card and a red, for a needless barge on Xabi Alonso in stoppage time.

United demonstrated last season that a sluggish start can count for nothing come May, but with other teams endeavouring to clamber towards the level they have set, they cannot bank on making up for lost ground every season. It is worth noting their next league match is at Chelsea.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/footbal....united1

[zarababe]

Babel ends United hoodoo

Liverpool 2 Manchester United 1

They came planning to protest against the yankee dollar, or rather the lack of it, and went away celebrating a notable victory which took Liverpool to the top of the Premier League at lunchtime yesterday. It was all the sweeter for coming against their bitter rivals, whose fans had scandalously abused Anfield’s rousing rendition of its old battle hymn, You’ll Never Walk Alone, before the kick-off.

At the end, the result was saluted by players and supporters alike as if the 18-year wait for the title was finally over. That still seems highly unlikely but the backslap-ping-fest was understandable, bearing in mind that it was Rafa Benitez’s first league win against the old enemy in nine attempts. United are six points off the pace already, with Chelsea at Stamford Bridge to come next Sunday.

Sir Alex Ferguson was in Mr Angry mode, on the verge of apoplexy when Nemanja Vidic was deservedly sent off in the 90th minute, for the second of two yellow card assaults, and further discomfited by the injury which saw Michael Carrick leave the stadium on crutches.

United set off at a cracking pace and led in the third minute through Carlos Tevez. For the first 20 minutes they were dominant and seemed set for another victory over opponents they love to beat more than any other. But Liverpool showed impressive “stickability” when the tide was against them and hit back hard in the second half, when they were clearly the better team. They won the all-important midfield battle through the energetic application of Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano and Dirk Kuyt, who rivalled one another for the man of the match honours, and claimed the points with a handsome winner from Ryan Babel.

Ferguson said: “Our start was excellent, but then Liverpool tackled and got about us, never letting us settle. I think their tackling, harassing and pressing the ball was the source of our defeat, and we have to give them credit for that.” The United manager was unhappy with his own team’s performance, and absolved only Rio Ferdinand from blame.

“You don’t expect that sort of performance from Manchester United,” he said. “Our defending was very poor for both goals. We didn’t perform and overall, they were much the better side.”

The Liverpool fans’ declared intention to voice their objections to the way their club was being run was forgotten in the eupho-ria. One of the American owners, George Gillett, was present, the other, Tom Hicks, was not, but attention was riveted to the pitch, rather than the directors’ box, and Gillett was left unscathed.

United gave a debut to Dimitar Berbatov, their £30m signing from Tottenham, and the Bulgari-an was immediately in the thick of the action. In the first minute he let fly with a shot which struck Martin Skrtel on the elbow, appealing unsuccessfully for a penalty, and in the third he cleverly evaded Jamie Carragher near the byline on the right before cutting the ball back for Tevez to score with a high-veloci-ty crack from 15 yards.

In the early stages, with the interplay of Berbatov, Tevez and Wayne Rooney reminiscent of England’s front three against Croatia in Zagreb on Wednesday, United threatened to run away with the contest. But Liverpool dug deep and were encouraged when Edwin Van der Sar flapped at a corner from Fabio Aurelio, presenting Kuyt with a shot which the Dutch goalkeeper needed Paul Scholes’s assistance to clear from danger.

Van der Sar got away with it on that occasion, but not when Liverpool regained parity in the 27th minute. Alonso let fly with a drive from long range that hit Patrice Evra on the 18-yard line, the consequent deflection causing a mix-up between the goalkeeper and Wes Brown. Van der Sar, reaching for the ball, succeeded only in pushing it against the England defender, whose inadvertent contact took it into the net for an embarrassing own-goal.

It was a costly miss and Liverpool, reprieved, took control after the interval. Ferguson sent on Ryan Giggs, Owen Hargreaves and Nani. However, it was Benitez’s substitutes who were the more effective, Babel supplying the winner a quarter of an hour from the end, after replacing Alberto Riera, and Steven Gerrard, who was fit enough for a cameo after his groin surgery, getting a hero’s reception when he took over from Yossi Benayoun midway through the second half.

The decisive goal was the product of Mascherano’s persistence near the byline on the right, where he left Giggs and Vidic floundering before feeding Kuyt, whose cut-back was driven home handsomely on the volley by Babel. United knew the game was up and Vidic was booked for bringing down Robbie Keane as he advanced on goal, then sent off for flattening Alonso with a leading elbow.

Liverpool would have had a third but for the sprawling save with which Van der Sar kept out Kuyt’s close-range shot at the death. They go into Tuesday’s Champions League match away to Marseilles with morale brimming, and must surely be odds-on to extend their unbeaten start to the Premier League at home to Stoke on Saturday.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....763.ece

[zarababe]

Babel breaks United hoodoo

Ferguson's men fade away as Dutch forward earns Benitez first League victory over old enemy

Liverpool's supporters lived up to their promise to march in protest against the club's American owners yesterday morning, then roared their team to a success over Manchester United all the more welcome for its rarity value. It was a remarkable achievement for two reasons: firstly, of their two most talismanic players, Steven Gerrard appeared for only 23 minutes and Fernando Torres not at all; secondly, United had strolled into an early lead, with Dimitar Berbatov initially looking like everything you would hope for from a £30m purchase.
However, Berbatov faded and the champions went with him, going fully 40 minutes either side of half-time without creating a chance. During that period an unfortunate own goal by Wes Brown brought the home side parity, which was converted into deserved victory by Ryan Babel in the final quarter of an hour. So Rafa Benitez has a Premier League win over the old enemy at last, after eight failures, and he celebrated afterwards as the last man to leave the pitch after shaking every player's hand.

United, true to tradition, had started with a bold 4-3-3, using Berbatov in between Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez, then began the second half even more positively by bringing on Ryan Giggs for the injured Michael Carrick, who re-emerged on crutches. It was almost too much of a good thing. By that time they were being pushed back and they were forced to introduce Owen Hargreaves in an unsuccessful attempt to win back some midfield control. In the last few minutes even the central defender Nemanja Vidic was sent into attack, before he was sent off for two yellow cards, each of which could have been red. He will miss Sunday's match at Chelsea

Much as he hates to lose here, of all places, United's manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, admitted through gritted teeth: "Overall they were the far better team. We didn't have one performance, except possibly Rio Ferdinand. The defending was very, very poor for both goals. We started excellently with a wonderful ball from Berbatov for our goal but Liverpool produced a performance of tackling, hassling and forcing us into mistakes. We should be coping better with it than that." He will be hoping Cristiano Ronaldo will be able, as he has hinted, to take a place on the bench at Stamford Bridge.

The pass Ferguson was referring to from Berbatov was cut back with precision from the by-line into the path of the unmarked Tevez for a perfect start. Perhaps United and their followers felt at that stage that it was all going to be straightforward. But soon Edwin van der Sar was forced to save from Dirk Kuyt, and in the 27th minute the goalkeeper palmed Xabi Alonso's speculative, deflected shot on to Brown's leg and into the net.

A jab over the bar by Tevez shortly afterwards was United's last threat until midway through the second half, when Jose Reina did well to push Giggs's dipping volley over the bar. By then, however, Liverpool were in control, the pressing and tackling of Javier Mascherano and Alonso in midfield stifling their opponents. Attacking the Kop end, with the players and crowd inspiring each other, they twice went close through Yossi Benayoun. Thirteen minutes from the end came a re-run of United's goal, with the visiting defenders this time at fault. Giggs and Vidic hesitated as Mascherano forced his way along the by-line and cut back for Babel, a substitute for the debutant Albert Riera, to drive in.

Vidic was fortunate to receive only a yellow card for bringing down Robbie Keane, who would surely have been away for his first Liverpool goal, and at the start of added time the defender was dismissed after catching Alonso with his elbow. Van der Sar saved from Kuyt, then charged upfield, in vain, for a last United corner, from which Rooney – another visiting player who started well then fell away – drove wide.

George Gillett, sitting in the directors' box, must have allowed himself a smile. Unpopular he and his co-owner, Tom Hicks, may be, especially since the decision not to go ahead with a new stadium, but he left Anfield with the team top of the table, in contrast to their sluggish starts in recent seasons. Benitez can hardly complain about being starved of funds and was, in any case, not in a mood for complaining last night. "The players were really good," he said. "We know now we can beat anyone."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport....82.html

[Kharhaz]

I care very much about the opinions of LFC supporters on our victory against the mancs, I care very little about what the press say so needless to say, I think this is a poor thread. A thread raised by your own opinions Zara is very welcome, a thread raised on journalist views isnt.

[zarababe]

Thousands of LFC fans in protest march at Anfield

Liverpool fans protest before Liverpool's game with Manchester United

THOUSANDS of Reds fans took part in a protest march against the club’s owners ahead of today’s big match at Anfield.

The march was organised by the Spirit of Shankly group with several thousand fans turning out to take part ahead of the clash with Manchester United.

The crowd marched from the Liverpool Supporters’ Club, Lower Breck Road, up to Anfield, in a show of strength against owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

Hicks, who has outraged fans consistently ever since he tried to line up a replacement for boss Rafa Benitez, was in the crowd for today's game - the first time he has been at a match at Anfield this season.

And a Spirit of Shankly statement added: "What we need on Saturday is two resounding victories. Firstly, a march on a massive scale that tells the world that Liverpool has had enough of Gillett and Hicks.

"A march of passion, a march of anger, a march of Red solidarity that roars its message loud and proud: 'enough is enough, go now.'

"This is the biggest club game in football and the world will be watching. Our second victory on Saturday comes when we take all that passion and pride inside the ground."

Liverpool won the game against United 2-1, with substitute Ryan Babel scoring the winner in the second half.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpo....1811722

[tubby]

Anfield approach suggests Premier league doomsday is not far off

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport....eunited

"Gillett and his minders are believed to have had to leave a Liverpool city centre pub on Friday night amid concern for the American's safety. Either that or they left in disgust at the early drinking curfew in Ye Cracke's beer garden. "

[tubby]

Anyone read what Wayne Rooney was saying in the papers today? Basically that we still wont be up there come crunch time and that 3rd is the best we can hope for. Fecking cheeky but he is probably right.

[LegBarnes]

Anyone read what Wayne Rooney was saying in the papers today? Basically that we still wont be up there come crunch time and that 3rd is the best we can hope for. Fecking cheeky but he is probably right.

Found that very funny you response Calling him names then agreeing with him classic. 

[Number 9]

Anyone read what Wayne Rooney was saying in the papers today? Basically that we still wont be up there come crunch time and that 3rd is the best we can hope for. Fecking cheeky but he is probably right.

He should be more concerned about his own fecking team..5 points from 12?
Sounds like sour grapes cause we played them off the park at Anfield to me.
Nice to see its still playing on his mind a couple of weeks later!!
Slap it up the fat git!

[zarababe]

Gerrard happy with his role

Steven Gerrard says he has no qualms about being played out of his favoured position at Liverpool and that his game has improved enormously thanks to the exacting standards of Rafael Benítez.

It was only this month that the Liverpool captain revealed his concerns at being taken out of central midfield by both club and country, while he initially struggled to adapt to Benítez's detached managerial style following the Spaniard's arrival from Valencia. Now the England international credits Benítez's methods with a major influence on his career and claims to be "comfortable" with playing in a variety of roles at Anfield.

"I'd prefer to have a manager like Rafa who will tell me where I'm going wrong and where I need to readjust slightly," said Gerrard. "I feel since he's come in here my game has come on in leaps and bounds - he's certainly improved me as a player. OK, he has played me in different positions. But I feel a lot more comfortable now in that I can play almost anywhere on the pitch."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/26/liverpool.premierleague

[burjennio]

well if we finish 3rd I guess Utd are looking at a UEFA cup slot then?

[zarababe]

Do the Big Four clashes really matter?

"Is there any relationship (over a number of seasons) between teams in the 'Big Four' winning games against each other and their final places in the league table?" wonders Andrew Webster. "It seems to me that the ability to win away at Stoke, Wigan or Fulham might be more important in terms of title aspirations than whether you win or draw at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, etc."

This was (briefly) mentioned in Football Weekly this week, though we didn't have a clue to the answer. So, not for the first time, it's left to the Knowledge to clear the issue up.

So taking the 2002-03 season as the dawn of the Big Four era (with nods to Newcastle and Everton who broke into the elite group in 2003 and 2005 respectively), here are the standings:

2002/03
PREMIER LEAGUE: Man U 83pts, Arsenal 78, Chelsea 67, Liverpool 64
BIG FOUR LEAGUE: Man U 14pts, Arsenal 7, Liverpool 5, Chelsea 5

2003/04
PREMIER LEAGUE: Arsenal 90pts, Chelsea 79, Man U 75, Liverpool 60
BIG FOUR LEAGUE: Arsenal 14pts, Chelsea 7, Man U 6, Liverpool 6

2004/05
PREMIER LEAGUE: Chelsea 95pts, Arsenal 83, Man U 77, Liverpool 58
BIG FOUR LEAGUE: Chelsea 14pts, Man U 12, Arsenal 5, Liverpool 3

2005/06
PREMIER LEAGUE: Chelsea 91pts, Man U 83, Liverpool 82, Arsenal 67
BIG FOUR LEAGUE: Chelsea 15pts, Man U 11, Liverpool 4, Arsenal 4

2006/07
PREMIER LEAGUE: Man U 89pts, Chelsea 83, Liverpool 68, Arsenal 68
BIG FOUR LEAGUE: Arsenal 14pts, Man U 11, Liverpool 6, Chelsea 5

2007/08
PREMIER LEAGUE: Man U 87pts, Chelsea 85, Arsenal 83, Liverpool 76
BIG FOUR LEAGUE: Man U 13pts, Chelsea 10, Arsenal 6, Liverpool 4

Pick the bones out of that. Well, it seems clear that the games between the Big Four do matter. In three of the last six seasons, the Big Four mini-league is the exact match of the final Premier League table, and in five of the six seasons the winner of the mini-league has gone on to take the title.

The only anomaly comes in 2006-07 when Arsenal romped to the mini-league title but finished fourth in the real thing. Arsène Wenger's side's success at Old Trafford and victories over Liverpool and United at the Emirates were offset by the points dropped against West Ham, Middlesbrough and co.

And no side has won the title having finished lower than second in the head-to-head contest. The overall theme is fairly emphatic, therefore - win the Big Four clashes to win the Premier League title. Looks like Liverpool are a good bet for the championship this year, then"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/footbal....runited

Good news then ppl

[burjennio]

the 06-07 stats arnt right. arsenal beat the manc h&a, and us at the emirates. be we tanked them at anfield and they drew twice with chelsea giving them 11 points and the mancs only got 8, we got 6 and chelsea got 7. where'd u get these stats?

[tubby]

Anyone read what Wayne Rooney was saying in the papers today? Basically that we still wont be up there come crunch time and that 3rd is the best we can hope for. Fecking cheeky but he is probably right.

He should be more concerned about his own fecking team..5 points from 12?
Sounds like sour grapes cause we played them off the park at Anfield to me.
Nice to see its still playing on his mind a couple of weeks later!!
Slap it up the fat git!

Yeah he should keep his gob shut really seeing how utd have been doing but then again they got a similar amount of points after this many games last season even losing at home to Man City and still won the league. I just hope we can sustain our league form then that will really give them something to fume about.

[zarababe]

. where'd u get these stats?

check out the link