Liverpool FC Forum

[Boxscarf]

The FA are surely staring down the barrels of a corporate manslaughter charge aren't they?

[The Hustler]

Are you saying Thommos Perm that we should prosecute the FA now for making us play at a stadium 23 years ago?

LFC were probably aware of the problems at Hillsborough at the time, prior to the Semi-Final.

I reckon a lot of standing terraces at that time were a bit unsafe, and the game has changed so much since then.

I am asking if the club has any intention of challenging the FA about its role in the disaster, and possibly looking to prosecute them if they knew there wasnt a safety certificate?
Dont forget it wasnt the standing that killed people, it was the crushing against the steel cage that was locked. If the steel fences wouldnt have been there most, if not all would have survived because they would have spilled over on to the pitch.

Dont know about that. One thing I do know is Dukenfield should hang by his f@cking neck for ordering them gates to be opened.
That MP should be stripped of his knighthood, all the coppers who doctered their statements thrown in jail, and damages paid to the families.

That for starters will do.

[Thommo's perm]

Are you saying Thommos Perm that we should prosecute the FA now for making us play at a stadium 23 years ago?

LFC were probably aware of the problems at Hillsborough at the time, prior to the Semi-Final.

I reckon a lot of standing terraces at that time were a bit unsafe, and the game has changed so much since then.

I am asking if the club has any intention of challenging the FA about its role in the disaster, and possibly looking to prosecute them if they knew there wasnt a safety certificate?
Dont forget it wasnt the standing that killed people, it was the crushing against the steel cage that was locked. If the steel fences wouldnt have been there most, if not all would have survived because they would have spilled over on to the pitch.

Dont know about that. One thing I do know is Dukenfield should hang by his f@cking neck for ordering them gates to be opened.
That MP should be stripped of his knighthood, all the coppers who doctered their statements thrown in jail, and damages paid to the families.

That for starters will do.

Dont know about what?

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

the fences themselves werent the idea of the F.A though, they came about after the McElhone report, and Frank McElhone wasnt a hang em/flog em type tory, he was a labour MP from glasgow.
in the mid 70`s hooliganism was a massive problem and the powers that be didnt know what else to do, McElhone`s reasoning was that fences would at least keep opposing fans apart when they were in the stadiums and they would also stop fans invading the pitch (another big problem in the 70`s)
dont forget there was fighting up and down the country every saturday afternoon, fans were being beaten, stabbed and slashed (even murdered like that blackpool fan who was stabbed when they played bolton) and objects like darts and knives were regularly thrown within the stadiums.
by 1976-77 i think the authorities had decided that drastic action needed to be taken hence the fences going up.

[dundreamin]

The FA, the Govenment and the clubs back then and nowdays sky did,nt and don't give a flying fook about the fans. As long as the corporates are getting looked after, we the fans are a secondly worry. Yes corporates were being looked after in the 80,s. Yuppies and all that. The Tories and Thatcher in particular are too blame and this also applies today to sum it up in one word GREED

[Kharhaz]

I always feel let down when LFC seem to do nothing to challenge the powers that be in football.

What can the club do?

When corruption is at its height, and money, to this day speak greater volumes, what indeed can the club do?

It has took 23 years for the Hillsborough tragedy to shed some kind of light on whats happened. Everybody around the world now knows what has gone on with regards to the injustice.

But the next question is, what can be done?

Its like the politicians and the expenses scandal, its like Tony Blair and the Iraq war, we all know what has happened, we all know the lies, but when it comes to action, well... it all comes to one stand still.

What can the club do?

If I could find an answer to the question "what could I do?" I may provide an answer.

[Reg]

Like the majority of fans, I have followed the Justiuce campaign from afar and don't know the finer detail of the campaign so some of my comments might be factually wrong, if so, please forgive me.

I question the FA's position in this.  96 people died at one of their competition games, in a stadium they approved. They were ultimately responsible for the event as it was an 'FA Cup' game, even though SWFC probably arranged police cover, stewards and other aspects of the match day and stadium management. For a fee, hence the responsibility was with the contractor not the sub-contractor.

Surely the FA were involved in the original investigation? Sat on committee's and heard the evidence/witness statements from the police, fans, local emergency services? If Margaret Thatcher expressed concern in Cabinet that the first inquiry into the disaster contained 'devastating criticism of the police' when why didn't the FA come to the same conclusion and realise the report was a hash? And did the Thatcher government discuss the same concerns with the FA?

Aren't the FA the watchdog of British football? Aren't they responsible to the fans? To protect the rights of individual clubs, players and fans? Haven't they denied justice to LFC, the players on that day and the entire fan following?

Why did the FA not stand up and defend LFC fans against the allegations of the Sun and the many other people who inaccurately attacked the behaviour of the fans that day?

The actions and attitude of the coppers that day will be sorted out in a court of law, mark my words, but the shameless actions of the FA who meekly washed their hands of all of this is what really winds me up.

The insiders - police, ambulence, government always knew what really happened that day so you have to assume (as they were part of the same investigation body) the FA did as well and they failed to stand up for us all - the club, the fanbase and the innocent families so tragically caught up in the disaster. The FA should also be investigated and prosecuted for AVERTING THE CAUSE OF JUSTICE.

One last sad parrallel comment........ UEFA never allowed an official enquiry into Heysel.  Corruption from top to bottom.

But lads, a simple apology from the FA isn't sufficient. The FA needs to be dragged into the dock and brought to account.

[Kenny Kan]

Hi Reg,

I'm presuming (don't quote me on it), the FA wouldn't have been part of the cover up. From what I can gather, the police (Bettison and other senior officials) certainly, and Irvine Patnick more than likely, were the ones who concocted the lies. Patnick was the MP for Sheffield Hallam, not Hillsborough. I 'think' the MP of Hillsborough may have been a Labour candidate (can't remember his name) but I read somewhere that he stated he wasn't even allowed into the gymnasium - while Irvine Patnick was. I don't think the FA were at the scene neither when these stories were fabricated. Yes, they are negligent and should be held accountable definitely but I can't see them being there in that room so soon after the events.

I think this was way above them. Tory MP, senior police officers, the home office and Thatcher more likely. And he is a very plausible reason why:

The truth is that back in the 80s the police effectively became Thatcher’s homeland militia. The ones who helped her smash the unions at Wapping and during the miners’ strike. The ones she always rewarded with big pay rises when other public servants were shafted. Pay packets that would be placed in the front of their vans to taunt the skint striking miners they were at war with.

In 1984, at a coking plant in Orgreave, South Yorkshire, police claimed they had been attacked by striking miners, and prosecuted 95 people for riot and unlawful assembly.

It became known in the media as the Battle of Orgreave. All were acquitted, after defence lawyers argued that police evidence was false, fabricated and that an officer’s signature on a statement was forged.

In 1991, the police were forced to pay out £425,000 to settle civil actions with 39 arrested miners. Mike Mansfield QC, who defended three of the accused miners, today argues that South Yorkshire police, under Peter Wright, the same chief constable in charge during Hillsborough, had been “institutionally corrupt”.

Small wonder the corruption carried on at Hillsborough. Small wonder that hand-picked officers were encouraged to twist the words of their own colleagues to make Peter Wright and his force smell of roses.

Well, who was going to notice? After all they are scumbag football fans and we are Her Majesty’s police. Who’s going to believe us if it ever gets out?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/br ... en-1323332

[The Hustler]

[quote="The Hustler » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:06 pm"

Dont know about what?

Whether the FA should be prosecuted. Sheffield wednesday are more to blame, who introduced the fences to stop the crowd moving sideways. Them cage type fences were at many grounds back then. Lfc played there the year before without major incident!?

[Kenny Kan]

[Thommo's perm]

Heres a cracker that someone sent me:

The Worrying Relationship between Manchester United & Referees
By Nadim Bedran
"Manchester United get favourable decision from referees. We see it happen time and time again. Surely this can’t just be coincidence? This disgruntled Liverpool supporter has dug a little deeper and found that maybe there is a lot more than meets the eye. Chelsea fans feel even more aggrieved after reading this…
I’ve long held the view that something very fishy goes on in English football. I’m not the most naturally trusting of guys anyways. When it comes to institutions, I’m downright sceptical of them. I have very little respect or trust in governments, police, the media or football institutions. It’s not me being paranoid either: week after week, I’m proven correct on my doubts about them (to any Liverpool fan the findings of the Hillsborough report came as absolutely no surprise). When it comes to football, it’s not even lack of trust. It’s plain common sense. In recent years, we’ve had a huge number of corruption scandals all across Europe. Several of them in Italy, the corrupt referee Hoyser in Germany, Fenerbahce being docked their title in Turkey, Spain’s second division scandals, Marseille a while ago in France, Porto in Portugal etc…
Of course, the one league where nothing ever gets proven to be dodgy is in England. The richest and most watched league in the world is, we are told, completely squeaky clean. Leaving aside the sheer ridiculousness of that statement, ask yourself this: if corruption gets proven all across Europe, how is the most popular league in the world, with the biggest prize money in football, whose clubs are owned by some of the richest people in the world, run by stakeholders that are often the most powerful media moguls in the world, immune from this? With the amounts of money at stake, how has it managed to be so clean for so long? To dismiss any talks of corruption in the premier league is to fall for two of the traits that characterize the English the most: a sheer egocentric belief that they are better than anyone else and their complete faith in the country’s institutions. To them, it’s entirely logical that that stuff goes on abroad where institutions are corrupt, but it’s impossible in England. Just like diving is a foreign disease and Uruguay is the epicentre of racism, unlike the multi cultural tolerance of middle England. I share neither of those traits. By pure logic, when I see corruption in every facet of English life (MP’s expenses scandal, banking sector, the war on Iraq, Leveson enquiry, Hillsborough, The Guilford 4, The Birmingham 6 et all…) as well as entire European football, I ask why is it impossible as many deem, for it to be happening in English football too?
I have followed football since 1986. I have seen for years how Manchester United benefit from refereeing decisions. I don’t need an investigation to tell me this: it happens on a near weekly basis to the point where people are so immune to it, they laugh it off. I have seen the influence Alex Ferguson has on every facet of the English game. When his Darren son got fired as manager of Preston North End, I watched with bemusement as Ferguson immediately recalled his loan players from Deepdale. I then watched in horror as another club in the premier league, managed by Ferguson’s father’s friend Tony Pulis, also recalled their loan players from PNE. The message was clear: mess with Mr Ferguson or his children, and you will be punished, and not just from Mr Ferguson either but by his friends in football.                                                                                   
Recently, ex referee Jeff Winter stated that he once sent Roy Keane off in a match. He was then criticized by Ferguson and not given a Manchester United game to referee for 2 years. He saw that as punishment as he said that “The FA is reticent to give Manchester United games to referees that Ferguson has criticized in the past”. Read that statement again. Ferguson criticizes referees that give decisions against his club. Most likely, these decisions happen in games Manchester United lose. The FA reacts to the criticism by not assigning said referees in future Manchester United games.
Thus, the only referees assigned to United games are ones that Ferguson approves of. The referees that have given decisions Ferguson deems to be incorrect against United, however, no longer referee their games (usually the most high profile ones). It’s a terrible indictment of sporting impartiality, justice and the way the game is run in England. This form of selective referee assignment led to the Juventus scandal in 2006. Winter’s comments prompted me to do my own research. I focused on the referees that took charge of United’s two biggest high profile losses in the last decade or so. Alan Wiley refereed United’s 4-1 loss to Liverpool in 2009. In that game, he gave both United and Liverpool penalties and sent off Nemanja Vidic. All 3 decisions were absolutely correct and Wiley was praised by Sky TV co-commentator Andy Gray for his performance. Not even Ferguson complained. Later that year, Wiley was given another United game to referee and despite sending off Kieran Richardson of Sunderland, Wiley was lambasted by Ferguson for being “fat and unfit”. The game ended 2-2. That would be the end of Wiley’s refereeing career. Wiley, it says cryptically on his Wikipedia page, “agreed to retire” at the end of that season. Agreed with whom? No one knows.
Last season, Manchester City romped to a 6-1 win at Old Trafford, inflicting on their rivals their biggest embarrassment under Ferguson. The referee on that day was Mark Clattenburg. He sent Johnny Evans off in the second half for a clear professional foul. It seems that the FA, for whatever reason, doesn’t want Clattenburg to referee Man United games anymore. Some of us more paranoid folk may just wonder who’s behind that decision. There have been 34 Man United league games since that day. The number of times Clattenburg has refereed them? Zero. Not a single one. Some of us more paranoid folk may just wonder who’s behind that decision. The FA has no hesitation to hand United games to Howard Webb though: he’s been the most used referee in 34 United games since the 6-1 defeat to City. Webb’s history in Man United games are well known and documented. All I have to say on the matter is that more than 18% of the penalties he’s awarded in his ENTIRE premier league refereeing career have gone to Manchester United. Over a 9 year period, that’s a huge percentage. So in closing, let’s resume what we’ve discovered. We have an ex Premier League referee who has openly stated he was not handed a Manchester United game for 2 years after sending off one of their players. We have an FA who, in said referee’s words, don’t hand Manchester United games to referees that the United manager has previously criticized. We have a referee who took charge of a heavy United defeat and “agreed to retire” a year later after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson. We have another referee who hasn’t been handed a United game to officiate since he reffed a heavy United defeat 34 league games ago. Meanwhile, the most used official in United games in that time is the man who has handed 18% of his entire career penalty awards to Ferguson’s team.                                                                                                         
Factor in the fact that the Manchester United CEO is ON THE BOARD OF the English FA, Alex Ferguson is a knight of the realm with political connections that go a lot deeper than football (just read Alastair Campbell’s diaries if you don’t believe me), and the evidence in the Darren Ferguson sacking that clubs that cross Ferguson get punished by his friends, and you have all the tools there for someone more investigative than me to really delve into, and yet nothing happens. Year on year, I watch as not a single journalist utters a peep on the subject. I watch as decision after decision goes United’s way and people in the UK, so much better than everyone else and trusting of their institutions remember, brush them off with insouciance. In Italy, there would have been phone tap investigations a long time ago. In “so much cleaner than everywhere else” England, we’re paranoid. Why is that? Well, when you look at who runs the sport in the country, you understand a bit more. Rupert Murdoch’s Sky lives off the Premier League. So do his other publications like The Sun. The English media’s last priority is going to investigate and damage one of their biggest cash cows. Imagine the hit to the revenue streams of the media and clubs if corruption is proved in the premier league? The richest league in the world, so carefully and beautifully marketed across the world, would suffer a huge blow. The effects an investigation would have on Manchester United, the cash cow’s biggest cash cow, would also be devastating. So it’s all swept under the table and every refereeing decision shrugged off. “They even themselves out” we’re told by journalists who get banned from United press conferences for asking a question about team selection. God knows what would happen to them if they investigate United’s behind the scenes dealings. Maybe, like Preston, they’ll learn that if you cross Man United, all of football will turn their backs on you too…"

This article originally appeared on The Dim In Beirut You can follow Nadim on twitter @dimmybad
"After I wrote my last piece, on Manchester United’s relationship with the FA, I was taken aback by the response I had. I suggest to people who haven’t read it to jump to that post now as it gives a lot of background on what we will look at in this article. As stated in my previous post, the fortunes of the institutions surrounding football in the UK will be negatively hit should any proof of corruption come out. It is naturally in their interest not to investigate the matter. In fact, the managers that have come out and questioned the refereeing selection process (Rafa Benitez, Andre Villas Boas) have been turned into laughing stocks by the English press corps. So, investigate some more I did. And some of the stuff I found out surprised even me.
During United’s title winning 2010/11 season, they only lost four league games. I looked at who refereed those games and how long they then spent without being assigned Manchester United games as well their subsequent trend of behaviour towards United. Michael Oliver took charge of their first defeat, the February 2011 2-1 loss at Wolves. He was not given another Manchester United game to referee until December 2011. Since then, Oliver has had 2 United games. United have won both, with Oliver refusing to give a clear Fulham penalty in the 1-0 United win late last season at Old Trafford; a game came right at the end of the title race. A few weeks ago, Oliver gave United a penalty for a shocking dive by Danny Welbeck in the home win against Wigan.           
The second game United lost was away to Chelsea. Martin Atkinson was the referee then and some of his decisions incurred the wrath of Alex Ferguson. Atkinson was not given another United game to referee for AN ENTIRE YEAR. Atkinson was further punished with his decisions that went against United that day. He was not given a single Premier League game to referee for a full month. Even worse, he was subsequently given 3 lower league games to referee that season- when he’d previously not officiated a single one that campaign. It seems that Atkinson was given a clear message that day. Giving United penalties in the very next game you referee for them after having been criticized is a trend we’ll soon notice.                                                                                                                                       
The third United loss came at Anfield, where a Dirk Kuyt hat trick secured a 3-1 home win. The referee that day was Phil Dowd. He was criticized by Ferguson for not sending Jamie Carragher off. In the very next United game Dowd refereed, he gave them a penalty which secured a 1-1 draw at Blackburn and their 19th league title.                                                                                                                                     
The final United loss of the 2010/11 season came at the Emirates, where Chris Foy refereed a 1-0 Arsenal win. It will come to no surprise to people to know that Foy was subsequently not assigned a United league game for, again, AN ENTIRE YEAR. He did however referee 2 United games in the cups during that time. The first was in the Carling Cup against Crystal Palace. He awarded United a penalty. The second was at Manchester City in the FA Cup. United got a penalty and Vincent Kompany was sent off early in the game.
To resume, we’ve just analyzed what happened to the 4 referees that officiated United’s 4 league losses in the 2010/11 season. 2 of them were not given any more United league games for a full year (Atkinson and Foy), a third for 9 months (Oliver). 2 of those referees gave United penalties in the very next game (Foy and Dowd) they took charge of and one refused to give a blatant one to the opponents (Oliver). Martin Atkinson, was not given Premier League games to officiate for an entire month and assigned to 3 lower league games. When Halsey gave WBA a debatable penalty in the 1-1 draw at Old Trafford in May 2005 it was his 5th United game that season. He then also went an ENTIRE YEAR without being given any United games to referee. From 5 games in a season to none for a year…I also looked at Mike Jones after prompting from the comments board. Jones refereed the 1-1 home draw with Newcastle last season and falsely awarded Demba Ba a penalty. Subsequently, Jones was not given a single football game, at ANY level, to referee for an entire month. The next United game he was handed came a few months later, the 2-0 home win against Stoke which saw… You guessed it: 2 penalties awarded to Manchester United which, according to reports, were “very soft”. How about Mark Halsey? Well, when he gave WBA a debatable penalty in the 1-1 draw at Old Trafford in May 2005 it was his 5th United game that season. He then also went an ENTIRE YEAR without being given any United games to referee. From 5 games in a season to none for a year. His record since then? He’s refereed 11 Man Utd games which have seen 11 United wins: the latest coming at Anfield, where 3 controversial decisions went the away team’s way.
In terms of trends, considering what we discovered about Alan Wiley and Mark Clattenburg (whose record with no United games to referee now stands at 36 league games since he took charge of the 6-1 home loss to City), there’s enough to make you wonder what exactly is going on in the referee selection process. It also ties in perfectly with ex referee Jeff Winter’s comments about The FA being reticent to assign United games to referees Ferguson has criticized in the past.
I don’t blame the referees…The people I blame are the ones that are letting this happen
The whole world revolves around incentives and punishment. From a young age, kids are brought up that way. Positive and negative reinforcement are at the very core of child psychology. You can’t blame people who are well aware of the punishment awaiting them (through the form of demotions and suspension from future United games) if they’d rather go for the safe option of keeping Ferguson happy. The media who have not uttered a peep or written a single article about this for 2 decades. The FA, who runs the game in this country has allowed this situation to fester. The clubs who see no issue with having David Gill, United’s CEO, on the board of the FA, and of course, the Professional Game Match Officials Board: the people who regulate officiating in England. The person at the head of the PGMOB and who is in charge of selecting which referee gets handed which game is Mike Riley, an ex professional referee who is most famous for giving a penalty for a clear dive by Wayne Rooney in the 2004 Man United 2-0 win against Arsenal which ended the Gunners 49 game unbeaten streak. Riley was accused of pro United favouritism throughout his career. For younger readers, he’s my generation’s Howard Webb. According to the Guardian’s research, which goes to back to the beginning of the 1997-98 season until 2004, “Riley refereed 23 United games in all competitions and gave 12 penalties for United in that time, but only three against them. And he has sent off five of United’s opponents. At Old Trafford, Riley’s record is weighted even more heavily in favour of United: He gave 10 penalties in the 14 games he officiated to the home side, Manchester United.” Riley’s bias was so suspected than when was awarded the Everton v Man Utd FA Cup semi final to officiate in 2009, David Moyes actually called for an investigation on whether Riley was a United supporter. This is the man who now decides which premier league games to assign to referees.
Add that to everything we’ve found out: the year long waits for referees who take charge of United losses to be given another United game to officiate, the penalties that are given to United in said referees next United games, the punishment for making mistakes that cost United points (Atkinson’s month long suspension from premier league games, Jones’ 1 month suspension from ALL PROFESSIONAL games), the comments from ex referee Jeff Winter (see my previous post), the fact that 18% of Howard Webb’s career penalties have gone to Manchester United, the retirement of Alan Wiley after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson and, of course, the presence of David Gill inside the FA and surely there’s enough there for some investigative journalist in the UK to actually look more into this. Why did Foy’s errors on Saturday lead to his demotion to the lowest professional league in England while Webb’s and Jones’ mistakes didn’t cost them? If only to put the millions of football fans’ across the world’s minds at ease. Because we could all be wrong and all of this may just be a set of freakish coincidences. Maybe English football is squeaky clean like they make us believe and the referee selection process is completely unbiased. Maybe we’re just paranoid… Or maybe not…
Chris Foy failed to give Manchester United a penalty in their 3-2 loss to Spurs last month. The PGMOB did not hand Foy a Premier League game to referee the next weekend: instead, officiated in League 2 for the first time in more than 4 years. Mike Jones meanwhile, who missed a blatant penalty on Luis Suarez at Norwich the same weekend, took charge of West Brom v QPR in the Premier League. Finally, Howard Webb (who sent off Jordi Gomez on Saturday; a red card today rescinded by the FA) took charge of Newcastle’s home game against Manchester United.
Why did Foy’s errors on last month lead to his demotion to the lowest professional league in England while Webb’s and Jones’ mistakes didn’t cost them?
I guess we all know the answer to that question…"

The Dim in Beirut
Exposing Corruption and Influence Peddling in the English game along with analysis on Liverpool FC and football in general
28/10/2012
The Whole World's Watching

"It’s amazing how us “paranoids” keep managing to predict the future isn’t it? Today, Manchester United beat Chelsea 3-2 at Stamford Bridge. Not a single football fan across the world is talking about anything other than Mark Clattenburg’s refereeing performance in that game. Readers of this blog will not have been surprised by the referee’s performance. They will have known exactly what to expect during that game today and even the most sceptical will surely be scratching their heads. Clattenburg had gone 38 games without refereeing Manchester United. His previous United game was the 6-1 thrashing by rivals Man City at Old Trafford. He sent Johnny Evans off in a match that Alex Ferguson described as “the most embarrassing defeat of my career”. For 38 games, Clattenburg was not handed a single United game to referee. Not a single league game, not a single cup game. That stat alone tells us nothing: he’s also gone a while without officiating Arsenal or Liverpool games. His performance today, however, tells us a great deal. Clattenburg has now become the latest in an ever lengthening line of referees who have officiated a United loss, gone a long time without reffing them, then on their return give game changing decisions to Alex Ferguson’s side. Like Chris Foy, who took charge of a United defeat and went a year without reffing United in the league. During that time, Foy reffed 2 United cup games, giving them penalties in both and sending off Vincent Kompany in one.
Like Phil Dowd, who reffed a United loss, then gave them a penalty in the next game he took charge of which earned United a draw and their 19th league title.
Like Mike Jones, who after falsely awarding Demba Ba a penalty at Old Trafford, gave United 2 penalties in 2-0 home win against Stoke during his subsequent visit to Old Trafford. The list is neverending.
I’m not going to keep repeating myself, all that info is in my 3 previous articles. Halsey, Atkinson, Wiley, Oliver, Webb… There’s enough there to at least make you think Man United are the world champions of coincidences. The point is this:
Clattenburg sends a United player off in an embarrassing loss at home, and gets a 38 game absence from United games. Is there anyone out there who believes that after his performance at Stanford Bridge, he’ll go 38 games without taking charge of United again? Anyone? United fans keep commenting on these articles, telling people that all of this is just a coincidence. They cite examples at other clubs, in other eras. I ask United fans the following: Was today yet another coincidence? And if so, aren’t you just a tiny bit suspicious about the fact that these coincidences keep piling up?
Some people have asked why, when the facts are so blatant and suspicions so widely held by the entire global premier league fan base, is nothing ever done? England is a country where the powerful protect the powerful. It’s a country where innocent people (the Guilford 4 and Birmingham 6) were put in jail for decades by authorities who knew they were innocent of the crimes they were convicted of. England is a country where the truth is withheld from the general population, until the people implicated either die or retire. The truth about Hillsborough was known 1 year after the event. It’s only 23 years later that the media has spread the information to the wider population. During that time, some key people that could have been convicted passed away. They were protected by other people in power. Meanwhile, the reputations of the deceased were tarnished, their deaths used as banter at football grounds by people either wholly let down by their country’s media or just spiteful. For decades, Jimmy Savile was allowed to molest children and was protected by people in power. From the BBC, to the police, to the media and to God knows who else… They all played a role in making sure Savile was able to prey on his victims in peace. They made sure the truth would only come out after his death.
That’s England. It’s extremely similar to every single other country on earth. The politically powerful protect the politically powerful everywhere in the world. The media help facilitate this arrangement. Police forces, politicians, big business, the press and other powerful people constantly work together in mutually beneficial arrangements. Unlike other world citizens though, the English are sometimes shocked to discover this fact. All these instances I mentioned above came as a shock to the general population- whose trust in their institutions is unwavering. The powerful protect the powerful. It’s a fact of life. It’s how Lance Armstrong managed to cheat for so long without investigations. His accusers were called paranoid too and bullied too. Remind you of anyone? Power talks. There are very few men in the world more powerful than Rupert Murdoch, the man who finances the global juggernaut that is the premier league through Sky Tv. No man stands more to lose from any investigation into corruption in his cash cow and no newspapers in England are as powerful as his disgusting “The Sun”.
No man in football is more politically powerful than Alex Ferguson. This is a man who was awarded a knighthood on the recommendation of Tony Blair- who Ferguson helped during his 1997 campaign for prime minister. Read Alastair Campbell’s diaries. It’s all there. Ferguson was constantly on the phone to Campbell asking what he could do to help. As a reward, Ferguson got knighted by the Queen of England. That was 13 years ago. God knows what other contacts he’s made during that time. And he didn't even have someone in the FA then.
No football club CEO in England is more powerful than Manchester United’s David Gill, who has now been promoted to VICE CHAIRMAN of the FA who also wants him as their member on Uefa’s executive committee.
And no man has more power in assigning and demoting referees than Mike Riley, the head of the PGMOB. A man whose allegiances to Man United were so suspect that David Moyes wanted him investigated. A man who was appointed a few months after Ferguson heavily criticized his predecessor.
Power protects power. But nothing will ever be done. This is England.
We all have to wait until Ferguson retires, (or passes away) a seismic change happens in the FA and PGMOB or by miracle certain journalists grow some balls and actually delve right into this. Until then expect many more Mark Clattenburgs. Expect the game you love, the club you adore and the league you follow to forever be at the mercy of backroom deals, strange referee selections and decisions. Expect many more weekends spent scratching your head, wondering just how more coincidences it will take for people to wake up.
The whole world’s watching… "

Knew I wasnt paranoid!

[Reg]

This is a really tough question.

I dont want to think what will happen if its found that LFC knew the risks and didnt act

Wwwwwwwwwwwwoooooooo where do you come into the story?

Peter Robinson made our concerns known about Heysel well before the game and was ignored.

Beam me up, close the thread, lets start slagging Rafa.

ffffffffffffs.................. 

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

united get a lot of decisions go their way but all big clubs do, we were the same in the 70`s and 80`s, opposing fans back then used to harp on all the time about all the pens we were awarded at the kop end and evertonians in particular still go on to this day about some of the big calls that went our way in 70`s derby games.
for instance everton blatantly got ripped off in the 77 F.A  cup semi final against us and that was back in the day when F.A cup finals were like CL finals these days.
i watch a bit of the spanish footy on sky and some of the decisions that go real madrid and barcelona`s way are shocking as well.
it`s easy to start asking why is david gill on the board of the F.A but the fella before him was noel white, white was there for years and he was on the board here at liverpool (although i do seem to remember united moaning about his appointment to the F.A)
as much as i cant stand the man lets not forget that ferguson has always been a supporter of the labour party, ferguson was a trade union convener in the glasgow shipyards in the 60`s which is about as left wing and tough an environment as you can get.
he`s not one of these celebrities who jumped on the labour bandwagon when tony blair started all this cool britania sh*te, ferguson was heavily involved in the trade union movement before the beatles made it big.
he probably does throw his weight around behind the scene`s in english football but i`m not convinced there`s any organised conspiracy or corruption or any of that rubbish.
a lot went our way when we were top dogs and i`d like to think any luck (pens etc) we got we earned by being so attack minded and i bet united fans feel the same these days.
at the end of the day the main reason united have done so well over the past 20 years is that they have had great sides.

[Kenny Kan]

So Fergie, is a labour man, left wing and a union convener. F.uck it, he must be a good guy then, problem solved.

[Thommo's perm]

united get a lot of decisions go their way but all big clubs do, we were the same in the 70`s and 80`s, opposing fans back then used to harp on all the time about all the pens we were awarded at the kop end and evertonians in particular still go on to this day about some of the big calls that went our way in 70`s derby games.
for instance everton blatantly got ripped off in the 77 F.A  cup semi final against us and that was back in the day when F.A cup finals were like CL finals these days.
i watch a bit of the spanish footy on sky and some of the decisions that go real madrid and barcelona`s way are shocking as well.
it`s easy to start asking why is david gill on the board of the F.A but the fella before him was noel white, white was there for years and he was on the board here at liverpool (although i do seem to remember united moaning about his appointment to the F.A)
as much as i cant stand the man lets not forget that ferguson has always been a supporter of the labour party, ferguson was a trade union convener in the glasgow shipyards in the 60`s which is about as left wing and tough an environment as you can get.
he`s not one of these celebrities who jumped on the labour bandwagon when tony blair started all this cool britania sh*te, ferguson was heavily involved in the trade union movement before the beatles made it big.
he probably does throw his weight around behind the scene`s in english football but i`m not convinced there`s any organised conspiracy or corruption or any of that rubbish.
a lot went our way when we were top dogs and i`d like to think any luck (pens etc) we got we earned by being so attack minded and i bet united fans feel the same these days.
at the end of the day the main reason united have done so well over the past 20 years is that they have had great sides.

Fu*king hell mate, if I didnt know any better I'd think you'd lost yer marbles, or was a closet manc!
The man is an absolute cu'nt who has bullied and intimidated his way through english football for 25 years. I wont deny that he has, from time to time had some good sides, and even some great players. But anyone who follows football knows that he has not won his trophies purely on merit, like we have. He has put the sh'its up the FA, the media and as the article points out very clearly, the referees.
Every season bar none, he and/or his team are involved in a scandal or controversy. Last season being the evra disgrace, which knocked us for 6 and virtually derailed us. Read the piece properly and tell me who else holds such sway over the people who make decisions in matches? Who else chooses which referees are allowed to officiate their teams games because I'm fu'cked if I know anyone else who can dictate like that purple nosed tw@t. He is the most successful manager of the premiere league era, no doubt, but that doesnt make him an honourable person.
An arrogant, surly, offensive, nasty, ignorant, sly, hypocritical pr'ick and anyone who admires him doesnt know the meaning of honour or fairness