Liverpool FC Forum

[Bam]

Pre season if we have had the chance to get a good run in Europe (which is usual) and finish within a few points of the leaders then we all would have taken that. What gets people blood boiling is the manner in which we have ended up. Im talking about the dropped points at home, because quite frankly we could have really won the league this year.

But come end of season I know Rafa will strengthen the team a lot more and we will be even stronger next year.

I do agree with that to an extent especially about dropping points at home. But at the end of the day I maintained to myself if we made a challenge of it this year I would be happy.

When was the last time we genuinely challenged for the league 89/90 (and we won it).

When was the last time Man U and us geniunley challenged for the league .... 1977 I think.

It has been an improved camapign this year, the real first in Rafa's reign. Like yous said Rafa should improve on personel in the summer toi make us stronger. The flip side of that though is, I feel Man.U, Chelsea and possibly Aresnal will make it much more harder for us to gain an early season lead on our rivals, plus they will strengthen.

[RobinHood6969]

Pre season if we have had the chance to get a good run in Europe (which is usual) and finish within a few points of the leaders then we all would have taken that. What gets people blood boiling is the manner in which we have ended up. Im talking about the dropped points at home, because quite frankly we could have really won the league this year.

But come end of season I know Rafa will strengthen the team a lot more and we will be even stronger next year.

I do agree with that to an extent especially about dropping points at home. But at the end of the day I maintained to myself if we made a challenge of it this year I would be happy.

When was the last time we genuinely challenged for the league 89/90 (and we won it).

When was the last time Man U and us geniunley challenged for the league .... 1977 I think.

It has been an improved camapign this year, the real first in Rafa's reign. Like yous said Rafa should improve on personel in the summer toi make us stronger. The flip side of that though is, I feel Man.U, Chelsea and possibly Aresnal will make it much more harder for us to gain an early season lead on our rivals, plus they will strengthen.

But we would strengthen as well Bam, Thats where the key lies. On how we improve our team

[NewportLad]

2nd place and above is great.

Any domestic/european semi-final?

If we can nab a trophy it would be good.

Btw..I'm in a dilemma you see, I've been a Liverpool fan since I was young. But being from South Wales I think it's a bit plastic? I have never been to Anfield, nearly went once but overslept. I think I should be supporting local teams because of all the talk on their forums about how much they hate plastic fans. I love LFC and I'm proud of it but I've never seen them nor am I very updated on recent news and players etc.

Does that make me a plastic fan/wooly?

What should I do?

[agoodmentality]

2nd place and above is great.

Any domestic/european semi-final?

If we can nab a trophy it would be good.

Btw..I'm in a dilemma you see, I've been a Liverpool fan since I was young. But being from South Wales I think it's a bit plastic? I have never been to Anfield, nearly went once but overslept. I think I should be supporting local teams because of all the talk on their forums about how much they hate plastic fans. I love LFC and I'm proud of it but I've never seen them nor am I very updated on recent news and players etc.

Does that make me a plastic fan/wooly?

What should I do?

jog on

[NewportLad]

Cheers. 

[RedBlood]

I dont agree with this Rafa needs 2 win the league our hes out rubbish its the best & hardest league in the world & id say were in the top 5 teams in the world right now so i wouldnt swap Rafa 4 any1

United Chelsea & Arsenal will all strenghin next year aswell

As long as were in the title race 2 the very end & we remain strong in the Champions League  & i see an improvement in the squad then i will be happy (not estatic) but i wont see the point in getting a manager

If you improve every year then whats the point

i agree aslong as we are competing well in the league and champions league ill be happy

stability is what we need and sacking rafa would be a massive step back, to say win the league or fu.ck off is ridiculous espeacially when your competing with the best teams in the world most of whitch have a massive advantage in the tranfer market

the only way i would call for a change in managment is if we slipped back into finnsihing 20points off top

i believe rafa and this squad can bring in more silverwere if not this season in seasons to come with a few improvements

[heimdall]

I dont agree with this Rafa needs 2 win the league our hes out rubbish its the best & hardest league in the world & id say were in the top 5 teams in the world right now so i wouldnt swap Rafa 4 any1

United Chelsea & Arsenal will all strenghin next year aswell

As long as were in the title race 2 the very end & we remain strong in the Champions League  & i see an improvement in the squad then i will be happy (not estatic) but i wont see the point in getting a manager

If you improve every year then whats the point

i agree aslong as we are competing well in the league and champions league ill be happy

stability is what we need and sacking rafa would be a massive step back, to say win the league or fu.ck off is ridiculous espeacially when your competing with the best teams in the world most of whitch have a massive advantage in the tranfer market

the only way i would call for a change in managment is if we slipped back into finnsihing 20points off top

i believe rafa and this squad can bring in more silverwere if not this season in seasons to come with a few improvements

OK I'm not going to jump downRafa's neck although I was hugely annoyed with him last night but at what point will your faith with him diminish, will it be in 5 years time when we still haven't won the league becuase that is what I fear happening.

Rafa to me seems to be a fantastic pre match manager in terms of setting up his team etc but doesn't seem capable of finding a plan B or changing things in the middle of the match if things are not working out like yesterday, and that is what separates the good managers from the greats in my opinion.

[GYBS]

twice this year we have gon down against the mancs and come back to win ? how many times have we come from behind and won games this year ? as you say rafa has no plan b ? yossi was brought on by rafa at weekend and scored the winner ?

[Rockthekop]

If we do fail to win the league this season considering the fantastic position we were in, the pressure on Rafa to win the title next season will be immense.  Some may well say that we didn't expect to win it this season anyway, just as long as we 'challenged' for the title.  So it's ok that we squandered a fantastic opportunity, our best chance in years?

He has been given a lucrative contact (fook me he harped on about it enough), will have got rid of Parry, will have money to spend and will have no excuses.  He has to bring in some real quality, Riera and Kuyt for example are half decent but neither are top quality nor would you expect them to be for the money spent. 

Rafa has done very well improving the squad (in some areas at least) but he STILL hasn't addressed the serious lack of quality in the wide areas. This summer is crucial for Rafa, he has to bring in quality players, not just a player that will do a job.

[heimdall]

twice this year we have gon down against the mancs and come back to win ? how many times have we come from behind and won games this year ? as you say rafa has no plan b ? yossi was brought on by rafa at weekend and scored the winner ?

That's a fair point but it's not really a plan B or change of tactics that's just a sub, a damned goos one as it goes but just a sub. I still stand by my statement.

[Bad Bob]

twice this year we have gon down against the mancs and come back to win ? how many times have we come from behind and won games this year ? as you say rafa has no plan b ? yossi was brought on by rafa at weekend and scored the winner ?

That's a fair point but it's not really a plan B or change of tactics that's just a sub, a damned goos one as it goes but just a sub. I still stand by my statement.

Why does Plan B necessitate a change of tactics or formation to be considered viable?  Surely by now we've established beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are at our most effective when Gerrard and Torres are given the freedom to spearhead the attack.  If it's not producing on the night, why not look to sub in another attacking player in one of the supporting roles as Plan B and keep the fulcrum of our attack intact?  Far too many people on here, IMO, want to see drastic changes whenever we aren't bossing a game.  Yet, time and time again we see evidence that it's the little adjustments that often produce the required results.  Bringing on Benayoun for Kuyt last weekend, for instance.  Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that the gameplan is sound (how could it not be after the evidence of the last few weeks?) but the execution is lacking on the night.

[JoeTerp]

twice this year we have gon down against the mancs and come back to win ? how many times have we come from behind and won games this year ? as you say rafa has no plan b ? yossi was brought on by rafa at weekend and scored the winner ?

That's a fair point but it's not really a plan B or change of tactics that's just a sub, a damned goos one as it goes but just a sub. I still stand by my statement.

Why does Plan B necessitate a change of tactics or formation to be considered viable?  Surely by now we've established beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are at our most effective when Gerrard and Torres are given the freedom to spearhead the attack.  If it's not producing on the night, why not look to sub in another attacking player in one of the supporting roles as Plan B and keep the fulcrum of our attack intact?  Far too many people on here, IMO, want to see drastic changes whenever we aren't bossing a game.  Yet, time and time again we see evidence that it's the little adjustments that often produce the required results.  Bringing on Benayoun for Kuyt last weekend, for instance.  Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that the gameplan is sound (how could it not be after the evidence of the last few weeks?) but the execution is lacking on the night.

but most games we are not the ones getting dominated like we were last night. It wasn't like we were just missing the cutting edge to find the back of the net.  We were getting totally outplayed.

That being said, making the team more offensive, in a drastic way, would have more likely seen us go down 5-1 than come back 3-2 given the way people were playing.

[Bad Bob]

twice this year we have gon down against the mancs and come back to win ? how many times have we come from behind and won games this year ? as you say rafa has no plan b ? yossi was brought on by rafa at weekend and scored the winner ?

That's a fair point but it's not really a plan B or change of tactics that's just a sub, a damned goos one as it goes but just a sub. I still stand by my statement.

Why does Plan B necessitate a change of tactics or formation to be considered viable?  Surely by now we've established beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are at our most effective when Gerrard and Torres are given the freedom to spearhead the attack.  If it's not producing on the night, why not look to sub in another attacking player in one of the supporting roles as Plan B and keep the fulcrum of our attack intact?  Far too many people on here, IMO, want to see drastic changes whenever we aren't bossing a game.  Yet, time and time again we see evidence that it's the little adjustments that often produce the required results.  Bringing on Benayoun for Kuyt last weekend, for instance.  Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that the gameplan is sound (how could it not be after the evidence of the last few weeks?) but the execution is lacking on the night.

but most games we are not the ones getting dominated like we were last night. It wasn't like we were just missing the cutting edge to find the back of the net.  We were getting totally outplayed.

That being said, making the team more offensive, in a drastic way, would have more likely seen us go down 5-1 than come back 3-2 given the way people were playing.

First off, mate, I'm not as sure as some on here that we were being completely bossed all over the pitch.  I think the first half was actually a pretty even affair, with both sides creating chances and scoring a goal a piece.  Yes, everyone talks about the Drogba misses but Kuyt forced a save out of Cech when through on goal and Torres had a chance not dissimiliar to Drogba's shot that blazed over.  Our performance in the second half was more dire but that's because we conceded that stupid second goal and then lost the plot in our desperation to find an equalizer.

Anyway, that's a different debate.  The question at hand is whether radical surgery was the right solution last night or not.  Personally, I don't see how it could have been.  What would we have gone to?  4-4-2 with Kuyt up alongside Torres, Benayoun in on the right and Gerrard dropping back in place of Lucas?  It might have worked or it might have put us even further under the cosh, given they had a spare man in midfield and a healthy lead to work with.  We might have been picked off on the break.  A more unorthodox solution might have been to push Stevie out to the right and bring Kuyt or Benayoun inside.  That would have forced Essien to make a decision--would he follow Stevie out wide and leave space in the middle or would he protect that zone and give Gerrard more opportunity to get on the ball?  I would have liked to see a bit more of that but notice how it doesn't require a massive tactical or formational readjustment.  In fact, Stevie and Kuyt/Yossi can pretty much decide to give it a go 'on the fly' and see what happens.  That's what I mean about subtle adjustments rather than the radical rejigging that some suggest we need in games like this.

[heimdall]

twice this year we have gon down against the mancs and come back to win ? how many times have we come from behind and won games this year ? as you say rafa has no plan b ? yossi was brought on by rafa at weekend and scored the winner ?

That's a fair point but it's not really a plan B or change of tactics that's just a sub, a damned goos one as it goes but just a sub. I still stand by my statement.

Why does Plan B necessitate a change of tactics or formation to be considered viable?  Surely by now we've established beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are at our most effective when Gerrard and Torres are given the freedom to spearhead the attack.  If it's not producing on the night, why not look to sub in another attacking player in one of the supporting roles as Plan B and keep the fulcrum of our attack intact?  Far too many people on here, IMO, want to see drastic changes whenever we aren't bossing a game.  Yet, time and time again we see evidence that it's the little adjustments that often produce the required results.  Bringing on Benayoun for Kuyt last weekend, for instance.  Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that the gameplan is sound (how could it not be after the evidence of the last few weeks?) but the execution is lacking on the night.

Again a fair point Bad Bob but yesterday it just wasn't working and it wasn't a minor tweak needed but a change in formation maybe or something different. Not saying that would have worked but it would have been something to make Guus think. As it was we continued playing into Chelsea's hands. I know that no team has a divine right to win every game and every now and again you have to accept a defeat but yesterday I thought that Rafa could have tried a few things as we were getting murdered, especially in the second half, it could easily have been a much bigger score line to Chelsea.

[Madmax]

Next season will be way more tough than this season and i could see the top four challenging for the title this time round next year. Arsenal will be stronger than ever and so will the others. The way he have challenged this season will give rafa ideas of how to surpass this season and do even better next.. Just hope we buy the right players!!!
Anyhow targets for next season would be to challenge for the prem again obviously and win it... Would love to win the FA cup.. AS for champs league go as far as we could..