What is good enough for next season?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

What is good enough for next season?

Premiership Champions
32
31%
2nd place (minimum)
14
13%
3rd place (minimum)
14
13%
4th place - if we win a trophy as well
3
3%
Within 2-4 points of the Champions regardless of position
15
14%
Within 5-7 points of the Champions regardless of position
20
19%
Other
6
6%
 
Total votes : 104

Postby Owzat » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:03 pm

burjennio wrote:LFC only lost 4 games last season in the PL, and 2 to the champions at that.


Man Utd lost FIVE games and won the title by ELEVEN points so how exactly does your point have any relevance? The problem wasn't losing, it was a lack of wins. I've long believed you need to win 27+ games to win the title and the mancs won exactly 27. The problem wasn't defeats, it was draws :-

Home records 2007/8

Man Utd P19 W17 D1 L1 F47 A7 PTS 52
Liverpool P19 W12 D6 L1 F43 A13 PTS 42

So there is explained simply all but one of the 11 points difference, too many draws at home. Only two of those draws were against sides that finished above us so of games against the teams that finished below us we won only 3/4 at home

And of course we dropped three points at Reading and four against brum all told so seven against relegated sides

burjennio wrote:The reds hit a sticky patch mid season which caused a loss of momentum in the title race, which could easily be blamed on the politics with the owners and the manager.


That is an all too convenient smokescreen, but you are right in regards it is "easily blamed on the politics with the owners and the manager". Funny that any wins were in spite of that, it also doesn't quite tally with your previous comment about losing only four games which is less than we lost in 2005/6 when we managed 82 points.

What really cost Liverpool was careless defending and lack of goals in home draws against spudz, villa, Wigan and brum. And as much as the boardroom shenanigans is claimed to be a factor, I believe stupid defeat at home to Marseille and subsequent CL distractions also cost Liverpool. It lead to team tinkering, only in the last third of the season did we see an effective formation and a bit of consistency

CL Timeline

Liverpool 0-1 Marseille : Left Liverpool with one point out of six in the Champions League, Liverpool were then P7 W4 D3 L0 PTS 15 in the Premiership. That was good but the draws were already a worry

Besiktas 2-1 Liverpool : Left Liverpool needing to win the last three games, that put pressure on the manager and team to balance league and Champions League. Liverpool had added four more league points to be P9 W5 D4 L0 PTS 19. Still right up there but the draws still a worry, three at home already with a fourth the very next game at home to Arsenal.

By the time Liverpool lost their first league game to Reading they'd drawn another couple and won three (scoring nine goals) to be P14 W8 D6 L0 PTS 30. So into December Liverpool were still well in the title race, it wasn't defeats or boardroom shenanigans hampering them at this point, but sloppy draws.

In stark contrast our Premiership run-in saw us win 10 of the last 13 games scoring 27 goals in the process

burjennio wrote:If the club pulls together in the right direction this season the squad, with 1 or 2 additions in key areas is pretty close to giving the rest a real run for there money on all fronts. top 2 finish for me and a trophy would be a successful season.


To me we need to sign key players in key positions, so far we've added players who on face value don't add a lot of strength to the side. Degen and Cavalieri may well become squad players and add to them Dossena at £7m and we've already spent £10m on not a lot to enhance our title bid. Another £18m on a CM we don't need and what you've said and what we've done won't tally, I agree in principle although I think trophies and cup runs can be distractions.
Last edited by Owzat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Effes » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:32 pm

Owzat wrote:
burjennio wrote:LFC only lost 4 games last season in the PL, and 2 to the champions at that.


Man Utd lost FIVE games and won the title by ELEVEN points so how exactly does your point have any relevance? The problem wasn't losing, it was a lack of wins. I've long believed you need to win 27+ games to win the title and the mancs won exactly 27. The problem wasn't defeats, it was draws :-

Home records 2007/8

Man Utd P19 W17 D1 L1 F47 A7 PTS 52
Liverpool P19 W12 D6 L1 F43 A13 PTS 42

So there is explained simply all but one of the 11 points difference, too many draws at home. Only two of those draws were against sides that finished above us so of games against the teams that finished below us we won only 3/4 at home

And of course we dropped three points at Reading and four against brum all told so seven against relegated sides

burjennio wrote:The reds hit a sticky patch mid season which caused a loss of momentum in the title race, which could easily be blamed on the politics with the owners and the manager.


That is an all too convenient smokescreen, but you are right in regards it is "easily blamed on the politics with the owners and the manager". Funny that any wins were in spite of that, it also doesn't quite tally with your previous comment about losing only four games which is less than we lost in 2005/6 when we managed 82 points.

What really cost Liverpool was careless defending and lack of goals in home draws against spudz, villa, Wigan and brum. And as much as the boardroom shenanigans is claimed to be a factor, I believe stupid defeat at home to Marseille and subsequent CL distractions also cost Liverpool. It lead to team tinkering, only in the last third of the season did we see an effective formation and a bit of consistency

CL Timeline

Liverpool 0-1 Marseille : Left Liverpool with one point out of six in the Champions League, Liverpool were then P7 W4 D3 L0 PTS 15 in the Premiership. That was good but the draws were already a worry

Besiktas 2-1 Liverpool : Left Liverpool needing to win the last three games, that put pressure on the manager and team to balance league and Champions League. Liverpool had added four more league points to be P9 W5 D4 L0 PTS 19. Still right up there but the draws still a worry, three at home already with a fourth the very next game at home to Arsenal.

By the time Liverpool lost their first league game to Reading they'd drawn another couple and won three (scoring nine goals) to be P14 W8 D6 L0 PTS 30. So into December Liverpool were still well in the title race, it wasn't defeats or boardroom shenanigans hampering them at this point, but sloppy draws.

In stark contrast our Premiership run-in saw us win 10 of the last 13 games scoring 27 goals in the process

burjennio wrote:If the club pulls together in the right direction this season the squad, with 1 or 2 additions in key areas is pretty close to giving the rest a real run for there money on all fronts. top 2 finish for me and a trophy would be a successful season.


To me we need to sign key players in key positions, so far we've added players who on face value don't add a lot of strength to the side. Degen and Cavalieri may well become squad players and add to them Dossena at £7m and we've already spent £10m on not a lot to enhance our title bid. Another £18m on a CM we don't need and what you've said and what we've done won't tally, I agree in principle although I think trophies and cup runs can be distractions.

Well written post, makes good points and is concise with minimal waffle. (Take note BigMick  :D )

Good post Owzat.
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Postby bigmick » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:20 pm

Effes wrote:
Owzat wrote:
burjennio wrote:LFC only lost 4 games last season in the PL, and 2 to the champions at that.


Man Utd lost FIVE games and won the title by ELEVEN points so how exactly does your point have any relevance? The problem wasn't losing, it was a lack of wins. I've long believed you need to win 27+ games to win the title and the mancs won exactly 27. The problem wasn't defeats, it was draws :-

Home records 2007/8

Man Utd P19 W17 D1 L1 F47 A7 PTS 52
Liverpool P19 W12 D6 L1 F43 A13 PTS 42

So there is explained simply all but one of the 11 points difference, too many draws at home. Only two of those draws were against sides that finished above us so of games against the teams that finished below us we won only 3/4 at home

And of course we dropped three points at Reading and four against brum all told so seven against relegated sides

burjennio wrote:The reds hit a sticky patch mid season which caused a loss of momentum in the title race, which could easily be blamed on the politics with the owners and the manager.


That is an all too convenient smokescreen, but you are right in regards it is "easily blamed on the politics with the owners and the manager". Funny that any wins were in spite of that, it also doesn't quite tally with your previous comment about losing only four games which is less than we lost in 2005/6 when we managed 82 points.

What really cost Liverpool was careless defending and lack of goals in home draws against spudz, villa, Wigan and brum. And as much as the boardroom shenanigans is claimed to be a factor, I believe stupid defeat at home to Marseille and subsequent CL distractions also cost Liverpool. It lead to team tinkering, only in the last third of the season did we see an effective formation and a bit of consistency

CL Timeline

Liverpool 0-1 Marseille : Left Liverpool with one point out of six in the Champions League, Liverpool were then P7 W4 D3 L0 PTS 15 in the Premiership. That was good but the draws were already a worry

Besiktas 2-1 Liverpool : Left Liverpool needing to win the last three games, that put pressure on the manager and team to balance league and Champions League. Liverpool had added four more league points to be P9 W5 D4 L0 PTS 19. Still right up there but the draws still a worry, three at home already with a fourth the very next game at home to Arsenal.

By the time Liverpool lost their first league game to Reading they'd drawn another couple and won three (scoring nine goals) to be P14 W8 D6 L0 PTS 30. So into December Liverpool were still well in the title race, it wasn't defeats or boardroom shenanigans hampering them at this point, but sloppy draws.

In stark contrast our Premiership run-in saw us win 10 of the last 13 games scoring 27 goals in the process

burjennio wrote:If the club pulls together in the right direction this season the squad, with 1 or 2 additions in key areas is pretty close to giving the rest a real run for there money on all fronts. top 2 finish for me and a trophy would be a successful season.


To me we need to sign key players in key positions, so far we've added players who on face value don't add a lot of strength to the side. Degen and Cavalieri may well become squad players and add to them Dossena at £7m and we've already spent £10m on not a lot to enhance our title bid. Another £18m on a CM we don't need and what you've said and what we've done won't tally, I agree in principle although I think trophies and cup runs can be distractions.

Well written post, makes good points and is concise with minimal waffle. (Take note BigMick  :D )

Good post Owzat.

Hey!!!! I'm not having that!!!!!  :angry:  :p



Nothing wrong with a wee bit of waffle  :D
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Postby kazza » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:35 pm

bigmick wrote:Nothing wrong with a wee bit of waffle  :D

Only if you add to it maple syrup  :nod
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Postby fivecups » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:43 pm

Sorry - didn't mean to bring this topic up. I was just browsing through old threads (hungover and looking after the baby) and voted in the poll. Forgot that brings it to the top of the forum.
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Postby Sabre » Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:16 pm

Burjenio was talking quite a lot of sense in the last July

Burjennio wrote:If the club pulls together in the right direction this season the squad, with 1 or 2 additions in key areas is pretty close to giving the rest a real run for there money on all fronts. top 2 finish for me and a trophy would be a successful season.


But probably his views were dismissed as unrealistic.

:)
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Postby Effes » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:22 pm

Effes wrote:Within 5-7 points of the leaders is the MINIMUM.

Looks like my acceptance criteria was a fair judgement  :D
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Postby Sabre » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:25 pm

Effes wrote:
Effes wrote:Within 5-7 points of the leaders is the MINIMUM.

Looks like my acceptance criteria was a fair judgement  :D

So far we're very happy because we see the title possible.

But the realistic truth is, that we haven't even secured the 2nd place, not even your minimum of July.

Chelsea is 3 points away, and a lot of things can happen.

As Rafa says we have to work, work, work. :D
Last edited by Sabre on Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Zidane » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:35 pm

I honestly don't know, Chelsea will still be there, Arsenal will be better and Man U might be better.  If they sell Ronaldo to Madrid they are going to get more than one quality player in to replace him.  Now hopefully the players they sign aren't that great in the prem but they will be top players.

We need a big summer so until we get some new transfers I don't know what to expect tbh.
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Postby Effes » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:20 pm

Zidane wrote:I honestly don't know, Chelsea will still be there, Arsenal will be better and Man U might be better.  If they sell Ronaldo to Madrid they are going to get more than one quality player in to replace him.  Now hopefully the players they sign aren't that great in the prem but they will be top players.

We need a big summer so until we get some new transfers I don't know what to expect tbh.

This thread was written before this season mate - so, it's this season that is in question  :D
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Postby Effes » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:30 pm

Sabre wrote:
Effes wrote:
Effes wrote:Within 5-7 points of the leaders is the MINIMUM.

Looks like my acceptance criteria was a fair judgement  :D

So far we're very happy because we see the title possible.

But the realistic truth is, that we haven't even secured the 2nd place, not even your minimum of July.

How do you know what I said in July?

Not even I know what I said in July.
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Postby Sabre » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:40 pm

Erm, I meant June, I misread the quotebox or simply had a lapsus writing

I know because ->you<- quoted your own post!  :D
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Postby Effes » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:42 pm

OK Sabre, thought that might have been the case. :D

That result is a sickener tho :(
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Postby Rorschach26 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:57 pm

I dont agree with this Rafa needs 2 win the league our hes out rubbish its the best & hardest league in the world & id say were in the top 5 teams in the world right now so i wouldnt swap Rafa 4 any1

United Chelsea & Arsenal will all strenghin next year aswell

As long as were in the title race 2 the very end & we remain strong in the Champions League  & i see an improvement in the squad then i will be happy (not estatic) but i wont see the point in getting a manager

If you improve every year then whats the point
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Postby tubby » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:17 pm

Pre season if we have had the chance to get a good run in Europe (which is usual) and finish within a few points of the leaders then we all would have taken that. What gets people blood boiling is the manner in which we have ended up. Im talking about the dropped points at home, because quite frankly we could have really won the league this year.

But come end of season I know Rafa will strengthen the team a lot more and we will be even stronger next year.
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