Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

go to the link and u will see all Cisse's goals this season

http://www.aja.free.fr/2003-2004/videos_0304.htm

HE IS ONE OF US NOW!

[Owzat]

Don't rate O'Neill and won't until he manages a top team in a top league and achieves something

Leicester - mid-table with a modest Leicester and a couple of worthless cups.

Celtic - mickey mouse title and some relatively impressive excursions in the weak UEFA Cup having failed to cut it in the CL


Motivating mediocre players into performing above themselves as a team isn't what is required to win the Premiership. Does Wenger or Fergie do this week in, week out? No, they motivate world class players like Henry, Pires, Vieira, Campbell, Scholes, Ferdinand, Giggs, Van Diver........ And before we start comparing Fergie at Aberdeen with O'Neill at Celtic, there is no comparison. Fergie won the SPL with a much smaller club by comparison, not with one of the two big teams in scotland - let's face it, noone's done it since! (quite possibly very few did it previously). He also WON the CWC with Aberdeen and then struggled in England for a few years before cracking the winning formula by signing Schmeichel, Irwin, Cantona, Kanchelskis, Keane, Pallister et al (that's the truth, not the "Fergie's fledglings" bollox) O'Neill landed lucky by inheriting the SPL league winning formula in LARSSON, we'll see just how "good" Celtic are without him

Maybe the part of a Fergie vs O'Neill comparison would be the part where Fergie brough a whole load of mediocre players to England before working out that wouldn't work. I can see O'Neill bringing half of Celtic to Anfield and flopping just as Souness did in the early 90s Maybe he'd get it right after that - who knows. I have to agree with Stu and will add that O'Neill cannot live up to his blown out of all proportion reputation.

Benitez for manager

[big al]

Stu As you may know I was was not a fan of Martin O'Neill but last week BBC Northern Ireland showed a 30 minute biography on him. I have to say I was not only impressed I was blow away by the guy.
A) hes a smart cookie, He had a choice of Football or Law at Queens University Belfast, Walked out of the course and signed for Spurs,
B) he's a leader, not only Captained his country but Notts Forrest and was one of the very few players Cloughie allowed to talk back at him.
C) The man got balls as big a footballs, not only did he ignore the sectarian chants of the extremists in his own country he got their respect and whilst at Leicester he confronted an angry mob of 500 fans who wanted him out, He went to the fans and took the time to explain what he was trying to he got their support because he talked straight and spelt it out to them no ****** just facts that the board were hiding.
D)  He has a hunger and a passion that is unrivaled in my book, Clough dropped him in the European cup final, he wants his hands on the cup, but I really believe he wants to rub clough nose in it before he dies.  He is single minded and driven.
E) Man Motivator is how others discribe it but its not even that he has an affinity with the players, O'Neill actually sees himself as one of them, thats why he jumps about so much and wears old track tops, but he's a hard man he uses people to get what he wants and thats what he did as a player, Hes the the centre it all revolves around him.
F) He a family man, with traditional moral attitudes, he would'nt tolerate some of the idiotic behaviour of some of our old players.  That's a trait that the likes of Shanks, Ferguson, Stein, Busby and the best managers have.  Some people call it professionalism today but with O'Neill its personal
G) The guy is blatantly honest, I don't think he knows what a back door is, he admitted that he had to play such defencive formations because he did'nt have the players.
H)  He is surprisingly shy and modest, he dosent grave the limelight but he really knows how to deal with difficult press who ask silly questions.  He was asked by one of them if he'd ever thought of practising for penalty kicks in Europe, He replied " ah now there's a good idea' why did I think of that, With all my experience as a player and manager I should have thought of that"


All in all Stu what impressed me most was his desire, he wants success he wants to get his hands on the English Premiership and the European cup, He's a very clever man and I beleive he'll do it. I hope that it for us at Liverpool and not somewhere else.  O'Neill has all the charcteristics of a raw Bill Shankly I think Celtic is merely a stepping stone for him to greatness.  So This European election day my vote goes to MON

[big al]

Stu My only doubt with many of the candidates mentioned including MON is that they don't seem to have shown the ability to attract massive names.  I mean Even Houllier admitted that we need at least 3 world class players.  Money to buy is one thing but I wonder if any one of the managers mentioned could bring in the players we require in the short term.  I think there is someone who could do that, but would he leave England for Liverpool.

[Owzat]

If Houllier managed Celtic, who is to say he wouldn't win the SPL? Bottom line is Houllier managed 2, 3, 4 (x2) and 5 with Liverpool and £130m while O'Neill managed a lot worse with a lot less. Houllier managed and FA Cup and UEFA Cup more than O'Neill, again with more money. While it is fair to say O'Neill did well with a modest Leicester side and little money, it does not mean he is guaranteed to do well if he has a lot of money. His success at Celtic is largely irrelevant, comparable with Souness at Rangers. As I've said before, his CV is not of the quality I'd be looking for.

SPL title with Celtic
1 UEFA Cup final appearance
2 Worthington Cups with Leicester
4 top ten Premiership finishes with Leicester

I'd say that was the CV of someone looking to manage a team like spurts, not Liverpool FC. I think he'll end up at Nottingham Forest, just depends where he goes between now and then.

Benitez - the man for the (Liverpool) job

[JBG]

Owzat: you have never rated O' Neill and never will!

However, from what I have heard, O' Neill is not in the running for the job, so debates on O' Neill are not as relevant as they were three months ago.

I also agree on Benetiz: his record is exceptional.

Benetiz or Mourinho: either would do for me.

[Stan Laurel]

O'Neil's an good manager.

Houllier is a superb manager.

We need better otherwise we made a mistake sacking Houllier. You are what you have proven to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

O'Neil hasn't proven he's better than Houllier.

I am not going to have a go at you, mate, ok. But I can see your point about Martin O'Neill, it is your opinion and which is fair enough.

But you said about that Martin O'Neill hasn't proven he's better than Houllier.

What do you mean by that, and Celtic beat Liverpool last year in UEFA Cup.

[big al]

Sometimes there is a naivity on this forum that amazes me, Liverpool Fc is still a big job but lets face it Valencia is just as big by current standards.  Why would Benetiz want to manage Liverpool and why would Valencia let him go.  Lets get real,  O'Neill is possible because he might want back into the premiership, Mourinho could be enticed, but realistically its more likely to be someone like Strachan.  Parry can waffle about proven record but Liverpool under his executive management are no longer one of the top ten clubs in europe

[Woollyback]

JBG's right I fear, MON isn't in the frame for the job for a number of reasons particularly that he's had a bit of a barney with Rick Parry a while back.

I firmly believe, though, that he is pretty much the ideal candidate for LFC but if we can't get him then I'd be happy with Mourinho or Benitez. Both of them appear to have what it takes to play in the big league and win.

Owzat I don't think O'Neill would bring half his Celtic baggage with him. He is the ultimate pragmatist, he wouldn't bring players out of loyalty or croney-ism. If they wouldn't further his cause at a new club he wouldn't even consider them. (PS. Welcome back, stato    )

Stu, you can say that he hasn't proven himself yet at the highest level (or words to that effect) but it's a case of chicken and the egg - how does he prove himself if he doesn't get the opportunity? It's also been mentioned often enough about how Shanks & Paisley didn't have a proven record for you to have taken the point by now.

The thing that persuades me most about MON, though, is summed up perfectly by Big Al. It's not by statistics or trophies or transfer records. Not by tactics or personnel. It's the man's sheer drive and will to win. Some might disagree but I can't ever remember seeing such single-minded ambition in a man, but also backed up with the intellect and savvy to put it all into practice.

If we pass up the opportunity to bring him in he'll end up at Manure and make those b*stards invincible once again.

[fivecups]

go to the link and u will see all Cisse's goals this season

http://www.aja.free.fr/2003-2004/videos_0304.htm

HE IS ONE OF US NOW!

Nice link

There is a definite apathy towards the arrival of Cisse. Some compare him to Diouf - why is that?

Download his goals; sing, chant, jump and dance that he's coming to Anfield - he looks pretty freakin exciting to me!

[greenred]

Stu As you may know I was was not a fan of Martin O'Neill but last week BBC Northern Ireland showed a 30 minute biography on him. I have to say I was not only impressed I was blow away by the guy.
A) hes a smart cookie, He had a choice of Football or Law at Queens University Belfast, Walked out of the course and signed for Spurs,
B) he's a leader, not only Captained his country but Notts Forrest and was one of the very few players Cloughie allowed to talk back at him.
C) The man got balls as big a footballs, not only did he ignore the sectarian chants of the extremists in his own country he got their respect and whilst at Leicester he confronted an angry mob of 500 fans who wanted him out, He went to the fans and took the time to explain what he was trying to he got their support because he talked straight and spelt it out to them no ****** just facts that the board were hiding.
D)  He has a hunger and a passion that is unrivaled in my book, Clough dropped him in the European cup final, he wants his hands on the cup, but I really believe he wants to rub clough nose in it before he dies.  He is single minded and driven.
E) Man Motivator is how others discribe it but its not even that he has an affinity with the players, O'Neill actually sees himself as one of them, thats why he jumps about so much and wears old track tops, but he's a hard man he uses people to get what he wants and thats what he did as a player, Hes the the centre it all revolves around him.
F) He a family man, with traditional moral attitudes, he would'nt tolerate some of the idiotic behaviour of some of our old players.  That's a trait that the likes of Shanks, Ferguson, Stein, Busby and the best managers have.  Some people call it professionalism today but with O'Neill its personal
G) The guy is blatantly honest, I don't think he knows what a back door is, he admitted that he had to play such defencive formations because he did'nt have the players.
H)  He is surprisingly shy and modest, he dosent grave the limelight but he really knows how to deal with difficult press who ask silly questions.  He was asked by one of them if he'd ever thought of practising for penalty kicks in Europe, He replied " ah now there's a good idea' why did I think of that, With all my experience as a player and manager I should have thought of that"


All in all Stu what impressed me most was his desire, he wants success he wants to get his hands on the English Premiership and the European cup, He's a very clever man and I beleive he'll do it. I hope that it for us at Liverpool and not somewhere else.  O'Neill has all the charcteristics of a raw Bill Shankly I think Celtic is merely a stepping stone for him to greatness.  So This European election day my vote goes to MON

Absolutely brilliant dissertation on O`Neill there Al.You`ve been missed around here boy

[115-1073096938]

Look.

My arguement is simple.

I don't want potentially good players brought in. I want class.

Quality players that will definately walk into the first 11 and improve it. I don't want players that may or may not improve it in a few years.

I want the same with the management. What is the point in sacking a superb manager, to replace him with a good one who is in some peoples minds "potentially world class". What if does a Traore and doesn't fulfill that potential?

We'd be taking another step backwards to two forwards and that isn't acceptable. This club has to go forwards now, not side ways, not backwards. We sacked a very very good manager. We now need someone who is better. Not who "could be better with the right opportunity".

Look at it this way, would you replace Hamann in the starting line up with Le Tallec now? I wouldn't, in a few years though i'd expect to be able to.

Benitez is the man. If not then Mourinho i supose would have to be second. Anyone less than that is in my mind unacceptable and a failiure by the board.

[Woollyback]

Stu, after 6 years of Houllier's "potentials" I think we're all in the same boat (for once) and want to see proven top class players coming in instead of "the next Zidane".

Manager-wise it's not so clear-cut. Management expertise isn't so clearly defined as quality in a player. Yes Benitez looks like a fantastic option, as does Mourinho but for some of us MON has that certain "je ne sais quois" that puts him above the rest. And no, I don't mean he's got Thierry Henry's Renault Clio.

Either way I don't think he's in the frame but he should be.

[JBG]

Stu, your definition of "superb" is quite different from everybody elses.

I see nothing, absolutely nothing, in Gerard Houllier's career that would warrant the superlative monikcer of "superb".

He won a league championship in France (very good achievement) and had decent success there too with Lens that could be equated to the achievements of Gordon Strachen, Alan Curbishley or Sam Allerdyce in England.

He had a poor time in charge of France before recieving huge plaudits for a somewhat vague achievement of " helping to establish" (whatever that means) the French youth academy at Clairefontaine. Whatever achievements he had at Clairefontaine were at a technical or sports administrative level, not management of a senior football team.

He then had three very good (but not brilliant) years at Liverpool, followed by two very poor ones.

Good, yes, but not superb.

Had he been superb he would still be at Melwood now, cracking jokes with Phil Thompson about Bruno Cheyrou's recent PFA Player of the Year award whilst polishing the Premiership trophy.

Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Rafeal Benetiz, Otmar Heitzfeld: they are superb.

Houllier was and is a fairly good manager, but not superb.

[Puddlian Lane]

Don't put down the SPL. Dundee Utd neat Everton. Livingston beat Fulham, so stop dishing it. O'Neil is the man because he took (champions of the so-called mickey mouse league) and beat Europe's elite in Barca and Juve. I don't see any other English clubs doing this, so stop putting our league down!!!