Liverpool FC Forum

[Rafa D]

That young Darby lad has done his chances no harm this pre-season.

[Owzat]

What the side needs is to make more of the chances created and ideally create even more chances. We need players who can cross, score and tackle back out wide. Kuyt did that better than some give him credit for. We need goals from midfield, Kuyt, Babel, Alonso and Mascherano simply don't weigh in with enough. And we need full-backs to do a decent job, whether the current crop can do that remains to be seen.

I've been holding back these stats, for no particular reason. But now seems as good a time as any to highlight some key (league) stats :-

Liverpool Premiership Stats (04/05-07/08)

P152 W83 D35 L34 F233 A121 PTS 284 (Won 54.61%, Pts/Game 1.87)

So that's 8.5 losses per season, 6.67 if you exclude the first season. Draws are the serious concern

Draws

04/05 : 7
05/06 : 7
06/07 : 8
07/08 : 13

So we need to turn more draws into wins, more defeats into draws/wins - pretty basic logical stuff.

Wins

W1-0 : 17 (20.48%)
W2-0, 3-0 etc : 35 (42.17%)
Other : 31 (37.35%)

Won having conceded first : 8
Won, conceded, but never behind : 23

Won to nil : 52 (62.65%)
Never behind : 75 (90.36%)


Pretty good reading, scoring 198 goals (2.39/game) and conceding 34 goals (0.41/game). But then there couldn't be many bad aspects of winning anyway. The only concern is that 54.61% could be a bit higher, I calculated 27 wins is enough to be in contention for the title and that's how many the mancs managed last season. That's 71.05% and we're only managing 3/4 of that. Even if you disregard Rafa's first season it would still only be 57.89% and in his best season (25 wins) it was 65.79%

Draws

D0-0 : 15 (42.86%)
D1-1 : 12 (34.29%)
D2-2 : 8 (22.86%)

Scored equaliser : 11/20
Conceded equaliser : 9/20


15 nil nils is too many, that's nearly 10%, and that we draw nearly 1 in 4 games in the league is pretty bad. If you take say nine games we would have a record of P9 W5 D2 L2 and that's too many draws and defeats, it should read something like P9 W7 D1 L1 which is title form.

Losses

L0-1 : 16 (47.06%)
L0-1, 0-2 etc : 11 (32.35%)
Other : 7 (20.59%)

Scored first and lost : 1
Equalised and lost : 4
Conceded, lost but scored : 2

Lost and failed to score : 27 (79.41%)

Losing is bad enough, but in around 4/5 of our losses we don't even score. So when we win or draw we keep a clean sheet 67 games out of 152 (44.08%), but we fail to score in 42 games out of 152 (27.63%) So basically you can expect us to fail to score in 1/4 of our games.


So everything points towards scoring more, reduce the nil nils, increase the chances of winning what have resulted in score draws and giving us a shot in games we've lost without scoring.

I'm sure some of you may find those stats interesting, if you don't then I don't care - don't read them, ignore them, but don't whinge ffs. They carry more information in them than most of you post in a week

[stmichael]

for me we desperately need a top class left sided midfielder. at the moment i just can't see who's going to start there against sunderland, especially with babel away at the olympics. maybe when barry signs, he'll play there for a few games. i suppose benayoun can play that role but he'd just keep cutting inside. aurelio isn't creative enough. gerrard is wasted out there (see arsenal at home in the CL as an example).

[lakes10]

What the side needs is to make more of the chances created and ideally create even more chances. We need players who can cross, score and tackle back out wide. Kuyt did that better than some give him credit for. We need goals from midfield, Kuyt, Babel, Alonso and Mascherano simply don't weigh in with enough. And we need full-backs to do a decent job, whether the current crop can do that remains to be seen.

I've been holding back these stats, for no particular reason. But now seems as good a time as any to highlight some key (league) stats :-

Liverpool Premiership Stats (04/05-07/08)

P152 W83 D35 L34 F233 A121 PTS 284 (Won 54.61%, Pts/Game 1.87)

So that's 8.5 losses per season, 6.67 if you exclude the first season. Draws are the serious concern

Draws

04/05 : 7
05/06 : 7
06/07 : 8
07/08 : 13

So we need to turn more draws into wins, more defeats into draws/wins - pretty basic logical stuff.

Wins

W1-0 : 17 (20.48%)
W2-0, 3-0 etc : 35 (42.17%)
Other : 31 (37.35%)

Won having conceded first : 8
Won, conceded, but never behind : 23

Won to nil : 52 (62.65%)
Never behind : 75 (90.36%)


Pretty good reading, scoring 198 goals (2.39/game) and conceding 34 goals (0.41/game). But then there couldn't be many bad aspects of winning anyway. The only concern is that 54.61% could be a bit higher, I calculated 27 wins is enough to be in contention for the title and that's how many the mancs managed last season. That's 71.05% and we're only managing 3/4 of that. Even if you disregard Rafa's first season it would still only be 57.89% and in his best season (25 wins) it was 65.79%

Draws

D0-0 : 15 (42.86%)
D1-1 : 12 (34.29%)
D2-2 : 8 (22.86%)

Scored equaliser : 11/20
Conceded equaliser : 9/20


15 nil nils is too many, that's nearly 10%, and that we draw nearly 1 in 4 games in the league is pretty bad. If you take say nine games we would have a record of P9 W5 D2 L2 and that's too many draws and defeats, it should read something like P9 W7 D1 L1 which is title form.

Losses

L0-1 : 16 (47.06%)
L0-1, 0-2 etc : 11 (32.35%)
Other : 7 (20.59%)

Scored first and lost : 1
Equalised and lost : 4
Conceded, lost but scored : 2

Lost and failed to score : 27 (79.41%)

Losing is bad enough, but in around 4/5 of our losses we don't even score. So when we win or draw we keep a clean sheet 67 games out of 152 (44.08%), but we fail to score in 42 games out of 152 (27.63%) So basically you can expect us to fail to score in 1/4 of our games.


So everything points towards scoring more, reduce the nil nils, increase the chances of winning what have resulted in score draws and giving us a shot in games we've lost without scoring.

I'm sure some of you may find those stats interesting, if you don't then I don't care - don't read them, ignore them, but don't whinge ffs. They carry more information in them than most of you post in a week

we can turn drwas into win by not resting our best players before CL games. now by saying that i am saying that Rafa got it wrong.....yes he did.

will he stop doing this?......no

[Ben1988]

the weak link defensively isnt a player, but a system, the problem isnt a lack of heading ability but a poor zonal marking that hasnt seemed to settle down. Offensively, last season it was finishing, we made chance but only torres could hit the back of the net, hopefully keane can solve this, and i have faith in kuyt aswell, he plays hard for the shirt, gives 110% and looked good end of last season and the euros. If people want creativity i would play 4 2 3 1 / 4 2 1 2 1 ! !

                       torres
   bable                               keane
                      gerrard

       mascheerano      alonso/barry

this should also give us a lot better options out on the flanks.

[Leonmc0708]

Obviously at the moment we still have weak links in the side.

I feel upfront, finally we have two strikers who can not only work as a partnership and compliment each others game but are both excellent players and goalscorers. Its a long time since I've had confidence that we have two strikers with the quality to help us win games, I finally feel we have that now and with Kuyt as backup I think we've got a good set of forward players.

In terms of midfield though we still seem top heavy in cental midfield. With Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano. Now for me, the ideal would be Gerrard back on the right side with Xabi and Mascherano in the middle, Barry signed to play on the left. The thing is, if we sign Barry, I can see him playing centrally at the expense of Xabi, which i think is silly as you would have to have worse players on the pitch to make that system work.

For me though, the real worry is the defence, not a worry we've had for a while. Finnan lacked a bit of form last season, he wasn't at his best, to be fair he wasn't poor either, just not at his usual high standards. Arbeloa isn't good enough either for me, he's a decent squad player at best, but no more. Then theres Degen, the less said the better. On the left, Dossena hasn't convinced me at all, I'm hoping he'll improve as he settles which is a distinct possiblity so on that front we'll cut him some slack, Aurelio is decent back up on that side. But in the centre I feel we're lacking alot.

Hyypia is no longer what he was but for me is still equal to the other centre halfs which shows our weakness in my opinion. I think in terms or arial ability we are a very average side with no-one from the "first eleven" being dominant in the air which is something that worries me greatly.

Our goalkeepers solid.

I think with three top additions we could become a truely outstanding side though.Personally I'd like to see a right back, a top centre half and a left winger. If money was no object I'd look to sign Woodgate (now his injury problems appear to be behind him, Richards (who would add pace, power and arial ability to the defence and Robben who if he could stay fit would provide class down the wing.               

               Torres                               
                                Keane
Robben   Mascherano   Alonso    Gerrard
Dossena Woodgate     Carragher Richards   
                      Reina

That would work for me...

Keep it realistic he says ?

[Ben1988]

I would love to see Micah Richards at our club... but that wont happen... he would cost upward of 14million i would say and i think if he leaves city it wont happen untill after this season. I would love to be proved wrong. woodgate would be unneccesary and robben is as unrealistic as kaka!

[Fo Dne]

Obviously at the moment we still have weak links in the side.I feel upfront, finally we have two strikers who can not only work as a partnership and compliment each others game but are both excellent players and goalscorers. Its a long time since I've had confidence that we have two strikers with the quality to help us win games, I finally feel we have that now and with Kuyt as backup I think we've got a good set of forward players.In terms of midfield though we still seem top heavy in cental midfield. With Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano. Now for me, the ideal would be Gerrard back on the right side with Xabi and Mascherano in the middle, Barry signed to play on the left. The thing is, if we sign Barry, I can see him playing centrally at the expense of Xabi, which i think is silly as you would have to have worse players on the pitch to make that system work.For me though, the real worry is the defence, not a worry we've had for a while. Finnan lacked a bit of form last season, he wasn't at his best, to be fair he wasn't poor either, just not at his usual high standards. Arbeloa isn't good enough either for me, he's a decent squad player at best, but no more. Then theres Degen, the less said the better. On the left, Dossena hasn't convinced me at all, I'm hoping he'll improve as he settles which is a distinct possiblity so on that front we'll cut him some slack, Aurelio is decent back up on that side. But in the centre I feel we're lacking alot. Hyypia is no longer what he was but for me is still equal to the other centre halfs which shows our weakness in my opinion. I think in terms or arial ability we are a very average side with no-one from the "first eleven" being dominant in the air which is something that worries me greatly.Our goalkeepers solid. I think with three top additions we could become a truely outstanding side though.Personally I'd like to see a right back, a top centre half and a left winger. If money was no object I'd look to sign Woodgate (now his injury problems appear to be behind him, Richards (who would add pace, power and arial ability to the defence and Robben who if he could stay fit would provide class down the wing.                              Torres                                                               KeaneRobben   Mascherano   Alonso    GerrardDossena Woodgate     Carragher Richards                         ReinaThat would work for me...

Keep it realistic he says ?

Yet another marvelous insightful post.

T0sser!

[Fo Dne]

I remember the other year having this conversation saying how we needed the other striker desperately and it never happened.

Everyone kept insisting we didn't need another striker because we had Kuyt. I was getting called for alsorts saying he wouldn't provide the goals and wasn't upto it.... I could see it then the same way I can see what we need now.

Come the end of the season, again I expect everyone to be banging on about how we need another defender or two.

This side is very weak in the air, a good right back and centre back who can win headers and head a ball are needed. Simple as that. Which is why I want Richards and Woodgate, both are exceptional players, would get into every side in the country and both are commanding in the air with pace.

[bigmick]

I'm not sure anybody is disputing that they are good players Stu, particularly IMHO Richards. A couple of people have talked of him being worth "at least" 12 or 14 mill or so though, and my read on it is he'd be worth absolute telephone numbers. The time to buy him for us has long passed, you'd be looking at comfortably in excess of 20 million in my view, a Ferdinand type of figure. Would he improve the defence? yes undoubtedly, either as full-back or centre half. The simple fact is though that we couldn't afford him, unless we made him our one target of next summer or something similar.

Woodgate is a slightly more affordable option, but given Ledley Kings injury problems I don't think Spurs would be up for letting him go cheap either. Given he's now got his injuries largely sorted, he now looks like a decent pick from eighteen months or so ago, but once again the bird has flown in my view. I do believe as well that Agger will develop into a serious centre half this season if he can recover properly from his injury.

[stmichael]

I'm not sure anybody is disputing that they are good players Stu, particularly IMHO Richards. A couple of people have talked of him being worth "at least" 12 or 14 mill or so though, and my read on it is he'd be worth absolute telephone numbers. The time to buy him for us has long passed, you'd be looking at comfortably in excess of 20 million in my view, a Ferdinand type of figure. Would he improve the defence/ yes undoubtedly, either as full-back or centre half. The simple fact is though that we couldn't afford him, unless we made him our one target of next summer or something similar.

Woodgate is a slightly more affordable option, but given Ledley Kings injury problems I don't think Spurs would be up for letting him go cheap either. Given he's now got his injuries largely sorted, he now looks like a decnt pick from eighteen months or so ago, but once again the bird has flown in my view. I do believe as well that Agger will develop into a serious centre half this season if he can recover properly from his injury.

we should have gone for mellberg on a free. he could have done a decent job for a couple of seasons. just in the same way as we should have gone for distin before he went to portsmouth.

[taff]

Ok they are great players but expensive and very hard to get. I can see your point with the defence but I dont think its as weak as you think it is.  I would have loved to have seen a flair left midfielder, but looking at last season the problem was goals and we have spent millions to rectify that

[Ben1988]

Thats what i meant... the time to sign them this season has gone.. I doubt Rafa has even thought about the need for centre backs and feels that the money we do have would be better speant on attacking options rather than 20millioin pound right backs, even though if we got him I would be elated. Fo Dne... would you rather us sign micah richards than sign barryand or silvaa?... given that buying either of them would mean selling alonso... voronin.... maybe pennant and or benayoon? given that these names (the 1s we would get money for) are all attacking players it would leave us short. This is all irrelevant anyway as we would not get micah richards if he were to become for sale as chelsea would drop in a 30million bid.

[bigmick]

This is all irrelevant anyway as we would not get micah richards if he were to become for sale as chelsea would drop in a 30million bid.

Gotta say that's the sort of fee I'd expect them to ask for him TBH.

[taff]

I cant see Man City selling as they seem to be ambitious although the owners are a bit crazy.  I dont understand Spurs as they spend loads but then also sell.  My concern with woodgate is although he seems fit he has had a stop start career and with Bowyer is a bit mental as well.

I cant slate the new signings at left and right full back as they have not played in a league game yet let alone a season.  I remeber Bruno Cheyrou looked great as a new signing till the league kicked in