Liverpool FC Forum

[A.B.]

Well for one we're without a lot of players at the moment, we can barely field a starting XI let alone fill the bench.

But even with a full strength side we're still lacking in quality in certain positions.

1. Our fullbacks - they offer nothing when the go forward, they don't overlap when they need to and thus we're short of width. I love Finnan's defending to bits but he isn't a threat when he goes forward. Riise on the other hand is the most static,lethargic,predictable player alive. Cracking shot and nothing else. If we're really attempting to challenge for the title in the near future, we need quality fullbacks. Not fullbacks who can just defend but offer something when going forward.

2. Wingers - We have Gonzalez,Pennant and Kewell. Gonzalez could prove to be a good player but so far he's not settling in. Pennant, we all know how he is and Kewell did give us balance last season but he's injured. We've been searching for proper wingers since Barnes,McManaman left.

We also need a central midfielder who is willing to sit on the bench but quality enough to do the job when needed.

People went over the top during the summer thinking that we would win the league because of our signings but we still have work to do.

That's all I want for XMAS

[alxy]

Takes time for new players to settle in, especially when you have so many coming in and some of them haven't played in the Premiership before. Personally I never thought we would win the Premiership this year. I was hoping like crazy, but that's all it was.... a crazy hope. Still, give Rafa 1-2 years more to blood his ways and system into the team. I believe we will be there.

[A.B.]

Takes time for new players to settle in, especially when you have so many coming in and some of them haven't played in the Premiership before. Personally I never thought we would win the Premiership this year. I was hoping like crazy, but that's all it was.... a crazy hope. Still, give Rafa 1-2 years more to blood his ways and system into the team. I believe we will be there.

Didn't say that we could win the Premiership however we most certainly aren't doing anything worh mentioning in the league at the moment.

Some players don't need to settle, they're just quality i.e. Kuyt.

Garcia and Alonso never had to settle if you think about it.

Sissoko is another example.

I think that Gonzalez will do much better than Pennant will and Pennant has played Premiership football all his life for the most part. But with that being said, Gonzalez hasn't looked all that great if I'm honest.

There was a lot of expectation and hype surrounded by his arrival because it took so long for him to get here which isn't fair to him.

Although I never thought that he would make an impact right away.

[account deleted by request]

Unfortunately up to now our new signings havent exactly sparkled, and our pre season optomism seems to have gradually crumbled with each poor result and performance.

Kuyt after an impressive start has continued to work hard and has managed to get the assist on our last 3 goals. Unfortunately he hasnt yet scored away, or in our last 6 games. I still have faith that he is going to be a star player for us.

Bellamy has yet to show anything like the form we know he is capable of. Hard work but no end product means he still has a huge amount to prove if he's to become a regular starter.

Gonzales,overhyped and settling in, needs more time (maybe in the reserves ) before he is judged too harshly.

Pennant, no such excuses here, I never rated him at Birmingham and nothing I have seen since has caused me to change my mind.

Aurelio looks as if he could be a decent player but I am beginning to worry about how injury prone he is. Only time will tell but I still have faith.

Personally I would be more than happy if we bought Mica Richards, Wright- Phillips and (Joey Barton/Didi Zokora/Scott Parker perm any one from three).

As the likelyhood of us having £20million to spend isnt very high, I would suggest we concentrate on trying to get the best out of the players we have, and praying that our summer signings start to show a bit more on the pitch.

This is a time for the gritting of teeth and playing with heart and passion, rather than the opening of cheque books. (Wright-Phillips would be nice though )

[Lando_Griffin]

I think you're just about spot on there, AB.

I know a lot of people cream themselves over Riise, but the fact remains that he just isn't good enough at leftback. In previous seasons, Sami has been able to come to his rescue, but as the sands of time keep falling, how much longer will our big Finn be around to wipe John's a*se?
Most of the talk of Hyypia's "decline" is utter b*llocks. He still reads the game better than any other CB in the Premiership. He still wins 100% of headers. He still NEVER misses tackles.
He's just being left exposed by his teammates.

All that has "declined" is his recovery pace and turning speed.

He has never been what you might call "sprightly", but the effects of age haven't particularly slowed him over distance - it's his sprint pace that has slowed. (For saying sake, if at 25 he could sprint 15m from a standing start in 2 seconds, now it's only about 3. Similarly, if he could do 1500m in  5 minutes 8 years ago, he could probably do it in 5 1/2 mins now. He HAS slowed, but the main difference is in his initial burst.)

What I am trying to say is that Hyypia's "dodgy form" over parts of recent seasons has actually been the fault of others dropping him in it.

As a younger player, he was able to cover his defensively dodgy fullback. Now he can't.

Here's a bold prediction for you all:

If Rafa employs a quality leftback who doesn't p*ss off into central midfield every 10 seconds, leaving Sami facing 2 flank players, and JC recovers his form sharpish, I think our Finnish friend will still be here in 5 years' time.

He is THAT good.

Regarding Finnan - he is a top defender on the ground, but if we're honest, he's in danger of becoming a weak link now the opposition have discovered his lack of height. Numerous balls are being lofted to the opposition's left winger/frontman, and Steve is really struggling.
As AB has said, he offers zero goal threat, but to be fair to him, he did assist a fair few goals last term. (Second only to Gerrard, I do believe.)

We DO need to think about a replacement within the next 12-18 months, though, as he won't be able to mop up after that bone idle waster Pennant as he approaches his mid-thirties.

Gonzalez has shown glimpses of his quality, and I feel that if given the right time and guidence, he could become a real player for us. Confidence seems to be the key with Mark.

Bellamy - court case. Need I say more? (Yes!?! - OK then...) How the funk would you do if you had an assault charge hanging over you, with the possibility of prison? - Exactly.

We know what he can do, and he works like a mule for us - give him the chance he deserves.

Kuyt - needs better service. Keeps dropping into midfield as our widemen are about as much use as a pair of wet farts in a culinder. Could be the best striker we've had since Collymore. (Who was a top, top player.)

Pennant. Oh my goodness. Now, I realise I have called for time on Bellamy. I realise that. The thing is, Craig actually looks like he would eat his own b*llocks to succeed at LFC. He tries, he really does.
This idle waste of sperm doesn't look like he could be bothered blowing his nose for us!

I won't go to town on him - just suffice to say this:

IF YOU WANT THE FANS' SUPPORT, START F*CKING TRYING YOU LAZY B*STARD!

That is all.

[account deleted by request]

I think you're just about spot on there, AB.

I know a lot of people cream themselves over Riise, but the fact remains that he just isn't good enough at leftback. In previous seasons, Sami has been able to come to his rescue, but as the sands of time keep falling, how much longer will our big Finn be around to wipe John's a*se?
Most of the talk of Hyypia's "decline" is utter b*llocks. He still reads the game better than any other CB in the Premiership. He still wins 100% of headers. He still NEVER misses tackles.
He's just being left exposed by his teammates.

All that has "declined" is his recovery pace and turning speed.

He has never been what you might call "sprightly", but the effects of age haven't particularly slowed him over distance - it's his sprint pace that has slowed. (For saying sake, if at 25 he could sprint 15m from a standing start in 2 seconds, now it's only about 3. Similarly, if he could do 1500m in  5 minutes 8 years ago, he could probably do it in 5 1/2 mins now. He HAS slowed, but the main difference is in his initial burst.)

What I am trying to say is that Hyypia's "dodgy form" over parts of recent seasons has actually been the fault of others dropping him in it.

As a younger player, he was able to cover his defensively dodgy fullback. Now he can't.

Here's a bold prediction for you all:

If Rafa employs a quality leftback who doesn't p*ss off into central midfield every 10 seconds, leaving Sami facing 2 flank players, and JC recovers his form sharpish, I think our Finnish friend will still be here in 5 years' time.

He is THAT good.

Regarding Finnan - he is a top defender on the ground, but if we're honest, he's in danger of becoming a weak link now the opposition have discovered his lack of height. Numerous balls are being lofted to the opposition's left winger/frontman, and Steve is really struggling.
As AB has said, he offers zero goal threat, but to be fair to him, he did assist a fair few goals last term. (Second only to Gerrard, I do believe.)

We DO need to think about a replacement within the next 12-18 months, though, as he won't be able to mop up after that bone idle waster Pennant as he approaches his mid-thirties.

Gonzalez has shown glimpses of his quality, and I feel that if given the right time and guidence, he could become a real player for us. Confidence seems to be the key with Mark.

Bellamy - court case. Need I say more? (Yes!?! - OK then...) How the funk would you do if you had an assault charge hanging over you, with the possibility of prison? - Exactly.

We know what he can do, and he works like a mule for us - give him the chance he deserves.

Kuyt - needs better service. Keeps dropping into midfield as our widemen are about as much use as a pair of wet farts in a culinder. Could be the best striker we've had since Collymore. (Who was a top, top player.)

Pennant. Oh my goodness. Now, I realise I have called for time on Bellamy. I realise that. The thing is, Craig actually looks like he would eat his own b*llocks to succeed at LFC. He tries, he really does.
This idle waste of sperm doesn't look like he could be bothered blowing his nose for us!

I won't go to town on him - just suffice to say this:

IF YOU WANT THE FANS' SUPPORT, START F*CKING TRYING YOU LAZY B*STARD!

That is all.

I agree with most of what you say mate, especially the last sentence.

However I still think Riise is a good player, mainly because he always gives 100% and never lets his head go down. I know he goes missing from the defence at times but thats usually because hes trying to help out our miss firing attack.

I have tried to explain in the past to people on here that it takes guts to leave your position open and move into more advanced positions, especially when other players your depending on seem to lose the ball most of the time ,(Garcia being the prime example)which then entails running 50 yards back to regain position. Riise does this game after game without complaint ,both as an attacking FB or as a RM.
       
I admit hes not the greatest defender in the world (or the team) by any means, but hes one player who you can depend on to still be working and running as hard in the last 10mins of a game when we are 2-0 behind.

He has had a lot more problems this year because he has had either Garcia or Gonzales in front of him giving the ball away. Once we start retaining possession better (Kewell), Riise wont get caught out half as much, and his foward runs wont look so kamikazi.

If Gerrard and a few others had shown the same comittment and heart as Riise we would have a few more points on the board.

The point about Sami being left facing 2 attackers when Riise p!sses off into midfield every 10 seconds is correct, but I think its down to us not retaining possession better, not because Riise isnt doing his job.

[66-1112520797]

If I'm honest I dont think us signing players in the January window especially will  be nessarcerily a good thing. Maybe one player for the right flank is needed, but to add anymore to a already relatively new squad may cause even more of a challenge in terms of bedding them in and getting to know team instructions, by christ its apparent enough with the new lads and I think we'd be better off analising the situation come the end of the season.
IMO there is nothing wrong with players like Finnan and Riise, maybe Finnan doesnt offer to much going forward but if he had a consistently good player infront of him week in week out who can go past a man and pose and offer a threat from out wide, then that debate really wouldnt be up. Finnan is an underated  excellent defender, and I wouldnt sacrifice that for a bit more creativity going forward. Riise IMO is our best LB currently, and to say he is lethargic is nonsical to me I think he does well in defending and offers more going forward than Finnan ( thats not lethagic) infact he's probably one of our harder workers and covers the ground pretty well. Again if you ask me its the chap infront of him (and his job) to get beyond his man and pose a threat.

We also need a central midfielder who is willing to sit on the bench but quality enough to do the job when needed

I'll get blasted for this and couldnt really give a to$$, but we already have one Momo ...

[Bad Bob]

For me, the problems begin and end in midfield.  The strikers we've bought are quality, I'm convinced, and just need much better service.  Kuyt, in particular, works and works for the team and is now setting up goals.  Wouldn't it be nice if a few of his teammates returned the favour?  Bellamy, too, is starved for service and has obviously had a lot of extraneous stuff to deal with.  In defence, we are complaining about the fullbacks inability to get forward a bit more than usual this season because our wide players aren't providing the ammunition.  I think Riise and Finnan are both solid and no-nonsense.  There may come a time to "upgrade" to attacking fullbacks but that needn't be our main focus at the moment.

No, our main focus needs to be sorting the midfield out.  In Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko we have central midfield largely sorted.  The trouble is out wide, and A.B.'s right to say it's been a long time since we've had a Macca or Barnes in the team.  Question marks abound on the left.  Will Gonzo raise his game and make the grade?  Will Kewell return from injury and regain his past form?  Will Garcia ever find some consistency?  Will Aurelio bed in somewhere on the left side?  Thing is, there's enough talent in that pool of players to work with for now--even if there are no clear-cut first choice players there.

It's on the right that we're still being let down big style.  Pennant was always going to be a gamble but even I didn't figure he'd be this poor.  He was supposed to offer Stevie more opportunities in CM.  Instead, his pish-poor play has encouraged Rafa to keep sticking Stevie out wide when others are fit in CM, leading to an autumn of paper speculation about Gerrard's satisfaction and Rafa's stubborness.  Well, I'm sorry, but if Pennant were up to it, we wouldn't have to read this cack.  It's becoming clear to me that he's not up to it, though, and it's affecting the entire team.  If we don't see a SIGNIFICANT improvement in his attitude and performances over the next few weeks I'd be sorely tempted to go looking for a replacement in January.  Hell, if Rafa's crafty about it, maybe we can even get a proper winger, now that the footballing world no longer knows we're searching for an RM.

[metalhead]

For me, the problems begin and end in midfield.  The strikers we've bought are quality, I'm convinced, and just need much better service.  Kuyt, in particular, works and works for the team and is now setting up goals.  Wouldn't it be nice if a few of his teammates returned the favour?  Bellamy, too, is starved for service and has obviously had a lot of extraneous stuff to deal with.  In defence, we are complaining about the fullbacks inability to get forward a bit more than usual this season because our wide players aren't providing the ammunition.  I think Riise and Finnan are both solid and no-nonsense.  There may come a time to "upgrade" to attacking fullbacks but that needn't be our main focus at the moment.

No, our main focus needs to be sorting the midfield out.  In Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko we have central midfield largely sorted.  The trouble is out wide, and A.B.'s right to say it's been a long time since we've had a Macca or Barnes in the team.  Question marks abound on the left.  Will Gonzo raise his game and make the grade?  Will Kewell return from injury and regain his past form?  Will Garcia ever find some consistency?  Will Aurelio bed in somewhere on the left side?  Thing is, there's enough talent in that pool of players to work with for now--even if there are no clear-cut first choice players there.

It's on the right that we're still being let down big style.  Pennant was always going to be a gamble but even I didn't figure he'd be this poor.  He was supposed to offer Stevie more opportunities in CM.  Instead, his pish-poor play has encouraged Rafa to keep sticking Stevie out wide when others are fit in CM, leading to an autumn of paper speculation about Gerrard's satisfaction and Rafa's stubborness.  Well, I'm sorry, but if Pennant were up to it, we wouldn't have to read this cack.  It's becoming clear to me that he's not up to it, though, and it's affecting the entire team.  If we don't see a SIGNIFICANT improvement in his attitude and performances over the next few weeks I'd be sorely tempted to go looking for a replacement in January.  Hell, if Rafa's crafty about it, maybe we can even get a proper winger, now that the footballing world no longer knows we're searching for an RM.

I think Rafa can improve Pennant's attitude or make him play his @rse out for the team. Rafa just need to get another right midfielder who is really good as a winger to challenge Pennant, or if Pennant isn't up to it anymore, then I think Rafa will get rid of him in the summer.

[ConnO'var]

For me, the problems begin and end in midfield.  The strikers we've bought are quality, I'm convinced, and just need much better service.  Kuyt, in particular, works and works for the team and is now setting up goals.  Wouldn't it be nice if a few of his teammates returned the favour?  Bellamy, too, is starved for service and has obviously had a lot of extraneous stuff to deal with.  In defence, we are complaining about the fullbacks inability to get forward a bit more than usual this season because our wide players aren't providing the ammunition.  I think Riise and Finnan are both solid and no-nonsense.  There may come a time to "upgrade" to attacking fullbacks but that needn't be our main focus at the moment.

No, our main focus needs to be sorting the midfield out.  In Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko we have central midfield largely sorted.  The trouble is out wide, and A.B.'s right to say it's been a long time since we've had a Macca or Barnes in the team.  Question marks abound on the left.  Will Gonzo raise his game and make the grade?  Will Kewell return from injury and regain his past form?  Will Garcia ever find some consistency?  Will Aurelio bed in somewhere on the left side?  Thing is, there's enough talent in that pool of players to work with for now--even if there are no clear-cut first choice players there.

It's on the right that we're still being let down big style.  Pennant was always going to be a gamble but even I didn't figure he'd be this poor.  He was supposed to offer Stevie more opportunities in CM.  Instead, his pish-poor play has encouraged Rafa to keep sticking Stevie out wide when others are fit in CM, leading to an autumn of paper speculation about Gerrard's satisfaction and Rafa's stubborness.  Well, I'm sorry, but if Pennant were up to it, we wouldn't have to read this cack.  It's becoming clear to me that he's not up to it, though, and it's affecting the entire team.  If we don't see a SIGNIFICANT improvement in his attitude and performances over the next few weeks I'd be sorely tempted to go looking for a replacement in January.  Hell, if Rafa's crafty about it, maybe we can even get a proper winger, now that the footballing world no longer knows we're searching for an RM.

I agree... the problem starts and ends with the midfield....

Trouble is, 75% of the midfield that was so successful last year are still here... we're only missing Harry...

I think Harry did very well last year but could it be that he's THAT crucial for us? Is his absence causing all this trouble?

Momo doesn't hunt as much as he used to.
Xabi's out of form.
Gerrard's out of form or sulking according to some, whichever you believe..

What has caused all of these issues.... Too many games? World Cup Hangover? Tactical issue? etc etc... The theories abound.... and we all have our own...

What we need is a root cause failure analysis (RCFA) done on our midfield before we can even try to rectify the problem.... Until we know the answer, IMO, the buying of new players in January would be unwise in the extreme

Rafa and his coaching team has to figure this out and do it asap.....

[Redman in wales]

What we need is a root cause failure analysis (RCFA)

oh goody... I'll get me abacus out

[ConnO'var]

What we need is a root cause failure analysis (RCFA)

oh goody... I'll get me abacus out

 



   

[vlady16.1]

looking at the performances of pennant, is it time to give paul anderson a run. obviously it is impossible for me to see a reserve game but if he is as good as he is supposed to be what do we have to lose??? until we get enuff central mids to move gerrard back outside it is critical to get pennant off the field for a while (at least) until he gets his head together

[crossy11]

looking at the performances of pennant, is it time to give paul anderson a run. obviously it is impossible for me to see a reserve game but if he is as good as he is supposed to be what do we have to lose??? until we get enuff central mids to move gerrard back outside it is critical to get pennant off the field for a while (at least) until he gets his head together

i agree with you. 

[Lando_Griffin]

I have a feeling Paul Anderson has had a bit of a to-do with someone somewhere, as when i saw him live it was OBVIOUS he was good enough.

Something's not right somewhere...