Liverpool FC Forum

[Ace Ventura]

NUFC reports to the stock exchange the fee for damien duff was.....£5 million.

Really 5 million ?

Thats surprising considering they supposedly rejected a 7 million bid from Spurs.
5 million is obviously great business for Newcastle but he just wasnt what we needed, plus i would imagine his wages will be really high.

[red37]

i know ace. you have to grit your teeth together at times like this and get on with it. personally i think we have enough to cover us in respect to anything duff could have brought to the table...however, the players ability versus the fee (wages considered) seems to be quite a bit of a steal for them. and in that light an astute piece of business. regardless of the 'issues' duff posesses relating to his medical history etc..

you'd also be forgiven for bemoaning the lack (seemingly) of such business tactics/M.O at our own club, where it boils down to bargains like that happening in the face of aspirations parry/moores obviously have. but frequently appear willing to swerve.  for some strange bizarre reason i believe duff wouldnt have made that much extra difference to our squad...contrary to what i think of him as an obvious talent. there are at least 2 players already here that can offer pretty much the same. if not more?

so in that respect its no great shame for me.. the negotiated fee? thats a different story. and one that may come back to haunt the powers that be at chelsea, eventually to the tune of £12 million. thats for starters. it will snowball...

the same thing i suspect will happen regarding SWP in the end. and though they can afford to be bombastic about money and other such trivia down at the bridge at the moment. they might be laughing on the other side of their faces once rafa and his 'rag-tag' squad have formed such an alliance that week in week out they appear to carry the weight of champions with such ease and grace... others will wonder how they ever had the audacity to turn such bargains down, in favour of good honest working mans ethics!

we dont need him, period.  but aint the irony tangible

[puroresu]

Pennant not coming is he.  Dont Birmingham want £8.5 as 25% has to go to Arsenal.  Some reports say Rafa only bid £3.5 mil.  I could see Birmingham maybe accepting £6 mil but dont think Rafa will bid that much.

[puroresu]

Some news on Trezeguet:

Lyon could be priced out of the possible signing of Juventus striker David Trezeguet.

The Turin club are currently undergoing extensive changes following their relegation to Serie B and points deduction suffered as a result of the match-fixing trial.

Defenders Lilian Thuram, Gianluca Zambrotta and Fabio Cannavaro and midfielder Emerson have all left the Stadio Delle Alpi for new adventures in Spain.

The quartet are unlikely to be the last to depart The Old Lady during the summer with a number of stars far from happy about the current situation.

Clubs across Europe have been keeping tabs on the situation and Trezeguet is known to be a player high on a number of clubs' list of targets.

The Frenchman has been linked with a move to Lyon, Inter and Roma, with the latter reportedly willing to pay €20 million (£13.7 million) for the 28-year-old.

Lyon are refusing to give up on the chase for Trezeguet but his high transfer fee coupled with a reported €5 million (£3.4 million) salary may be too much for the French champions.

Their only option may therefore be to bring the striker to the Stade Gerland on loan and it is yet to be seen whether Juventus would be willing to go down that route.

Lyon chairman Jean-Michel Aulas has previously claimed Trezeguet would like to join the club but much will depend on Juve's demands.

[woof woof !]

Not fussed at all about Duff , I am however beginning to feel a bit anxious about our lack of a lethal out and out striker . Apologies to Robbie Fowler , but even the most ardent "god" worshipper will admit that he's past his best . Although the right mid position still isn't settled we do have enough quality in the squad for Rafa to juggle things about and make do to cover that "problem" , when it comes to strikers however, we don't have anyone who suggests they can get 20+ per season .

Welsh Wizard tells me that Van Nistlerooy will join us if only to p'iss off the Mancs     

I almost wish it were true .   

[Bad Bob]

Not fussed at all about Duff , I am however beginning to feel a bit anxious about our lack of a lethal out and out striker . Apologies to Robbie Fowler , but even the most ardent "god" worshipper will admit that he's past his best . Although the right mid position still isn't settled we do have enough quality in the squad for Rafa to juggle things about and make do to cover that "problem" , when it comes to strikers however, we don't have anyone who suggests they can get 20+ per season .

Welsh Wizard tells me that Van Nistlerooy will join us if only to p'iss off the Mancs     

I almost wish it were true .   

I've said it in another thread, mate, but I think a RM is more crucial than another striker at this point (of course both is still what we all want!) because...

1) While Stevie was awesome out wide last season and while I'm happy to have him continue there, we need cover for that position (Pennant would be ideal, IMO)

2) As for up front, I think Garcia (or Kewell for that matter) could do a real job for us as a second striker in the event that we don't bring any other forwards in.  Little Luis is wasted out wide, IMO, but this WC campaign showed he can play well "in the hole", which is good because...

3) Rafa's system is designed to get plenty of goals from deeper positions--i.e. from just outside the box, scored by midfielders or "linking" strikers.  Even when we play 4-4-2 it seems like a lot of goals come from midfield--especially from Gerrard, Alonso and Kewell last season.  With Gonzales and hopefully a new RM on board, I expect that trend to continue.  This is why I'm not convinced that we need a 20+ goals a season striker to compete for the title.  Under Rafa we are a team that spreads the goals around.

Having said all that, if we sign a clinical finisher in the next month I will not be disappointed in the slightest! 

[stmichael]

I've said it in another thread, mate, but I think a RM is more crucial than another striker at this point (of course both is still what we all want!) because...

1) While Stevie was awesome out wide last season and while I'm happy to have him continue there, we need cover for that position (Pennant would be ideal, IMO)

2) As for up front, I think Garcia (or Kewell for that matter) could do a real job for us as a second striker in the event that we don't bring any other forwards in.  Little Luis is wasted out wide, IMO, but this WC campaign showed he can play well "in the hole", which is good because...

3) Rafa's system is designed to get plenty of goals from deeper positions--i.e. from just outside the box, scored by midfielders or "linking" strikers.  Even when we play 4-4-2 it seems like a lot of goals come from midfield--especially from Gerrard, Alonso and Kewell last season.  With Gonzales and hopefully a new RM on board, I expect that trend to continue.  This is why I'm not convinced that we need a 20+ goals a season striker to compete for the title.  Under Rafa we are a team that spreads the goals around.

Having said all that, if we sign a clinical finisher in the next month I will not be disappointed in the slightest! 

Good post.

Whilst I'd like another striker at the club, as you pointed out, I don't think it's essential at this moment in time. See how things go and then reassess come January. At the moment we have Crouch, Bellamy and Fowler who can all play as a striker with someone off them in the hole such as Garcia or Kewell.

Any combination of the 2 would make a nice pairing up front if we want 2 strikers and a fit Kewell could do that job also. Having signed Gonzales and Aurelio in the summer I think we'll possibly see Kewell in a more central position on occasions this season.

Add in Gerrard in the 4-2-3-1 shape and we have plenty going forward. This time last year we had a struggling Morientes, a newly signed and less confident Crouch and Cisse who the manager didn't rate. Now we have swapped Moro and Cisse for Fowler and Bellamy and there will be more League Goals from them two for sure.

[Bad Bob]

Add in Gerrard in the 4-2-3-1 shape and we have plenty going forward. This time last year we had a struggling Morientes, a newly signed and less confident Crouch and Cisse who the manager didn't rate. Now we have swapped Moro and Cisse for Fowler and Bellamy and there will be more League Goals from them two for sure.

Agreed, mate...

Crouch has grown in confidence over the past season and I expect he'll pick up right where he left off.

Bellamy for Cisse is a quality swap as Bellamy offers much more than Cisse in just about every department.  Good bit of business, that--especially shipping an injured Cisse out on loan!

The real key, though, is that Fowler is taking over Morientes's role.  I really feel that Robbie made Nando redundant toward the end of last season with his excellent link-up play, intelligent distribution and clinical finishing.  Nando simply could not get a game because everything he offered, Robbie did better.  Robbie's certainly picked up where he left off so far this pre-season and could be huge for us (and I'm not talking about his waistline...which seems to have shrunk ) this season!

Add in Pongo (who I still think has a chance to come good), plenty of goals from Gonzo, Kewell, Garcia and Gerrard (not to mention Riise, Alonso, Aurellio etc) and we don't look too bad going forward this season at all! 

[woof woof !]

Not fussed at all about Duff , I am however beginning to feel a bit anxious about our lack of a lethal out and out striker . Apologies to Robbie Fowler , but even the most ardent "god" worshipper will admit that he's past his best . Although the right mid position still isn't settled we do have enough quality in the squad for Rafa to juggle things about and make do to cover that "problem" , when it comes to strikers however, we don't have anyone who suggests they can get 20+ per season .

Welsh Wizard tells me that Van Nistlerooy will join us if only to p'iss off the Mancs     

I almost wish it were true .   

I've said it in another thread, mate, but I think a RM is more crucial than another striker at this point (of course both is still what we all want!) because...

1) While Stevie was awesome out wide last season and while I'm happy to have him continue there, we need cover for that position (Pennant would be ideal, IMO)

2) As for up front, I think Garcia (or Kewell for that matter) could do a real job for us as a second striker in the event that we don't bring any other forwards in.  Little Luis is wasted out wide, IMO, but this WC campaign showed he can play well "in the hole", which is good because...

3) Rafa's system is designed to get plenty of goals from deeper positions--i.e. from just outside the box, scored by midfielders or "linking" strikers.  Even when we play 4-4-2 it seems like a lot of goals come from midfield--especially from Gerrard, Alonso and Kewell last season.  With Gonzales and hopefully a new RM on board, I expect that trend to continue.  This is why I'm not convinced that we need a 20+ goals a season striker to compete for the title.  Under Rafa we are a team that spreads the goals around.

Having said all that, if we sign a clinical finisher in the next month I will not be disappointed in the slightest! 

Understand all of your points completely Bob .

Your third point is probably the key .

(quote)    "3) Rafa's system is designed to get plenty of goals from deeper positions--i.e. from just outside the box, scored by midfielders or "linking" strikers."

This theory is perfect for a 4-5-1 or as you suggest (?) 4-4-2 with a player like Garcia dropping behind the lead striker (again I agree with your observation that this is Garcia's best role)

My arguement  is that in terms of team flexibilty and options ,without dismissing the importance of a top out and out RM player  ,the squad has enough quality to cover that position, (even if it means moving Stevie G back out there , a central midfield of Alonso and Sissoko is still a formidable pairing .)

Up front however, imo without a top striker it limits our options and no matter how much Rafa shuffles the pack we do not look like a championsip winning team . Hard to beat certainly but I fear a lot of drawn games that should've / could've been won if only we had that "special predator" up front.

[red_indian]

the 2 finalists in the world cup effectively played a 4-2-X formation, France the X was 3-1 and for Italy it was a sort of 3-1/2-2 i guess - i think Rafa would like to play a 4-2-3-1, with the two obviously being Momo and Xabi, then i guess Gonzo, Gerrard, Bellamy and then either Fowler/Crouch/New - Henry is not a traditional target man so not necessarily Crouch in that position... key thing would be the pace in the 3 in midfield/attack, we'd have that to spare with the above 3. Solid through the middle and clinical on the break, i'd also think this team would be able to control most games and run the average premiership oppostion ragged. Looking forward to the new season!

[aCe']

the 2 finalists in the world cup effectively played a 4-2-X formation, France the X was 3-1 and for Italy it was a sort of 3-1/2-2 i guess - i think Rafa would like to play a 4-2-3-1, with the two obviously being Momo and Xabi, then i guess Gonzo, Gerrard, Bellamy and then either Fowler/Crouch/New - Henry is not a traditional target man so not necessarily Crouch in that position... key thing would be the pace in the 3 in midfield/attack, we'd have that to spare with the above 3. Solid through the middle and clinical on the break, i'd also think this team would be able to control most games and run the average premiership oppostion ragged. Looking forward to the new season!

control most games is what we did last season.....this season, we are out for the title....and with crouch as a sole striker and garcia or kewell or even bellamy as second striker , we would definetely misss out by drawing way too many games... if we were to play a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2(SS) we need a really good target man with clinical finishing(trezeguet) or simply a great striker(henry!) ..  at 13mill or so..trezeguet is a bargain ffs... no other strikers with his abilities out there in the market ! Our top priority should be a striker....we already know that sissoko,alonso,gerrrard and probably gonzales(kewell) will play in the first team...with garcia as a second striker, the only postion we seem to need reinforcement on is the ST one... GO FOR TREZEGUET IMO !

[Bad Bob]

My arguement  is that in terms of team flexibilty and options ,without dismissing the importance of a top out and out RM player  ,the squad has enough quality to cover that position, (even if it means moving Stevie G back out there , a central midfield of Alonso and Sissoko is still a formidable pairing .)

Up front however, imo without a top striker it limits our options and no matter how much Rafa shuffles the pack we do not look like a championsip winning team . Hard to beat certainly but I fear a lot of drawn games that should've / could've been won if only we had that "special predator" up front.

Can't argue with what you're saying about strikers Woof.  Depth in all areas of the pitch is important and that's arguably truest up front where strikers can run hot and cold in terms of form, in addition to picking up injuries.  Plus, they are the players most likely to tire and be substituted over the course of the match and that's when you want to be able to bring someone on that can change a game up front. That's why the more quality forwards the better.  As I said, I'm still hoping we sign another striker but I don't necessarily think it needs to be a 20+ goals a season man, is all.

My concern with having Stevie be our main RM again this season is injuries--specifically injuries to Stevie, Xabi or Momo.  We were very fortunate to get as many games out of those 3 as we did last year but we saw what happened when Momo was out: Stevie moved back to CM and we sacrificed a lot with Cisse playing out wide on the right.  Without a quality RM who can deputize for Gerrard or make the role his own to allow Gerrard to move back to the middle, I worry about our midfield flexibility next season.  Hell, even if none of those three get injured I still think having an out-and-out right winger is important because, as you say, it allows Rafa to shuffle the pack in terms of personnel and formations on the pitch.

Having said that, I'm still confident we'll get both by September 1.  If it were me in Rafa's shoes, though, with a limited transfer kitty to spend, I'd be inclined to splash out on a RM and use the left overs to reinforce up front rather than the other way round.

[Bad Bob]

the 2 finalists in the world cup effectively played a 4-2-X formation, France the X was 3-1 and for Italy it was a sort of 3-1/2-2 i guess - i think Rafa would like to play a 4-2-3-1, with the two obviously being Momo and Xabi, then i guess Gonzo, Gerrard, Bellamy and then either Fowler/Crouch/New - Henry is not a traditional target man so not necessarily Crouch in that position... key thing would be the pace in the 3 in midfield/attack, we'd have that to spare with the above 3. Solid through the middle and clinical on the break, i'd also think this team would be able to control most games and run the average premiership oppostion ragged. Looking forward to the new season!

control most games is what we did last season.....this season, we are out for the title....and with crouch as a sole striker and garcia or kewell or even bellamy as second striker , we would definetely misss out by drawing way too many games... if we were to play a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2(SS) we need a really good target man with clinical finishing(trezeguet) or simply a great striker(henry!) ..  at 13mill or so..trezeguet is a bargain ffs... no other strikers with his abilities out there in the market ! Our top priority should be a striker....we already know that sissoko,alonso,gerrrard and probably gonzales(kewell) will play in the first team...with garcia as a second striker, the only postion we seem to need reinforcement on is the ST one... GO FOR TREZEGUET IMO !

Nothing I have seen of Trezeguet in the past few seasons would justify a transfer fee of 13 million, IMO.  Plus, since when is he a "target man"?

[aCe']

Whaaatt im pretty sure you havnt been watching any serieA matches recently mate...heres some stats..
Trezeguet
2003: 35 starts (28 goals)
2004: 23 starts (14 goals)
2005 last season : 38 starts (30 goals)...
his strike partner Zlatan started 37 and only managed 10..trezeguet was the main reason they won that serieA last seaon mate....clinical finishing !
And BTW... our very own crouch....sole striker next season if no new face comes in ...
49 starts : 13 goals.....in the league he only managed 8 !
 

[woof woof !]

My arguement  is that in terms of team flexibilty and options ,without dismissing the importance of a top out and out RM player  ,the squad has enough quality to cover that position, (even if it means moving Stevie G back out there , a central midfield of Alonso and Sissoko is still a formidable pairing .)

Up front however, imo without a top striker it limits our options and no matter how much Rafa shuffles the pack we do not look like a championsip winning team . Hard to beat certainly but I fear a lot of drawn games that should've / could've been won if only we had that "special predator" up front.

Can't argue with what you're saying about strikers Woof.  Depth in all areas of the pitch is important and that's arguably truest up front where strikers can run hot and cold in terms of form, in addition to picking up injuries.  Plus, they are the players most likely to tire and be substituted over the course of the match and that's when you want to be able to bring someone on that can change a game up front. That's why the more quality forwards the better.  As I said, I'm still hoping we sign another striker but I don't necessarily think it needs to be a 20+ goals a season man, is all.

My concern with having Stevie be our main RM again this season is injuries--specifically injuries to Stevie, Xabi or Momo.  We were very fortunate to get as many games out of those 3 as we did last year but we saw what happened when Momo was out: Stevie moved back to CM and we sacrificed a lot with Cisse playing out wide on the right.  Without a quality RM who can deputize for Gerrard or make the role his own to allow Gerrard to move back to the middle, I worry about our midfield flexibility next season.  Hell, even if none of those three get injured I still think having an out-and-out right winger is important because, as you say, it allows Rafa to shuffle the pack in terms of personnel and formations on the pitch.

Having said that, I'm still confident we'll get both by September 1.  If it were me in Rafa's shoes, though, with a limited transfer kitty to spend, I'd be inclined to splash out on a RM and use the left overs to reinforce up front rather than the other way round.

  guess we could go round and around on this one Bob    

Still think as things stand we will be entering the new season with an insufficient strike force.

Do agree with you however that Trezeguet is overpriced , even more so when you consider that he's FRENCH .