Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

I remember when Beckham first went to Madrid he complained that they did too much skill and fitness training and not enough conditioning training (muscle building).

I was looking at our players in their pre-season games so far and they all look as if they need building up..... even Sami looks to have lost weight.

Rafa has always been keen on fitness training, even at the expense of skill and tactical training (at least according to Bellamy) but I do worry that our players may get pushed around by some of the less skillful but more physical teams in the prem this season.

Fowler always said he needed a little bit of "weight" to compete with the physical players in the game, while Keegan used to look like a pocket battleship with all the weight training he did.

Should our players maybe put on a little more muscle at the expense of a little speed, so that they can compete better physically in the prem?


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums....-04.jpg

[account deleted by request]

Maybe they should try the Rafa and Sammy diet 

[Alonso14]

I think it depends on what kind of player you are. When Owen was lighting fast he didn't need the weight. When he became slower through injuries he had to adjust his game, which involved changing his  body to make himself a more physical presence.

[Ace Ventura]

Its obviously about finding a balance.

I have also noticed that the players look really thin, and bear in mind this is at the very start of pre season training as well, when some players would usually be carrying a bit too much weight.

If they lose anymore they will be getting blown away in a strong wind. 

[RedBen]

PENNANT: NEW BOYS HAVE IMPRESSED US

Paul Hassall in Switzerland 21 July 2008 

  Jermaine Pennant believes Liverpool's pre-season camp in Switzerland has provided the club's new boys with the perfect workout ahead of 2008-09. 
The Reds winger feels the likes of Philipp Degen, Andrea Dossena and Diego Cavalieri have all benefitted from a week at the training camp in Interlaken and is confident they will prove to be good signings for the club.
 
"We're all working hard and I think our overall fitness is improving all the time but it has been hard, it always is at this time of year," Pennant told Liverpoolfc.tv.
 
"There have been double sessions, weights sessions, ball work; you name it, we've done it.
 
"But it's been good because we've got to know some of the new lads and it's given the young players who have come into the squad a chance to get to know all of us a bit better.
 
"They've come in and impressed us all and it's always good to see young players doing well, so hopefully they will continue to show what they can do because that would only be good for the club."

 

[Bad Bob]

Cheers for the pics Saint...we'll have Nanny in here with her collection of topless Torres snaps now!

[account deleted by request]

PENNANT: NEW BOYS HAVE IMPRESSED US

Paul Hassall in Switzerland 21 July 2008 

  Jermaine Pennant believes Liverpool's pre-season camp in Switzerland has provided the club's new boys with the perfect workout ahead of 2008-09. 
The Reds winger feels the likes of Philipp Degen, Andrea Dossena and Diego Cavalieri have all benefitted from a week at the training camp in Interlaken and is confident they will prove to be good signings for the club.
 
"We're all working hard and I think our overall fitness is improving all the time but it has been hard, it always is at this time of year," Pennant told Liverpoolfc.tv.
 
"There have been double sessions, weights sessions, ball work; you name it, we've done it.
 
"But it's been good because we've got to know some of the new lads and it's given the young players who have come into the squad a chance to get to know all of us a bit better.
 
"They've come in and impressed us all and it's always good to see young players doing well, so hopefully they will continue to show what they can do because that would only be good for the club."

 

It depends what sort of weight sessions they have been doing. Lots of reps with light weights aids fitness, while few reps (3 or 4) with very heavy weights when supplimented by the correct diet builds muscle.

[LFC2007]

It's a common misconception that increase in size = increase in strength. It's not necessarily the case. Hence why you find professional bodybuilders twice the size of Olympic weightlifters, but who can lift significantly less. So, if certain players appear slimmer, they may not necessarily have lost muscular strength. Two types of muscle hypertrophy (growth): i) Sarcoplasmic (increase in cell fluid), ii) Myofibrillar (increase in myofibrils*). Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy will result in overall muscle size increase, but not an equal increase in strength. So, relating this back to the squad - the latter (myofibrillar hypertrophy) suits the training objectives of the squad more than the former, as we're looking for increases in strength, endurance, skill and speed. However, there clearly needs to be a base level of bulk in order to be effective (as you can only be so strong with a limited muscle size) - combining strength with a bit of bulk - which is needed to force players off the ball etc.  I think certain players lack the required level of bulk which is needed to be most effective, e.g. Lucas, Benayoun, Skrtel, Agger, Arbeloa.  However, I don't see the aforementioned players bulking up greatly as I think Rafa, and the fitness trainers, see increases in strength endurance, stamina, speed as more important training objectives. So, to sum up - Whilst a set level of bulk is needed, and a level of strength in order to 'guide' the bulk - it is because training to bulk up works against the most important training objectives, that makes it very difficult to get the correct balance.

I think it's safe to assume that the conditioning of the squad is being monitored quite closely - the club doctor intimated as much in an interview recently. The fitness trainers will be aware who's lost weight, who's gained weight, who's stayed the same. I think they'll also have done tests to assess the strength of the players. It simply depends on the objectives of the coaching team.




*(small fibres within muscle fibres)

[Toffeehater]

It's a common misconception that increase in size = increase in strength. It's not necessarily the case. Hence why you find professional bodybuilders twice the size of Olympic weightlifters, but who can lift significantly less. So, if certain players appear slimmer, they may not necessarily have lost muscular strength. Two types of muscle hypertrophy (growth): i) Sarcoplasmic (increase in cell fluid), ii) Myofibrillar (increase in myofibrils*). Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy will result in overall muscle size increase, but not an equal increase in strength. So, relating this back to the squad - the latter (myofibrillar hypertrophy) suits the training objectives of the squad more than the former, as we're looking for increases in strength, endurance, skill and speed. However, there clearly needs to be a base level of bulk in order to be effective (as you can only be so strong with a limited muscle size) - combining strength with a bit of bulk - which is needed to force players off the ball etc.  I think certain players lack the required level of bulk which is needed to be most effective, e.g. Lucas, Benayoun, Skrtel, Agger, Arbeloa.  However, I don't see the aforementioned players bulking up greatly as I think Rafa, and the fitness trainers, see increases in strength endurance, stamina, speed as more suitable training objectives. So, to sum up - Whilst a set level of bulk is needed, and a level of strength in order to 'guide' the bulk - because training to bulk up works against the most important training objectives, it will inevtiably be very difficult to get the correct balance.

I think it's safe to assume that the conditioning of the squad is being monitored quite closely - the club doctor intimated as much in an interview recently. The fitness trainers will be aware who's lost weight, who's gained weight, who's stayed the same. I think they'll also have done tests to assess the strength of the players.




*(small fibres within muscle fibres)

good post , sums it up .


Don't understand the doctor terms though 

[account deleted by request]

I think it's safe to assume that the conditioning of the squad is being monitored quite closely - the club doctor intimated as much in an interview recently.

Which leads me on to my second point...... the club doctor. There are a lot of discussions at the moment (on the net) about just how good our Doctor Waller is. He made errors over the diagnosis and treatment of Kewell which led to long delays and setbacks in Kewells recovery from his groin injury, and now (according to "supposed" doctors on Rawk)has compounded that error by the treatment for Agger. Agger should have been sent for surgery once his injury had not been completed within 12 weeks according to those doctors. Special boots for Agger as with the specially designed truss for Kewells injury failing to solve the problems.

It seems Doctor Waller has something of a reputation for trying various treatments before referring them for specialist treatment, which has led to some delays in the correct treatment and players return to fitness.

[LFC2007]

Something of a "Parry factor" about him perhaps? 

[RedBen]

Something of a "Parry factor" about him perhaps? 

Second time, but still funny   

[Rush Job]

PENNANT: NEW BOYS HAVE IMPRESSED US

Paul Hassall in Switzerland 21 July 2008 

  Jermaine Pennant believes Liverpool's pre-season camp in Switzerland has provided the club's new boys with the perfect workout ahead of 2008-09. 
The Reds winger feels the likes of Philipp Degen, Andrea Dossena and Diego Cavalieri have all benefitted from a week at the training camp in Interlaken and is confident they will prove to be good signings for the club.
 
"We're all working hard and I think our overall fitness is improving all the time but it has been hard, it always is at this time of year," Pennant told Liverpoolfc.tv.
 
"There have been double sessions, weights sessions, ball work; you name it, we've done it.
 
"But it's been good because we've got to know some of the new lads and it's given the young players who have come into the squad a chance to get to know all of us a bit better.
 
"They've come in and impressed us all and it's always good to see young players doing well, so hopefully they will continue to show what they can do because that would only be good for the club."

 

It depends what sort of weight sessions they have been doing. Lots of reps with light weights aids fitness, while few reps (3 or 4) with very heavy weights when supplimented by the correct diet builds muscle.

The "sweet spot" for building muscle is anywhere between 6 and 12 reps depending on the person, you need to progresively overload them in order to make them grow. Sami was looking thin the other night but i didnt notice any difference with the rest, maybe he was unwell before preseason.

[NANNY RED]

Cheers for the pics Saint...we'll have Nanny in here with her collection of topless Torres snaps now!

And whats wrong with my pics of Fernando gotta have something nice to look at when you get to my age.
All yous lot are just jealous cause your either an awl ar.se like me or a youngeter with a beer belly

Fernando looks to be keeping him self fit to me,

Regarding Saints point i think that will come Saint with the more training and build up exersises they do. Before the season starts, I see what you mean though regarding Sami and Benayoun looked more lightwieght than he normaly is , But on the other hand players nowdays tend to keep themselves more fitter pre season than what they did years ago.
You dont see many players now coming into pre season and having to shed wieght.
You just have to look at the games weve played each game players have been wearing heart monitors.

[bigmick]

Well I guess now the owners seem to have made up, it doesn't do any harm to get a couple of extra scapegoats lined up in the sights just in case it all goes pearshaped. I can see it now, "it's nothing to do with Rafa or rotation FFS  , it's Doctor Waller and his revolutionary methods"