Liverpool FC Forum

[Rorschach26]

So do you all think that Rafa has been a good manager lately then, do you think he will suddenly change, how will the team suddenly come good seeing as we struggle to create chances against fecking Wigan!!

I support and always have done Liverpool FC but I do not support Rafa, he has me off far too many times now and I have never been a sheep who follows blindly like GYBS and Leon do Baaahhh!

As for believing we can win the league, get to feck, we have absolutely no chance as long as we have the "inspired" and "genius" managment of Rafa. 

if ur not a sheep why are you making sheep noises?

[Gerrard30391]

Got to be honest,

I support when i can, but for the past months wins have become more in hope than expectation.
However, i can't see us finishing above Man Ure or Chavski and we'll be more than 5 points off the top, but i will say now, as i still hope (not believe), i am willing to hold my hands up and say i was wrong if i am, infact, wrong.

[Rorschach26]

The support part is unconditional. Thinking that mass rotation from game one is silly, not playing a bloke who you've just paid 20 million quid for when he's just scored two goals in the previous match etc etc doesn't have any effect on your support. You still will the team on, be it via a dodgy stream, a radio broadcast, on the telly or indeed via text. You support the team and the club because you always have.

You might even hope that your misgivings about the methodology are wrong. Perhaps those people who patrol the boards trying to smash any dissent with insults and ridicule know better, maybe they knew the real truth all along. As time goes on though, you kind of come to the conclusion that you were probably not wrong, probably not a gobsh!te, that you didn't need to be inside Melwood to know it wasn't the way to go after all, all these "new" methods. You still support the club, the team and the manager, but you lose hope that you are about to witness a second coming. People throw words around like "legend", and phrases like "tactical genius" around willy nilly, but you don't think you're in the presense of either. Much as you don't like to admit it, you suspect that what you are seeing is an incoherent mish-mash of policy, a muddle through with bluster.

Still they circle you and anyone else each time you voice a worry. When we draw game after game and somebody ventures an opinion that it may one day cost us, they are lambasted. When someone tries to explain that perhaps the league is not the strongest this term, they are laughed at. But still Aston Villa continue their assault on the top of the table, and you wonder how they've managed to improve quite so much. You look and you don't see mass rotation, you don't see record signings being dropped after scoring two goals then being left to rot on the bench, you don't see public contract negotiations, you don't see Carlos Kickaballs being signed from various corners of the World to provide "options" and "possibilities". It appears there are no revolving doors, and you don't hear rants other than trying to tell another club to feck off when they offer 10 million quid for their best player. You see that, and you wonder why things can't be different.

Things can be different, and when they are choose whoever is the manager, I'll believe. Until then, they'll just have to make do with my support from 12000 miles away. Unfortunately as far as belief goes, I stopped believing in the methodology four seasons ago. Perhaps if there had been a single person on here who could convince me that the mass rotation of personel, positions which people play in and the formation is a good idea it might have been different. Similarly, if somebody could have convinced me that this season signing a striker for 20 million quid and then dropping him each time he scores a goal was a good idea it might have been different. Many tried, but ultimately nobody could. The main reason they couldn't is quite simply because they aren't good ideas.

The worst part about it is, they don't even think they're good ideas themselves. One day they'll probably admit that, but thats for them I suppose.

For my part, I'll just keep hoping the team can turn it around I think.

so are you like talking in third person?

[Gerrard30391]

So do you all think that Rafa has been a good manager lately then, do you think he will suddenly change, how will the team suddenly come good seeing as we struggle to create chances against fecking Wigan!!

I support and always have done Liverpool FC but I do not support Rafa, he has me off far too many times now and I have never been a sheep who follows blindly like GYBS and Leon do Baaahhh!

As for believing we can win the league, get to feck, we have absolutely no chance as long as we have the "inspired" and "genius" managment of Rafa. 

Watch it doesn't hit your A$s as you go out it mate. The door that is!
Are you serious with that? There isn't too many who have said he's been a good manager lately.

[Leonmc0708]

Lest there be no misunderstandings, absolutely everyone is entitled tho their views on the manager and everyone else. I personally don't think that if someone is fervently pro-Rafa it means they are a c... Nor do I think if they believe in mass rotation it means they aren't a real fan. Nor so I think they are a fecking imbecile if they think the manager should be given a new contract at the end of the season. All are opinions, and are as valid as anyone else's. Many people who hold such opinions are regualr match-goers, and are 1 million per cent entitled to their opinion.

What I don't get though, is if you don't necessarily agree with that, in some peoples eyes that makes you "not a real fan", a "gobsh!te", "fickle" etc etc. How you can be fickle when you've been going on about something for four years I don't know, but there it is.


As for what should happen at the end of the season, I think from here on in should decide. To be perfectly honest I don't think it overly matters whether we finish 7 points off the top or 12 in terms of deciding where to go. It's how we do it that counts.

There is a distinct feeling that the manager has if not lost the dressing room, at the very least temporarily misplaced it. It's whther or not this situation is rectified which will decide his future I think. Stories about Gerrard and Carraher being p!ssed off with him (and no I wasn't there myself, nor do I have any Hienz or HP's) are as unsurprising as they are worrying. Did the team selection and substitutions give us the very best chance of winnign an important game against Wigan? Of course not, and as they watch another year in their quest for a league title slip away I'm not surprised they are p!ssed off.

How he repairs that damage I'm not sure, but that's what he needs to do. The damage in terms of his relationship with the likes of Keane is probably irrepairable, so he'll have to be sold off. My impression (once again it's only that) is as well that his relationship with Xabi Alonso was probably dealt a mortal blow in the Summer. I've noticed a distinct lack of mention of the manager and his methodology from Xabi, and I'd be very surprised if infact he was one of the Spaniards to jump ship should Rafa go. In all honesty, I'd be very surprised if there was a single player who would leave for that reason. Even Torres doesn't look quite right to me. There's something imperceptable about his gait which is different to last season.

  Sundays game is probably the biggest match of Rafa's Liverpool career, including the Champions League finals. Lose there, and we're dead in the water. From there, it might be really difficult to get the players up for a dogfight for third and fourth. The wheels could concieveably come off in no uncertain terms, and in those circumstances there's no telling what might happen.

Being aloof as a manager and treating players like robots is all well and good, but it would be unwise to then expect bust a gut loyalty from them. Whatever anyway, how we go in the league from now on will be crucial. You obviously don't change the manager now, but if I'm honest I suspect that come the end of the season we might then.

Who are the people that you refer to as these super fans ?

[account deleted by request]

Who are the people that you refer to as these super fans ?

Where does Mick refer to anyone as being a super fan, or have I missed something?

[Leonmc0708]

The thing which has baffled me most over the last four seasons is this. Why do people think that if you appear to believe in Rafa's methodology, that makes you some kind of super-fan? Why are you more of a fan, is you believe in mass rotation from game one or believe that signing a 20 million poiund striker and not playing him in the immediate aftermath of scoring is a good idea? I don't get it.

Here saint for the hard of lookingthroughthreads.

[Kharhaz]

Who are the people that you refer to as these super fans ?

Where does Mick refer to anyone as being a super fan, or have I missed something?

I asked Mick to edit it, I felt too humble and told him so !

[account deleted by request]

The thing which has baffled me most over the last four seasons is this. Why do people think that if you appear to believe in Rafa's methodology, that makes you some kind of super-fan? Why are you more of a fan, is you believe in mass rotation from game one or believe that signing a 20 million poiund striker and not playing him in the immediate aftermath of scoring is a good idea? I don't get it.

Here saint for the hard of lookingthroughthreads.

It wasn't in the post you quoted 

[Leonmc0708]

The thing which has baffled me most over the last four seasons is this. Why do people think that if you appear to believe in Rafa's methodology, that makes you some kind of super-fan? Why are you more of a fan, is you believe in mass rotation from game one or believe that signing a 20 million poiund striker and not playing him in the immediate aftermath of scoring is a good idea? I don't get it.

Here saint for the hard of lookingthroughthreads.

It wasn't in the post you quoted

Humblest of apologies.

[ConnO'var]

Lest there be no misunderstandings, absolutely everyone is entitled tho their views on the manager and everyone else. I personally don't think that if someone is fervently pro-Rafa it means they are a c... Nor do I think if they believe in mass rotation it means they aren't a real fan. Nor so I think they are a fecking imbecile if they think the manager should be given a new contract at the end of the season. All are opinions, and are as valid as anyone else's. Many people who hold such opinions are regualr match-goers, and are 1 million per cent entitled to their opinion.

What I don't get though, is if you don't necessarily agree with that, in some peoples eyes that makes you "not a real fan", a "gobsh!te", "fickle" etc etc. How you can be fickle when you've been going on about something for four years I don't know, but there it is.


As for what should happen at the end of the season, I think from here on in should decide. To be perfectly honest I don't think it overly matters whether we finish 7 points off the top or 12 in terms of deciding where to go. It's how we do it that counts.

There is a distinct feeling that the manager has if not lost the dressing room, at the very least temporarily misplaced it. It's whther or not this situation is rectified which will decide his future I think. Stories about Gerrard and Carraher being p!ssed off with him (and no I wasn't there myself, nor do I have any Hienz or HP's) are as unsurprising as they are worrying. Did the team selection and substitutions give us the very best chance of winnign an important game against Wigan? Of course not, and as they watch another year in their quest for a league title slip away I'm not surprised they are p!ssed off.

How he repairs that damage I'm not sure, but that's what he needs to do. The damage in terms of his relationship with the likes of Keane is probably irrepairable, so he'll have to be sold off. My impression (once again it's only that) is as well that his relationship with Xabi Alonso was probably dealt a mortal blow in the Summer. I've noticed a distinct lack of mention of the manager and his methodology from Xabi, and I'd be very surprised if infact he was one of the Spaniards to jump ship should Rafa go. In all honesty, I'd be very surprised if there was a single player who would leave for that reason. Even Torres doesn't look quite right to me. There's something imperceptable about his gait which is different to last season.

  Sundays game is probably the biggest match of Rafa's Liverpool career, including the Champions League finals. Lose there, and we're dead in the water. From there, it might be really difficult to get the players up for a dogfight for third and fourth. The wheels could concieveably come off in no uncertain terms, and in those circumstances there's no telling what might happen.

Being aloof as a manager and treating players like robots is all well and good, but it would be unwise to then expect bust a gut loyalty from them. Whatever anyway, how we go in the league from now on will be crucial. You obviously don't change the manager now, but if I'm honest I suspect that come the end of the season we might then.

Excellent couple of posts mate.

You summarised it all for me nicely and totally agree.

[Kharhaz]

That is a good question though for Lando and Leon. Do you not get frustrated by some of the decisions made by rafa? the ones that make you scratch your head? I understand getting angry with "supporters" demanding rafa out but as most of us said early last year a majority would like him to see out his contract. I think its a good question posed by mick. If rafa isnt to blame for what a lot of people see as baffling decisions, whose fault is it? or is it just down to bad luck?

[bigmick]

In fairness to Leon I said it in an earlier post. There are (or were) a bunch of people who patrolled the boards dishing it out to anyone who raised their heads above the parapet and voiced concerns. Usually, (in fact almost always) they didn't bother actually debating any points raised, they simply went in for the jugular.

This took many forms, "how often do you go to the game", "where do you live", "what do you do for a living", "who do you play for", "what level of football have you played at/managed at" were the normal sort of questions, failing that it was just an assault. Mixed in with that, was the implication that if you ceased to "believe" that you were in some way a rat who was deserting the ship, being "disloyal", a "knee jerker" or the ultimate insult, "fickle". The feeling seems to be that you have to close your eyes, block your ears and abando your senses, because sooner or later good will prevail and it'll all come right. If it doesn't, you mustn't say anything until all is officially declared pear shaped, then it's Ok.

Lando said earlier that he isn't about to turn his back on the manager after five draws, which is fair enough. Nor should he if he thinks the manager is and has been doing the right thing. That's the thing really, he's entitled to his opinion. I don't think he's a gimp for having an opinion different to mine, I jus think he's wrong. On the offchance that he is interested in why I think he is wrong, and that Rafa is making and has made too many mistakes, I'm happy to explain my point.   

Doesn't mean he's not a real fan though. Neither does it mean that if Rafa were to leave that I think he'd want the team to lose. Neither did any of us, ever.

[Madmax]

WE all should support our team and manager but we all have our own views and could say whatever we want when the manager makes silly decisions. I hate it when the manager does make a mistake or fecks the team up and yet we still have some here licking his b@lls. Feckin its like imagine hitler killing all the jews and yet some loyal feckers still saying your doing a good job we have faith in you..
If he fecks the team up then you could voice yourselves out. No need to stick with ever decision one makes.

[Leonmc0708]

That is a good question though for Lando and Leon. Do you not get frustrated by some of the decisions made by rafa? the ones that make you scratch your head? I understand getting angry with "supporters" demanding rafa out but as most of us said early last year a majority would like him to see out his contract. I think its a good question posed by mick. If rafa isnt to blame for what a lot of people see as baffling decisions, whose fault is it? or is it just down to bad luck?

Of course.

If Liverpool do not win a game of football I am pis.sed off for a couple of days, if we lose I go over and over it, watching the replays, reading the commentary, listening to the interviews. I cant stand it.

At times I think its a burden this bird in my life.

But hten you get nights like Chelse Semi's and turkish nights in Istanbul, Dortmund finals and days out in Cardiff and it makes it al lworth it.

I question Rafa, I am dismayed at times by his team sheets and I often give that cow licking pi.ss off a nettle look to my brother when he brings on some obscure change fro mthe bench when we all seem to think that we know the right change to make.

Thing is, its like when you where in school and yer brother was suspended for glueing the teacher to the seat (true story actually) - you defend his name in the face of taunts even if you know he was wrong to do it, to the point of no return sometimes, - because you love the lad. In private you will tell yer best mate he was wrogn though.

Rafael Benitez has never set out to hurt Liverpool fans, He has never set out to purposely lose a game, he has set out to make my dreams come true. And for that I love the man like my own. Sometimes he has gotten it wrong and sometimes I think I knew what he should of done (dont we all) but he never did anything but try his best to make my club THE best.

I dont think changing hte players every week works, but I can see the reasons why someone who works with the players EVERY day might have other ideas.

I dont think Robbie KEane is worth more than £8m - in fact I now know he is not - but he (alledgedly) bought him so I will run with that. I feel vindicated in my hour long sermons down the boozer to the lads that he was not who we wanted, but I dont feel good about that, in fact I wish every day I was wrong.

LAst night, as I saw us lose the initiative once more in the title race, and our best player by a coutry mile trudge off, I thought to myself "WHAT THE FU.CK IS HE DOING". I still cant get my head round it. In fact I have tried not to think about it too much as I worry I may lose some of the respect/faith/love I have for the man, and I dont want to do that.

We are where I had hoped we would be at this stage - within a couple of points of the top. so for me its mission accomplished to date.

I never thought we could win the league this season, I firmy beleive that you need to have been in and around ut efore, as a team, felt the highs and lows and the pressure and the pain, to have the mental resolve to do what United are doing right now.

But I wont turn my back on him.

I did that to a certain extent with Houllier - and I feel ashamed of it. I had some wonderful times supporting this club under him also, and towards the end I turned against him, the same man who risked his life to return to the job of making my dreams come true. Once bitten twice shy - so I won do it with this man, not this time.