Liverpool FC Forum

[Lando_Griffin]

So do you all think that Rafa has been a good manager lately then, do you think he will suddenly change, how will the team suddenly come good seeing as we struggle to create chances against fecking Wigan!!

I support and always have done Liverpool FC but I do not support Rafa, he has me off far too many times now and I have never been a sheep who follows blindly like GYBS and Leon do Baaahhh!

As for believing we can win the league, get to feck, we have absolutely no chance as long as we have the "inspired" and "genius" managment of Rafa. 

So he wasn't reponsible for getting us to the top of the league, then?

When we were creating chance after chance after chance?

You do talk some utter rubbish.

[LegBarnes]

So do you all think that Rafa has been a good manager lately then, do you think he will suddenly change, how will the team suddenly come good seeing as we struggle to create chances against fecking Wigan!!

I support and always have done Liverpool FC but I do not support Rafa, he has me off far too many times now and I have never been a sheep who follows blindly like GYBS and Leon do Baaahhh!

As for believing we can win the league, get to feck, we have absolutely no chance as long as we have the "inspired" and "genius" managment of Rafa. 

So he wasn't reponsible for getting us to the top of the league, then?

When we were creating chance after chance after chance?

You do talk some utter rubbish.

He is in part I say with some major luck and a very good player in gerrard all helps of course.

But We are playing just as we did start of season and just not getting rub of green.

But I have not been happy with type of football we play atm.

No ideas up front at all.

To top of we don't seem to be working as a team when in final 3rd.(or could just be not alot of bodys in box)

Either way its dire to watch and I need new finger nails.

[stmichael]

Brilliant idea, this.

Why don't we just have one thread called "Positivity," one called "Negativity," and we can really sort this forum out. We wouldn't even need to allow other threads at all, if you think about it. You think Babel is out of form this season and isn't going to make the grade? Post it in Negativity. Want to share your excitement over that pass Torres just made? Post it in Positivity. Can't see why no one thought of this earlier. 

[LegBarnes]

Brilliant idea, this.

Why don't we just have one thread called "Positivity," one called "Negativity," and we can really sort this forum out. We wouldn't even need to allow other threads at all, if you think about it. You think Babel is out of form this season and isn't going to make the grade? Post it in Negativity. Want to share your excitement over that pass Torres just made? Post it in Positivity. Can't see why no one thought of this earlier. 

Its not bad but why does it have to be so anal all this posting lark can't we just post what we like with out insulting or abusing any one ?

Seems a bit controling like ?

[bigmick]

The thing which has baffled me most over the last four seasons is this. Why do people think that if you appear to believe in Rafa's methodology, that makes you some kind of super-fan? Why are you more of a fan, is you believe in mass rotation from game one or believe that signing a 20 million poiund striker and not playing him in the immediate aftermath of scoring is a good idea? I don't get it.

I could easily argue that it makes you less of a fan, as you are defending something which is detremental to our chances of success as a football club.

Just so's we know, is there anyone who thinks that first the signing, and then the treatment of Keane has been to the benefit of Liverpool Football Club this season? Is there anybody left who still thinks mass rotation from game one is a good idea in the Premierhsip? Is there anybody left who still thinks this is a relatively strong league this season?

If there is, great. It doesn't make me a super-fan that I disagree with you, but the reverse also applies.

[Effes]

The support part is unconditional. Thinking that mass rotation from game one is silly, not playing a bloke who you've just paid 20 million quid for when he's just scored two goals in the previous match etc etc doesn't have any effect on your support. You still will the team on, be it via a dodgy stream, a radio broadcast, on the telly or indeed via text. You support the team and the club because you always have.

You might even hope that your misgivings about the methodology are wrong. Perhaps those people who patrol the boards trying to smash any dissent with insults and ridicule know better, maybe they knew the real truth all along. As time goes on though, you kind of come to the conclusion that you were probably not wrong, probably not a gobsh!te, that you didn't need to be inside Melwood to know it wasn't the way to go after all, all these "new" methods. You still support the club, the team and the manager, but you lose hope that you are about to witness a second coming. People throw words around like "legend", and phrases like "tactical genius" around willy nilly, but you don't think you're in the presense of either. Much as you don't like to admit it, you suspect that what you are seeing is an incoherent mish-mash of policy, a muddle through with bluster.

Still they circle you and anyone else each time you voice a worry. When we draw game after game and somebody ventures an opinion that it may one day cost us, they are lambasted. When someone tries to explain that perhaps the league is not the strongest this term, they are laughed at. But still Aston Villa continue their assault on the top of the table, and you wonder how they've managed to improve quite so much. You look and you don't see mass rotation, you don't see record signings being dropped after scoring two goals then being left to rot on the bench, you don't see public contract negotiations, you don't see Carlos Kickaballs being signed from various corners of the World to provide "options" and "possibilities". It appears there are no revolving doors, and you don't hear rants other than trying to tell another club to feck off when they offer 10 million quid for their best player. You see that, and you wonder why things can't be different.

Things can be different, and when they are choose whoever is the manager, I'll believe. Until then, they'll just have to make do with my support from 12000 miles away. Unfortunately as far as belief goes, I stopped believing in the methodology four seasons ago. Perhaps if there had been a single person on here who could convince me that the mass rotation of personel, positions which people play in and the formation is a good idea it might have been different. Similarly, if somebody could have convinced me that this season signing a striker for 20 million quid and then dropping him each time he scores a goal was a good idea it might have been different. Many tried, but ultimately nobody could. The main reason they couldn't is quite simply because they aren't good ideas.

The worst part about it is, they don't even think they're good ideas themselves. One day they'll probably admit that, but thats for them I suppose.

For my part, I'll just keep hoping the team can turn it around I think.

Nice post Mick.

I think most people believe Rafa's "speciality" is the Champions league. I do.

Over 2 legs he can set a Liverpool team out against anybody to make life very difficult for the
opposition to progress to the next round.
Basically, a team hard to beat.

Bayer Leverkusen (05), Juventus (05), Chelsea (twice), Barca away (07), Inter (08) -
all proved what Rafa's strengths are.
The negatives tho:

However, he finds it hard to change the mentality in the Premier League - when
I say menatlity, Im not sure it's his own or the team's.
You have to have a more postive approach in the league, feck the draw and just go for the jugular.

His man management, I think, is almost non existent.
His "resting" of players is not required, nor necessary sometimes.
His substitutions are baffling sometimes.

Getting rid of him this season is madness.
But I also think we should keep him in the Summer.

I love Rafa, but he drives me up the wall also.

[dawson99]

It's not about being a superfan. It's about some fans saying he should
"take his sombrero and f**k off"
or
"get his fat a*** outta here"

Total showing of disrespect from some so called fans

Others of us do indeed wear rose tinted glasses. But why watch football unless you believe you can win?

[LegBarnes]

The thing which has baffled me most over the last four seasons is this. Why do people think that if you appear to believe in Rafa's methodology, that makes you some kind of super-fan? Why are you more of a fan, is you believe in mass rotation from game one or believe that signing a 20 million poiund striker and not playing him in the immediate aftermath of scoring is a good idea? I don't get it.

I could easily argue that it makes you less of a fan, as you are defending something which is detremental to our chances of success as a football club.

Just so's we know, is there anyone who thinks that first the signing, and then the treatment of Keane has been to the benefit of Liverpool Football Club this season? Is there anybody left who still thinks mass rotation from game one is a good idea in the Premierhsip? Is there anybody left who still thinks this is a relatively strong league this season?

If there is, great. It doesn't make me a super-fan that I disagree with you, but the reverse also applies.

I think this you are spot on I don't want rafa out because I just hate him I really like the guys personality and he is a great cup manager , due to his more defensive take on game.

But I feel he harms our chances in league alot by not keeping it simple and just doing what is the norm.

Yes of course if we got games vrs likes of manc chavs ar.seholes sure be a little more tricky and do something not to the norm , but in bread and butter fixtures you need to keep it simple match them man for man becuase this is when your squad value should pay its due's.

But am I any less of a fan because I think this pfff do me a favor.

[LegBarnes]

It's not about being a superfan. It's about some fans saying he should
"take his sombrero and f**k off"
or
"get his fat a*** outta here"

Total showing of disrespect from some so called fans

Others of us do indeed wear rose tinted glasses. But why watch football unless you believe you can win?

Yes I agree those comments are not needed tbh.

I have my problems with him but I won't drop to name calling just because I don't agree with what he is doing at our club its not on. 

[NANNY RED]

It's not about being a superfan. It's about some fans saying he should
"take his sombrero and f**k off"
or
"get his fat a*** outta here"

Total showing of disrespect from some so called fans

Others of us do indeed wear rose tinted glasses. But why watch football unless you believe you can win?

Good shout Daws.

I dont class myself as a superfan im just a little scouse girl who happens to love Liverpool FC an anything associated with it, Its hard sometimes to remain positive but then i think to myself you have to because the day i stop being or feeling positive about us is the day i pack it all in.

[LegBarnes]

It's not about being a superfan. It's about some fans saying he should
"take his sombrero and f**k off"
or
"get his fat a*** outta here"

Total showing of disrespect from some so called fans

Others of us do indeed wear rose tinted glasses. But why watch football unless you believe you can win?

Good shout Daws.

I dont class myself as a superfan im just a little scouse girl who happens to love Liverpool FC an anything associated with it, Its hard sometimes to remain positive but then i think to myself you have to because the day i stop being or feeling positive about us is the day i pack it all in.

I feel tho nanny as fan alot of us always try to tell our selfs we can win I go into every game hoping that at very least.

As for if we didn't think we could win what would be point angle ?

I don't think that has alot of meening in football in general maybe more to top end of league teams , as I am sure alot of bottom end of teams its a different story all together.

[bigmick]

Lest there be no misunderstandings, absolutely everyone is entitled tho their views on the manager and everyone else. I personally don't think that if someone is fervently pro-Rafa it means they are a c... Nor do I think if they believe in mass rotation it means they aren't a real fan. Nor so I think they are a fecking imbecile if they think the manager should be given a new contract at the end of the season. All are opinions, and are as valid as anyone else's. Many people who hold such opinions are regualr match-goers, and are 1 million per cent entitled to their opinion.

What I don't get though, is if you don't necessarily agree with that, in some peoples eyes that makes you "not a real fan", a "gobsh!te", "fickle" etc etc. How you can be fickle when you've been going on about something for four years I don't know, but there it is.


As for what should happen at the end of the season, I think from here on in should decide. To be perfectly honest I don't think it overly matters whether we finish 7 points off the top or 12 in terms of deciding where to go. It's how we do it that counts.

There is a distinct feeling that the manager has if not lost the dressing room, at the very least temporarily misplaced it. It's whther or not this situation is rectified which will decide his future I think. Stories about Gerrard and Carraher being p!ssed off with him (and no I wasn't there myself, nor do I have any Hienz or HP's) are as unsurprising as they are worrying. Did the team selection and substitutions give us the very best chance of winnign an important game against Wigan? Of course not, and as they watch another year in their quest for a league title slip away I'm not surprised they are p!ssed off.

How he repairs that damage I'm not sure, but that's what he needs to do. The damage in terms of his relationship with the likes of Keane is probably irrepairable, so he'll have to be sold off. My impression (once again it's only that) is as well that his relationship with Xabi Alonso was probably dealt a mortal blow in the Summer. I've noticed a distinct lack of mention of the manager and his methodology from Xabi, and I'd be very surprised if infact he was one of the Spaniards to jump ship should Rafa go. In all honesty, I'd be very surprised if there was a single player who would leave for that reason. Even Torres doesn't look quite right to me. There's something imperceptable about his gait which is different to last season.

  Sundays game is probably the biggest match of Rafa's Liverpool career, including the Champions League finals. Lose there, and we're dead in the water. From there, it might be really difficult to get the players up for a dogfight for third and fourth. The wheels could concieveably come off in no uncertain terms, and in those circumstances there's no telling what might happen.

Being aloof as a manager and treating players like robots is all well and good, but it would be unwise to then expect bust a gut loyalty from them. Whatever anyway, how we go in the league from now on will be crucial. You obviously don't change the manager now, but if I'm honest I suspect that come the end of the season we might then.

[LegBarnes]

Well Mick I don't think you have to be a pro footballer or a ex manager bla bla to notice there is problems there , body lang of the players is pretty big hint.

I just hope he can get things back on track as I feel Next league game if we don't win he might be in trouble you just know in ya heart of hearts that the owners are in a position where they want to sell the club , they gona be like if we keep rafa and we finish 4th-5th or maybe 6th will we get the most money or if we sack him bring in new fresh manager what would get us the most money ?

Due to then tits knowing fk all about football , Its wouldn't be the first time they make the wrong choice.

Right choice of course if to give rafa to end of season bad choice sack him and bring in a quick fire manager that won't do any better then rafa.

[stmichael]

Lest there be no misunderstandings, absolutely everyone is entitled tho their views on the manager and everyone else. I personally don't think that if someone is fervently pro-Rafa it means they are a c... Nor do I think if they believe in mass rotation it means they aren't a real fan. Nor so I think they are a fecking imbecile if they think the manager should be given a new contract at the end of the season. All are opinions, and are as valid as anyone else's. Many people who hold such opinions are regualr match-goers, and are 1 million per cent entitled to their opinion.

What I don't get though, is if you don't necessarily agree with that, in some peoples eyes that makes you "not a real fan", a "gobsh!te", "fickle" etc etc. How you can be fickle when you've been going on about something for four years I don't know, but there it is.


As for what should happen at the end of the season, I think from here on in should decide. To be perfectly honest I don't think it overly matters whether we finish 7 points off the top or 12 in terms of deciding where to go. It's how we do it that counts.

There is a distinct feeling that the manager has if not lost the dressing room, at the very least temporarily misplaced it. It's whther or not this situation is rectified which will decide his future I think. Stories about Gerrard and Carraher being p!ssed off with him (and no I wasn't there myself, nor do I have any Hienz or HP's) are as unsurprising as they are worrying. Did the team selection and substitutions give us the very best chance of winnign an important game against Wigan? Of course not, and as they watch another year in their quest for a league title slip away I'm not surprised they are p!ssed off.

How he repairs that damage I'm not sure, but that's what he needs to do. The damage in terms of his relationship with the likes of Keane is probably irrepairable, so he'll have to be sold off. My impression (once again it's only that) is as well that his relationship with Xabi Alonso was probably dealt a mortal blow in the Summer. I've noticed a distinct lack of mention of the manager and his methodology from Xabi, and I'd be very surprised if infact he was one of the Spaniards to jump ship should Rafa go. In all honesty, I'd be very surprised if there was a single player who would leave for that reason. Even Torres doesn't look quite right to me. There's something imperceptable about his gait which is different to last season.

  Sundays game is probably the biggest match of Rafa's Liverpool career, including the Champions League finals. Lose there, and we're dead in the water. From there, it might be really difficult to get the players up for a dogfight for third and fourth. The wheels could concieveably come off in no uncertain terms, and in those circumstances there's no telling what might happen.

Being aloof as a manager and treating players like robots is all well and good, but it would be unwise to then expect bust a gut loyalty from them. Whatever anyway, how we go in the league from now on will be crucial. You obviously don't change the manager now, but if I'm honest I suspect that come the end of the season we might then.

Good post Mick.

Personally, I have to say that I find it impossible to pigeon hole Rafa as any one thing; just when you think you understand where he's coming from, he'll do something either completely mental, stupid and obviously self-defeating or else he'll blow your mind with the incredible and unprecedentedly brilliant effectiveness of something.

Things in the former category: uber-rotation, signing players but using them out of position, completely ignoring the fact that some players need coaxing and supporting. Things in the latter category: turning Djimi Traore into the shut-out king nightmare of Europe's best right wingers, converting Steven Gerrard into a 20-a-season forward, making the end of Chelsea's four year unbeaten home record look like a piece of pi$$.

Rafa Benitez: the most inscrutable manager in the history of the game. I have myriad doubts about him, both on and off the pitch, but equally there's not a lot of arguing with his trophy record, either here or elsewhere. All in all, I think the deferred contract is a good thing.

[GYBS]

Have people started accusing other people of not being real fans or proper fans and saying they are super fans etc ?