Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

I´d be happy if Rafa found the best mix of lads to play the away games - crunching tacklers at the back, aggressive midfield and proactive strikers who committed additional markers on them to take away the home team advantage and leave a home selection XI to provide a more fluid performance to win the home games. From our results last season when  we were great at home and appalling away, seems to me in my little world that we need a different style of character to play away from home to breakdown the home teams flow dominate the game.

`Sensible rotation´ I would call it.

[MightyLFC]

Rafa knows what he is doing

[XSD]

What rafa is on about is how much harder players work now we have a big squad.
Everyone needs to be given games to prove themselves and when they are they are working their socks off as we saw last night.

You can't just not play half the squad, our players are too good. Give rafa and his rotation a chance.

[NiftyNeil]

I've not had a problem with the rotation this year. What was frustrating at the start of last season is that the team was being ridiculously rotated week in week out, but we weren't getting the results. The team had no time to settle with each other. After a good start, I see no problem with a bit of tinkering here and there.
Long gone are the days of winning the league with 16 players. We now have at least two players for every position. In many cases, two internationals for the same position. For years we have bleated about not having enough depth to mount a serious challenge, but this year we have. I see no harm in using the  squad that we have at our disposal. Rafa needs to keep these players hungry, fit and ready and rotation is the way to do this.

[metalhead]

Bigmick i understand your concerns because it could go to what you said, but then you look back at the Chelsea and Aston Villa game, the line up were almost the same or maybe the same. Rafa only rotated once in the league, which was against sunderland, but did he actually changed alot against sunderland? He replaced voronin with kuyt, gerrard (injured) with sissoko, and riise for ryan babel, so that makes it 3 changes in the league till now. Toulouse is an average side, as some members said, Rafa is focusing on his top priority, which is the league, so he is keeping his first team regulars fresh for the next league games, I wouldn't be surprised if I see the same or very similar side this saturday of last.

Second, I hope or i'm confident that rotation will work this season, having said that we have the depth we need, but we do need to add some extra quality into the squad, starting with a defender.

[redtrader74]

I'm worried too, i'm worried that people on here think that all losses are down to rotation. Change a player or two and THATS why we lost, the opposition can't have played better, the tactics can't be wrong, the players didn't play like three legged dogs, no it was rotation.

I really don't think Rafa is being given the credit that he deserves, the last 3 years have been about getting to where we are, a true contender for the League. Those years have been about creating a squad that can be rotated, about the players understanding and playing the way Rafa wants to.

ROTATION WILL HAPPEN, Rafa has said that players will play 30-40 games, well work it out if the main 22 players play anywhere near that, they will have to be rotated.

Tolouse and Derby(not won that one yet!) are poor, well so were Sheffield Utd and Haifa, and rotation was blamed for the poor performances then, and yet this Year it didn't matter because we won / will win 

I must have a bad memory so please can those that talk of 7-8-9 changes between the Prem matches last Year please explain when that happened, so we can lay that one to rest, i can't think of more than 5 unforced changes.

I am also confused with Micks point on not believing the sqauds as strong as some think, and yet thought it was strong enough to win the Prem last Year and believe its stronger now??

'I'm annoyed when he tinkers for no need'
that statement is laughable. Someone actually believes Rafa does that. You may not believe it but Rafa will have reasons why he rotates, some he may reveal to us and others he won't, but the ultimate reason will be to win the match, and if you don't believe that, and think he does it for the sake of it, then call for his dismissal.

This play your best 11 notion is so simplistic, if it was that easy the top managers wouldn't be so sought after, anyone of us could do it. Play your best 11, well what is it?? check out these boards, some will argue it should be Carra and Hyypia, others Carra and Agger. Some will say Gerrard and Alonso, Alonso and Masher, Masher and Gerrard. Or Torres and Kuyt, Torres and Voronin, Torres and Crouch. There are many more. We haven't really got a best 11, we have got what Rafa wants, a sqaud that has different qualities where the team picked is sufficient to beat what it faces.

Personally i wanted us to be more attacking and that has been the case so far this season, rotation should not fail as some suggest due to a lack of cohesivness, because the players play and train with each far more each day, than when playing matches, so the cohesion should be there, and the majority have been together for a while now.

IMHO i will get a true gauge of our seasons potential after 10-12 games, but the funny thing is the vehement 'anti-rotationalists' (you know who you are!) have already started taking the edge off their comments. 

[red37]

Derby(not won that one yet!)

As lame as it sounds......that is exactly right!  Rafa won't be dismissing the Rams as easy prey and nor should anyone. (even though it may well turn out to be the case)

Good points overall RT.

[LegBarnes]

I'm obviously really pleased we've started well, only a calamitous refereeing decision preventing us from having a league and cup 100% record. I'm more than a little concerned however that the wrong conclusions may be drawn from our last couple, and our next one result.

Already, the pro-rotationers are getting carried away because we made a stack of changes against Toulouse and still won comfortably. We also made a couple of changes against Sunderland and comfortably prevailed so what's the problem, surely it just proves Rafa was right all along? I'll tell you what, we'll make a load more changes on Saturday against Derby and we'll win again very comfortably. So rotation is working eh Mick 

Well lets get a couple of things straight here. Firstly, Sunderland and Toulouse are very poor teams. Derby on Saturday are a very poor team and Rafa could put Stu the Red up front and we'd probably still win. He could make eight changes from Toulouse and we'd probably still win. Does it prove that mass rotation is the way to go? No, it just proves that these are poor teams.

FWIW I thought and indeed think that Rafa has almost learned his lesson. The selection at Sunderland was mostly sensible (only Babbel for Riise being a typical "Rafaism") but Toulouse at Home was a bit more concerning.

This is what really bothers me. Once we've made half a dozen changes for the Derby game and still won comfortably, will Rafa remember that he played the same team for the first two games? Will he remember that in order to prevail at venues such as Fratton Park you need a team which is fully tunes up, not just players that are honed and ready to go, but a TEAM that is fully tuned up and together?

I've read a couple of times that now the squad is stronger than last season we should be able to rotate without weakening the team so much. The squad is indeed stronger particularly with the introduction of Torres, but by no means to the degree some are indicating (as I've said many times it was strong enough to launch a title push last season as well). The reality is though, even if you replace like with like ability wise, (and Alonso and Masherano would appear to be a perfect example) you still weaken the team by constantly doing so as the other players don't get chance to form a cohesive alliance with that player.

I'm very concerned firstly that we will convince ourselves that selectorial silliness is Ok again by virtue of the fact that we are able to beat substandard teams with what amounts to our reserve eleven. I also hope that the fact that we aren't using these "warm-up" fixtures against the lesser lights to prepare for the bigger battles to come won't come back to haunt us. Sensible rotation is OK (and with Gerrard and Carragher both being out, that's pretty much enough rotating for me TBH) but please no tinkering.

We need to remember that though swapping like for like sounds OK in theory, it won't work. Footballers come in individual packages, but together they form a team. Ultimately, it's the best one of those which will win the league, and not a bunch of rested individuals.

What you have to remeber is Rafa is with his squad every day training them he sees things in players we dont he might see that bable isnt feeling very good one day and see leto is bouching around in trianing and feeling good and playing well .

He might also see that xabi is look a little out of form so he bring momo in he knows what he is doing i think when some of yuo take a team to 2 CL finals winning 1 then you might question his methods cos lets face we can all have our views and so on but none of us have proven at the top level like he has .

In rafa we trust !

[Rafa D]

I'm worried too, i'm worried that people on here think that all losses are down to rotation. Change a player or two and THATS why we lost, the opposition can't have played better, the tactics can't be wrong, the players didn't play like three legged dogs, no it was rotation.

I really don't think Rafa is being given the credit that he deserves, the last 3 years have been about getting to where we are, a true contender for the League. Those years have been about creating a squad that can be rotated, about the players understanding and playing the way Rafa wants to.

ROTATION WILL HAPPEN, Rafa has said that players will play 30-40 games, well work it out if the main 22 players play anywhere near that, they will have to be rotated.

Tolouse and Derby(not won that one yet!) are poor, well so were Sheffield Utd and Haifa, and rotation was blamed for the poor performances then, and yet this Year it didn't matter because we won / will win 

I must have a bad memory so please can those that talk of 7-8-9 changes between the Prem matches last Year please explain when that happened, so we can lay that one to rest, i can't think of more than 5 unforced changes.

I am also confused with Micks point on not believing the sqauds as strong as some think, and yet thought it was strong enough to win the Prem last Year and believe its stronger now??

'I'm annoyed when he tinkers for no need'
that statement is laughable. Someone actually believes Rafa does that. You may not believe it but Rafa will have reasons why he rotates, some he may reveal to us and others he won't, but the ultimate reason will be to win the match, and if you don't believe that, and think he does it for the sake of it, then call for his dismissal.

This play your best 11 notion is so simplistic, if it was that easy the top managers wouldn't be so sought after, anyone of us could do it. Play your best 11, well what is it?? check out these boards, some will argue it should be Carra and Hyypia, others Carra and Agger. Some will say Gerrard and Alonso, Alonso and Masher, Masher and Gerrard. Or Torres and Kuyt, Torres and Voronin, Torres and Crouch. There are many more. We haven't really got a best 11, we have got what Rafa wants, a sqaud that has different qualities where the team picked is sufficient to beat what it faces.

Personally i wanted us to be more attacking and that has been the case so far this season, rotation should not fail as some suggest due to a lack of cohesivness, because the players play and train with each far more each day, than when playing matches, so the cohesion should be there, and the majority have been together for a while now.

IMHO i will get a true gauge of our seasons potential after 10-12 games, but the funny thing is the vehement 'anti-rotationalists' (you know who you are!) have already started taking the edge off their comments. 

Fucking Ace Post.

[ivor_the_injun]

Seconded. Nice one Redtrader.

There are no Zendens, Palettas or Gonzalezes this season - all the contenders for the first 11 look worthy of the shirt on a weekly basis. Even the Sissoko naysayers have to concede that he looks a changed player so far. I can't believe the difference in his passing.

[Rafa D]

Riise at left back is still a bag of shite though.

I seriously, seriously hope Rafa is pulling out all the stops for a left back and not those Julio Baptista rumours I heard at the ground last night.

[ivor_the_injun]

I don't think he's as bad as some have said, but he does look out of form to me.

He's never been the best defensively, but he's sloppy in possession at the minute, which is making him stand out quite badly as the passing elsewhere in the team has been quality.

[Bad Bob]

That would go a long way to explaining why we've seen so much of Arbeloa at LB this season.  Things will get interesting once Aurelio gets fit.

[account deleted by request]

I have always supported rotation (even when we have had some bad results)but I do understand where BigMick and the other anti-rotation crew are coming from.  Sometimes Rafa has seemed more interested in a match one or two games down the line rather than making sure we win each game as it comes. I also believe that rotation has cost us points in the past, just not as many as some others think.

The one thing I don't like about rotation is it deflects responsibility for defeats away from the players. People blame rotation rather than the fact Gerrard was cr@p, Alonso had a quiet game and Crouch missed 10 sitters. 

We have a head of steam up now, and our new players are bedding in nicely, but its a long season and I am pretty sure there will be some downs along the way (hopefully not), but at least we are still in there fighting at the end of August, lets hope we are still there fighting come May.

I think Riise is a very good player, who works his socks off for the team, and is a very valuable member of the team/squad. Maybe we can buy better but until we do I am happy to see his name on the team sheet.

[the_red_alonso]

With full respect to To-Lose there was no chance of them beating us so it didn't matter how many changes rafa made there.

He has fielded good attacking sides in the 3 premiership games till now & done the job.I'm happy with rotation at the moment coz we've plenty of quality now & deffo this team CAN win the premiership.