Liverpool FC Forum

[Owzat]

We could go all out and try to win every game - then hope the title can be won with only 83 points. However we could simply burn ourselves out chasing pies in the sky, we've little hope of catching up that many points on THREE teams having to play two of them away and we might be best concentrating on the games at home and the Champions League. I reckon we need 12-16 points to finish fourth, if nine of those are at home the bitters would need to better that tally by three points from seven games and they've got three of the top four including us to play. Any time they play a decent team they lose, they've lost EIGHT league games already with every prospect of losing another three or more. So a 'big club' loses nearly a third of its games does it? They're only this close to us because we've drawn way too many games, they've lost as many games at home as we have overall.

So if we do push hard for the title we will almost certainly fail and it could cost us fourth and any chance in the Champions League. Not saying we should go for draws or not try, but if we're at the Emirates 0-0 in the League then should we go all out for a winner and risk dropping points or try and keep the draw in our bid for fourth and let the players take it easy-er for the rest of the game with the return leg of the CL in mind?

[NANNY RED]

I didnt know there was friendlies next week its unbelievable

Mascherano's flight to Egypt leaves Benítez fuming


Andy Hunter
Tuesday March 18, 2008
The Guardian

Rafael Benítez has admitted he is astonished at losing Javier Mascherano to an international friendly in Egypt next week and powerless to limit the Argentina midfielder's workload at a critical stage in Liverpool's season.

The Liverpool manager is resigned to a host of international departures after Sunday's league game at Manchester United and accepts that, along with Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsène Wenger and Avram Grant, it is an inevitable problem for leading clubs given the squads they have assembled. Indignation and not resignation, however, has shaped the Spaniard's reaction to Mascherano's employment in Cairo a week tomorrow.


Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard, who will be on international duty for Spain and England respectively that night, have taken the plaudits during Liverpool's impressive run of seven successive victories but Mascherano, outstanding at Internazionale and in the 2-1 win against Reading on Saturday, has been integral to their recovery and the success of Benítez's 4-2-3-1 system.

His departure for what Benítez considers an unnecessary friendly against the African Cup of Nations' champions, four days before the Merseyside derby with Everton and a week ahead of the Champions League quarter-final first leg at Arsenal, is therefore a major concern for the Liverpool manager.

"I am really, really happy that Mascherano must go to Egypt to play a friendly," said a sarcastic Benítez, who also loses the midfielder to Argentina's Olympic squad in August as one of their three over-23 players. "Things like that you just cannot understand. There is nothing you can do. The rules are the rules and the players must go."

Argentina's friendly commitments will not create added concern for Ferguson next week as Carlos Tevez has been omitted from Alfio Basile's squad. The United striker was sent off during his country's World Cup qualifying defeat by Colombia in November and misses their next competitive game against Ecuador in June, hence his absence against Egypt. Benítez admitted he would ask Basile to limit Mascherano's playing time in Cairo were it not for the suspicion that such requests are pointless.

"You can't speak to the coach. You can say 'Be careful' but they are thinking about themselves," he insisted. "They need to check the players to see if they can manage with the team, so it will be very difficult. It's the same problem for all the top sides. Normally the best players are in the top sides and they are playing Champions League or playing for the title."

Mascherano and Liverpool's international contingent will play six games in 17 days should they be involved in next week's friendlies, a sequence intensified by the calibre of opposition throughout, and Benítez believes his rotation policy is justified by such demands.

"That for me is the reason that the squad is important, especially at this stage of the season," he said. "You need a good squad to use the players properly - sometimes you can and sometimes you can't. If you lose, everyone is talking about the players who are not playing but you could see against Reading on Saturday that some of the key players were a bit tired."

Mascherano scored his first Liverpool goal in the victory over Steve Coppell's side and has taken some gentle ribbing from his team-mates for the understandable celebrations that followed.

The 23-year-old Argentine revealed: "I have not scored a goal since I was at River Plate, so to score one for Liverpool, and in front of the Kop, was really special. I celebrated like I had gone crazy and some of the lads in the dressing room said I was like [Milan's Pippo] Inzaghi in the Champions League final."

Liverpool's run, coupled with Everton's defeat at struggling Fulham, has strengthened their hold on the fourth Champions League qualifying place. Benítez's team have reduced their gap behind Arsenal from 16 points to eight in five matches. "How near we finish to the top now will be interesting," the manager said. "We have been criticised this season, but let us see where we are in three or four weeks. If we can beat Manchester United we will be closer to the top and that will give us more confidence.

"If we beat Everton after that then we will be closer still. Do we have a point to prove? Maybe, but only if we can keep winning three points.

[Roger Red Hat]

ban all international freindlys. I hate the national team anyway   CLUB FIRST

[bigmick]

The one thing I can't get away from for the United game and indeed all our games over the next two weeks or so is how different the two extremes will be if we go well/badly. Here we are at the moment talking about the slim but I suppose slightly possible scenario whereby we could win the title, while if Man Utd beat Bolton on wednesday (which they will) and then us on Sunday (which they might) I think we'd be fourteen points adrift on equal games played. We'd then be staring down the gun-barrel at the derby game being massive, as I would assume Everton will beat west ham at home. Lose that and suddenly the whole season looks like a disaster unless we can win the Champions league.

On the other hand of course go to old Trafford and win, then see off Everton at home and although we still wouldn't win the league, we would finish close enough for all but the harshest critics to concede that at least we've made a bit of a go of it after some dreadful spells. I hope though we get a bit of perspective from all as the end game nears. Even if we were to go down in a couple of games out of the next five or six, providing we finish in the top four and we take forward the philosophy we seem to be embracing as of now, I'll be happy enough. Similarly, if we win most of the matches and finish up single figures behind, it won't represent a triumph in my eyes as far as the league is concerned. The Champions League will kind of look after itself I reckon. I actually fancy us against a distracted Arsenal, but to win it we're very likely going to have to put all three of the other English teams out in successive rounds, if we do that then that really will be a hell of an achievement. Similarly though, failure to do so wouldn't represent a disaster either.

[Toffeehater]

I don't question them as , they stick by their club , they don't say this or that , they don't defend another manager especially grant who does not deserve credit , i agree wenger and ferguson do get credit from them but they earned it . Grant has not . Lets end this discussion here mate , u're a red , i am a red thats all that matters

Of course Grant deserves credit. The guy came in at  a tiem when fans were angry that Jose was gone. He has come in and he has put them in touchign distance of winnign the league. The title is in there hands now. Chelsea are 3 points of the top witha  game in hand and both Man Utd and Arsenal to come at Stamford Bridge.

They reached the Carlign Cup final under Avram. Chelsea are in the Champions League quarter finals.

Avram has won 10 of his last 12 games. Chelsea are still in the race and for me, I would say that they are 2nd favourites to win it behind United.

He deserves some credit.

Not in my book mate , the squad is not his , any one can do what he has done with that squad , maybe even better

[Toffeehater]

Of course Grant deserves credit

Please mate Grant is a turkey !!!

So wat if he came iin wen the fans were angry ... he had a club full of internationals and the subs were internationals.Not that hard to reach the carling final with a team he has.

He hasnt bought anyone good ... Anelka = flop (again) 

So no he does not deserve any credit....

Yet thery are 3 points of the top with a game in hand and the big two still to come. A position that we wish we could be in.

Chelsea have won 10 of the last 12 games. How many of us Liverpool fans would take that kind of form for the last 9 games if we were given it now.

Please, stop being blinded by the red mist.

Barcelona are a team full of Internationals yet look at how they are doing this season. Real Madrid were a team full of superstar internation who failed for 3 years running until Capello came in.

A team also needs the right manager to be succesful. A manager who can gel players, somethign which Avram has done since he is arrived.

I'm sure u jerk off to him everyday then eh? Grant like i said has done nothing expect lead a squad in the position they are now like u said cos the squad is good , maybe even the best in the premier league . Like i said before again , anyone can do the same with a squad like his and the backing of roman . Maybe even better ,

[Big Niall]

Not a chance, in fact I'll force myself to cheer for any of the three teams above us if they are playing Everton.

4th is as good as we can do.

[Big Niall]

Avram Grant reminds me of Joe Fagan. He has taken over a very good and will just keep it ticking over for a couple of years without doing anything drastic and then hand it over to a new manager.

All he needs is to win a league and Champions league this year   (I don't care about the domestic cups.)

[Yari7]

yari if u had a chance to climb the ladder or stick where u are what will u do? i will risk climbing the ladder and even if i fall it might just mean me growing wings to fly.

It epends on the situation. As a manager, I would go into every game to win but by the 80th minute, depending on the situation, I may opt to hold out for a draw.

If you try to climb too high, you may fall off the ladder.

We will go into the Untied game trying to win, but by the 80th minute, hangign on for a draw may be the smarter option if we are playing for 4th spot that is.

We musnt look past Everton. They are a good team who are still hot on our heels. The most realistic option is that we focus on getting 3 points to keep the pressure on Everton.

By Sunday, we will know for sure if we are in the title race again or not.

So if we're 1-0 down with ten minutes left do we just sit back and say "well we'll still be above them on goal difference" because obviously if we try and equalise we might conceed a second a if it came down to goal difference we'd be kicking ourselves wouldn't we.

The reason we're even fighting for fourth is because we've tried to sit back rather than going to kill games off. If it's 1-1 then I'd expect the entire team to go out and make it 2-1 because I can guarentee you United would do the same if they were in our position. It gives you a pyschological advantage as well if you beat a side you're competing with.

Your example was horrible. If we are losing 1-0 down, its a no brainer.  We would have to try and attack to salvage a point. Losing 1-0 or 2-0 is the same. However. 1-1 is better than losing 2-1 if we are playing for fourth.

However, for your scenario of losing 1-0, lets go back to the game at Anfeild vs Barcelona. We were losing 1-0 with 10 mins to go. It was 2-2 on agregate byut we were ahead on away goals. What would you have done in the last 10 mins? Would you have pushed ahead to get the equaliser, or try to defend and settle for the 1-0 loss but go through on aggregate?


As for trying to kill off teams. yes, we should try to kill off teams, but after 80 mins of failing to kill off a team, with 10 mins to go,  maybe its smarter to settle for the 1-0, sit back and defend, make use of possesion instead of trying to attack akk guns blazing and leaving your self more wide open to a counter.

Tactics will depends on different situations.

[Judge]

yeah. attack if we are not having any 3 points. just like in 300, or some other greek epic, its always more appreciated if u ''die in pride'' then let them whip u around.

dont think dying is the answer maypax, as we aint the strength in depth for that

just need to outscore our opponents

[Yari7]

yari if u had a chance to climb the ladder or stick where u are what will u do? i will risk climbing the ladder and even if i fall it might just mean me growing wings to fly.

It epends on the situation. As a manager, I would go into every game to win but by the 80th minute, depending on the situation, I may opt to hold out for a draw.

If you try to climb too high, you may fall off the ladder.

We will go into the Untied game trying to win, but by the 80th minute, hangign on for a draw may be the smarter option if we are playing for 4th spot that is.

We musnt look past Everton. They are a good team who are still hot on our heels. The most realistic option is that we focus on getting 3 points to keep the pressure on Everton.

By Sunday, we will know for sure if we are in the title race again or not.

So if we're 1-0 down with ten minutes left do we just sit back and say "well we'll still be above them on goal difference" because obviously if we try and equalise we might conceed a second a if it came down to goal difference we'd be kicking ourselves wouldn't we.

The reason we're even fighting for fourth is because we've tried to sit back rather than going to kill games off. If it's 1-1 then I'd expect the entire team to go out and make it 2-1 because I can guarentee you United would do the same if they were in our position. It gives you a pyschological advantage as well if you beat a side you're competing with.

just like in the game against inter where kuyt wanted to protect the 1-0 lead but we got another goal as a result of pushing forward.

That was a different stuation. Benitez was urging us to atttack after we got the first goal vs Inter because we were up agaisnt 10 men. We could afford to attack without them producign anything meaningful ont he counter.

It was a different situation.

[maypaxvobiscum]

yeah. attack if we are not having any 3 points. just like in 300, or some other greek epic, its always more appreciated if u ''die in pride'' then let them whip u around.

dont think dying is the answer maypax, as we aint the strength in depth for that

just need to outscore our opponents

haha of course Judge i didnt mean it that way

i still remember that amazing tackle Gerrard gave anderson at anfield. that was bloody good!

[club_Levis]

Sadly no chance mate we blew it with those draws earlier in the season. We will finish fourth.

[Judge]

Sadly no chance mate we blew it with those draws earlier in the season. We will finish fourth.

maypax, do you wanna shoot this dude or should i ?

[holylamb2006]

Sadly no chance mate we blew it with those draws earlier in the season. We will finish fourth.

Take a trip out of negative town