Liverpool FC Forum

[ivor_the_injun]

I really, really, really don't understand all this "Rafa made a blunder"-style comment on here, and the various reports that assert that not starting with Torres was insanity.

He was sh*t against Porto. What message does that give the other strikers if Torres starts by default even on the back of a very poor performance?

As I and others have said, we did not draw with Brum because of rotation. We were terrible all over the pitch, and Birmingham Ladies could've given us a game.

Honest to god, do not give me all this rotation is evil nonsense after every poor performance. I haven't met a single soul from this forum, but I bet 11 of us could meet on any given park and manage to pass the ball to one another reasonably competently. That players in the red shirt can't get together at a home game and manage to find the feet of players they've trained with for weeks, months and in some cases years is not the fault of the manager, is not a rotation issue, and is not a selection flaw. It's a sign that a team isn't playing well, and key individuals are out of form. Nothing more sinister than that.

And ironically, the solution is probably rotation, particularly where Gerrard's concerned.

[maypaxvobiscum]

liverpool played badly
all clubs go through such stages
few weeks back everyone was talking bout a title
now....people are even suggesting to sack rafa
also, some say we were shocking last night. i didnt watch the match. but im curious....why is it most of the blame is being directed at the fact torres didnt play? is torres such a big deal? honestly, what if he gets injured are we gonna lose every game then? we have a bloody capable squad to begin with so if theres anybody to be blamed its the team. not entirely rafa. but also the team.

there you go AB's Red Army.

[112-1077774096]

and the various reports that assert that not starting with Torres was insanity.

He was sh*t against Porto. What message does that give the other strikers if Torres starts by default even on the back of a very poor performance?

so we never play him again because he had a poor game against porto? i don't understand your point here, if we don't play him how will we ever know he isn't sh*te anymore? (sarcasm mate, don't take it to heart, just making a point)

kuyt couldn't hit a cows @rse with a banjo but keeps getting selected, the fact is it appears we have paid 22 million quid for a bloke who can only play once a week or who the manager doesn't trust to do a job against two pub teams.

you are right about the players being unable to string passes together and i did address that earlier, they have no cohesion and no confidence mate as they are constantly being asked to perform with different players, and i don't care what anyone says, different players make different runs, different players do different things etc.

familiarity breeds contempt they say, well in football i think familiarity is a good thing

[ivor_the_injun]

and the various reports that assert that not starting with Torres was insanity.

He was sh*t against Porto. What message does that give the other strikers if Torres starts by default even on the back of a very poor performance?

so we never play him again because he had a poor game against porto? i don't understand your point here, if we don't play him how will we ever know he isn't sh*te anymore? (sarcasm mate, don't take it to heart, just making a point)

No, you do exactly what Rafa did - bring him on as sub, and see if he's looking sharp and hungry enough to justify picking him for the next game. By the hour mark you'd have expected the line-up he'd put out to have put the game well beyond a side of Brum's calibre, so I still assert that there was nothing wrong with the team selection.

kuyt couldn't hit a cows @rse with a banjo but keeps getting selected, the fact is it appears we have paid 22 million quid for a bloke who can only play once a week or who the manager doesn't trust to do a job against two pub teams.

Like it or not, Kuyt scored against Porto. Yes he was otherwise poor, but at a club where goals have been hard to come by in the last fortnight, you can surely forgive Rafa for playing the guy that has hit the net the most recently.

you are right about the players being unable to string passes together and i did address that earlier, they have no cohesion and no confidence mate as they are constantly being asked to perform with different players, and i don't care what anyone says, different players make different runs, different players do different things etc.

familiarity breeds contempt they say, well in football i think familiarity is a good thing

It's a reasonable point, but why do these players suddenly look like strangers? Don't forget it's much the same bunch of players that put 6 past Derby, and who should've got a result against Chelsea. I maintain that blaming rotation is just scapegoating when results don't go our way. I'm not saying I'm a fan of it, but it's just backwards to blame it when it didn't appear to be doing us any harm at all just a month or so ago, when the new signings genuinely were relative strangers to their teammates.

Our form is in a bit of a slump. It happens. You get out of it by dropping players that aren't performing, training hard and doing the simple things right. And passing the f*cking ball to feet instead of lumping it skyward from defence would be a start.

[112-1077774096]

some fair points ivor, but until the rotation stops we will not be able to prove who was right either way.

all i know is we are changing players often and we are not winning the league, this is simplifying it i know but its a fact, whether rotation is the reason we are not even close to winning the league after three seasons is open to debate

[ivor_the_injun]

I think you'll be waiting a good long while for rotation to stop mate. It's just Rafa's way. It's been said in another thread that we had countless posts moaning about his love of zonal marking when results occasionally didn't go our way in his first season...it's in that category for me. It's easier to blame one man instead of the 11 out on the pitch, and as rotation clearly happens in Rafaworld, people are blindly pointing at that as the reason we've not come out of the Pompey and Brum matches with 6 points.

B*llocks, I say. We haven't got 6 points in those games because players paid a fortune seem to have forgotten how to a) pass and b) shoot. Talk about simplifying, but frankly that's all there is to it.

He could have put out any permutation from his available players and they should have been able to get the results. That they didn't is a failing of the players, not the manager or his tactics.

[112-1077774096]

i see your point ivor, i really do, of course the players are to blame as they are the players on the pitch, but i also fell the uncertainty the have week to week because of the constant changes is a factor in bad performances.

we can not however blame the players for tactics that don't work, I am all for letting the other team worry about us but rafa seems intent on setting up to counter other teams even when tis is to the detriment of out team. i thought that would change this season but sadly the signs are still there.

maybe i am a dinosaur, i think play the strongest team every week unless there are injuries, let the others counter us, not keep changing our team because of what some sh*te team like pompey or birmingham will do, and for this the fault does not lay with the players

[account deleted by request]

I think we're just going round and round in circles now.

1/ Torres not playing against Brum had nothing to do with Rotation. It was a tactical decision, right or wrong made by Rafa about who would do best against a particular team and a particular style of play.

2/ Rotation is here to stay as long as Rafa is manager, you can either grow to love it, or continue banging your heads against a brick wall , 'cos I think Rafa would leave before give up on his ideas. Rightly or wrongly he has based his whole footballing philosophy on fitness and rotation.

3/ Rafa is not god and occasionally gets things wrong, accept it and hope he gets more right than wrong.   

4/The team occasionally plays cr@p for no apparent reason, all teams do, I am sure they don't do it deliberately and its not always Rafa or Gerrards fault.

5/Happy clappers should realise that not everything is going well ,we have dropped vital points against poorer teams for whatever reason. While the fickle brigade should realise that we haven't suddenly become a bad team, we have just had a couple of bad results, and although we have made it more difficult for ourselves we can still do it. 

Looking on the bright side, we could have very easily lost against Portsmouth and Porto, but we didn't, and once we get a creative second striker our problems will be over.( maybe a winger as well )

[maypaxvobiscum]

to be fair to the rotation idea, i still thought we had a chance to win this game even without torres. i dont see why a team of so many international stars couldnt cut it. even manure with players like richardson and fletcher were able to do it. i reckon the players simply ran out of ideas. i cant blame rafa for this.

[66-1112520797]

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I really, really, really don't understand all this "Rafa made a blunder"-style comment on here, and the various reports that assert that not starting with Torres was insanity.

He was sh*t against Porto. What message does that give the other strikers if Torres starts by default even on the back of a very poor performance?

Complete bollox fella.

The whole team played s.hit, should they all play as sub the following game ? FFS Gerrard was poor but found himself playing again, why is this because he is a 'World class' player and quite franklt undroppable in his position a bit like Torres, and you dont drop some one like that after a couple of average performances.

Voronin and Kuyt were s.hit Saturday so by your weird theory does this mean Crouch and Torres should start ? Think about it, players do have bad games but dropping them for one poor game, especially when they are the BEST player in that position is utter ludicrous and plain stupid.

Incedently Rafa didnt drop him because of his performance "apparently" it was because he knew Birmingham would defend deep, so read and take on board Ace Ventures post and the fella's above him for a spot opinion for that, page 10 I believe.

So yes Ivor, I think Rafa did make a blunder.

[Judge]

I think we're just going round and round in circles now.

now thats rotation for ya 

[The_Rock]

Was watching football focus and steve mcmahon absolutely bashed rafa apart...

This is a summary of what he said
1)He was in at anfield for the match against birmingham

2)The atmosphere at the stadium was very bad once the fans heard that torres wasn't playing (think he was exaggerating here)

3)After the match, he spoke to a few ex-reds....they were not happy with rafa

4)He spoke to the fans...they were also not happy with rafa..

5)The radio commentators were berating rafa


BTW...all these comments were from Mcmahon...so don't take it out on me.....