Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

So the Thai deal is reportedly on the brink of collapse. Well i'll tell you what, this sorry investment saga is bringing no-one credit.

Firstly the club. It is understandable when confidential negotiations are taking place the club would wish to refrain from commenting. However they have allowed a vacuum to exist over the last few weeks, which has resulted in conjecture and speculation filling the headlines and forming the opinions of the fans.

In this vacuum ideas on the nature of the Thai deal has been formed from snippets of interviews given 6000 miles away by various Thai spokespeople and the Thai PM himself. Similarly the brief statement rejecting the Morgan proposals as "not attractive" was unworthy of our great club and has been accused of misrepresenting Morgan's offer. How long would have taken a spokesman to come up with thirty minute presentation of what all this could mean for the club, to explain the ballpark figures of both deals, without going into confidential details? It has left fans angry and confused, as evidenced by banners against BOTH deals at the season-ending game against Newcastle.

The timing and speed of the deal has received wide criticism. The rush to complete the investment seems perverse at best. We're one of the richest clubs in the world and are more than financially viable. The timing, for what could have been a vital last week of the season, had inconvenience written all over it. Unless of course the timing was deliberate. A lack of games in the summer equals a lack of protests at the most visible outlet a fan can have.

The Thais have confused and frustrated at every turn. The source of funding has seemed to change by the day, starting with the Thai PM investing, then the Government and onto unnamed private and corporate investors. It now seems that the Thaksin deal will be half-funded by a stock issue to private investors and half by a glorified pub raffle for the people of Thailand. It's doubtful tickets will be sold in the pubs of L4. It's almost as if they made the offer and then realised they'd have to sort out a way of funding it. Hardly impressive to Reds.

The Thais should also realise that in repeatedly stating that if LFC turn down their bid they will be investing in another Premiership club, it strengthens already entrenched positions against their bid. Liverpool fans want investors interested in Liverpool Football Club not any old Premiership club. They also exhibit great unease at the mixing of State and sport. What happens if the Thai Government loses the next election and the opposition are uninterested in us?

The coverage in the national press has been a competition in shallowness and nostalgia. One leading journalist pinned a sepia-tinted picture of Bill Shankly to his chest to condemn the Thai deal, and then wrongly attributed the quote from Shankly he had used as the base for his thesis. Another wrapped himself in the comfort blanket of Liverpool as a "family club", a description no fan who has had to deal with the club, and its ticketing structure, on a weekly basis over recent years would recognise. Tea and biscuits and a cosy atmosphere in the press box doesn't make LFC a family club. These were two of the finest sports writers in the country, so you can guess at the quality and paucity of the coverage elsewhere.

The fans, having been so poorly let down by those who should be providing unbiased and accurate information, have mainly fallen into extremes. Scouse v Thai. Progress v inertia. Human rights v Championship Manager spending. David Moores v Houllier sacked. Shinawatra has been caricatured as a diverse range of figures - from Pol Pot to an Asian Richard Branson. Steve Morgan has been glorified as Wacka, the Spirit of Scouse, and vilified as the Robber Baron preying on small shareholders. Reasoned debate has, in general, been thrown out of the window in the rush to judgement on the little information provided.

There are those who have suggested that the fans have no say in the investment issue. That we should sit meekly by and trust the board. Fans do, on the whole, trust the board however it is fundamentally wrong that they should be expected to sit quietly. The fans may not own the club financially (apart from the rare few with shares) but they do own the club both morally and emotionally. When these issues are at stake, and are questioned, they have to speak up. Fans' opinions do matter and should be taken into account, listened to and treated with the respect they deserve.

All the fans are asking for is honesty and openness from all parties. Is that too much when, after 112 years of history, fundamental changes in the club are imminent? I rest my case!

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

The sooner this possible Thai intervention is put to the sword the better ,and Liverpool can start to rebuild. I seriously hope it die's on its ar*e ,Liverpool have never courted controversy why start now? the whole sorry affair has stank from day one and the fact its emanating from Liverpool football club makes it all the more disturbing .

[Santa]

It is also rumoured that with the Thai's proposal, David Moores and the shareholders will be selling part of their shares, and as the majority shareholders, he stand to gain anything around £20+M from this deal and the balance, about £40M will be new share issue and that will go straight into the club. If this is true, it will mean the Thai's proposal will generate significantly less funds for the club compared to Morgan's proposal (where all £70+M will go into the club). That's my understanding. Pease let me know if I am incorrect.

You got to say that all this silence from Moores is unhealthy as it will give the impression that he put personal interest above the club's.

The board has been slow to react on Gerard Houllier's issue, slow in naming his replacement (probably because their hands are tied) and has not come clean on the details of the proposed investments both from Morgan and Thaksin. It's seems like one mess after another. Let's hope they don't screw up on naming the new manager and we get the necessary cash injection for new players.

To hell with the board. Let's make sure we do the right thing on the field.

[banana]

The Thai bid is a farce and should be buried as soon as possible. To finance a share purchase with a state lottery is ridiculous. The only winner will be Shinawatra since he gets a controlling stake in LFC without paying for it.

[Redlester]

Aside from anything else - and all the very valid points made by those who have already posted - the Thai government 's extremely dodgy [to say the least] human rights record is such that this club should never even have considered getting into bed with them - there is an old saying "marry in haste and repent at leisure" and that is precisely what will happen if this deal goes ahead - every time the Thais commit another human rights abuse this club will be inextricably linked with it and its world standing will be diminished not enhanced. OK so Abramovich might have upped the stakes a bit but if chelsea don't deliver he could easily pull his money out again. I'd rather support a less cash rich Liverpool than be unable to support them at all which would certainly be the case if they go ahead with this deal - it makes me feel distinctly quesy in the pit of my stomach

[Leonmc0708]

It is also rumoured that with the Thai's proposal, David Moores and the shareholders will be selling part of their shares, and as the majority shareholders, he stand to gain anything around £20+M from this deal and the balance, about £40M will be new share issue and that will go straight into the club. If this is true, it will mean the Thai's proposal will generate significantly less funds for the club compared to Morgan's proposal (where all £70+M will go into the club). That's my understanding. Pease let me know if I am incorrect.

You got to say that all this silence from Moores is unhealthy as it will give the impression that he put personal interest above the club's.

The board has been slow to react on Gerard Houllier's issue, slow in naming his replacement (probably because their hands are tied) and has not come clean on the details of the proposed investments both from Morgan and Thaksin. It's seems like one mess after another. Let's hope they don't screw up on naming the new manager and we get the necessary cash injection for new players.

To hell with the board. Let's make sure we do the right thing on the field.

You are incorrect.

[ckay]

I has also been reported that Morgan will propose a third bid if the Thai's bid fails, but he won't join a bidding war.

[stmichael]

breaking news is that the thai pm has arrived on merseyside! check out the link below.

http://www.laughfc.co.uk/stories/story.php?id=696

[simic_ie]

[sinema]

The following is a quote from Monday's Times.
Mr Pongsak, the chief Thai negotiator "raised concern over Liverpool's finances, which he said included $4.3 million in cash and $34.7 million in debt but assets of $183.7 million".
"Local Thai news reports have cited unnamed sources as saying that the deal was on the brink of collapse, particularly after Mr Thaksin learnt that the club was running at a loss and had no chance of making a profit"

[stmichael]

A Thai government-linked investment company may set up a trust fund to buy a stake in Liverpool. The proposal by MFC Asset Management is the latest twist in the plan by prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to buy into the Anfield club.

Thaksin's initial plans to raise money through a state lottery were dropped.

MFC is 30% owned by Thailand's Ministry of Finance and the Government Savings Bank while the state-controlled Industrial Finance Corp. of Thailand owns another 24.9%.

For me, this whole saga is getting more complicated and dodgy by the minute.

[Leonmc0708]

I know where your coming from St Mick, but yet another development makes it curiouser and curiouser.....

A Thai media company is preparing to help back Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's bid to buy a stake in Liverpool, according to reports in Thailand and Sky Sports.
Thailand's biggest music company Grammy is ready to help fund Shinawatra's bid for 30 percent stake in the Anfield outfit, by injecting upto £50m of the required £65m needed to purchase a thirty percent stake.

The deal to buy a stake in Liverpool had been set up initially in May, but the agreement was delayed after Shinawatra revealed he would not be using the controversial lottery plan to fund his investment. Thai people were not happy with the idea of him raising his profile thru public money.

Grammy's interest revives Shinawatra's bid which is thought to be in the region of £65 million for a stake in the club.

"We are interested in putting in the bid for Liverpool FC," A Grammy spokeswoman told the Liverpool Echo.

"We are negotiating with other private companies in Thailand to put in an offer.

"We have not yet met (Liverpool chief executive) Rick Parry or other senior representatives of the club but we are planning to send our representative to meet them soon."

Liverpool will be aiming to tie up a deal soon so that a fresh injection of cash can be made available to the club's new manager to make several big-name signings over the summer.

[azriahmad]

The amount of £65 million is the total worth of the bid from the Thais but this involves 2 parts.

One, the Thais buy up a substantial portion of Moores personal shareholding and pay part of the money to Moores.

Two, the Thais then subscribe to a new issue of shares in LFC which will inject another part of the money into LFC.

The Thai due diligence on Liverpool indicated that the club is some £18.9 million in debt with cash of less than £4 million and assets (including players' worth) of over £100 million.

It is true that the Morgan bid is better for the club but the Thai bid is a compromise for the club and Moores because he gets to cash in from diluting his shareholding in LFC and gets back the funds which he personally sank into LFC in partially funding Houllier's transfers in the past, ahile the club also gets some of the funds. Leon, as much as you want to believe that Moores is acting in the best interests of the club, his personal interest also needs to be safeguarded in a sense that he will not get his shareholding in LFC diluted without any compensation. This is why the details of the Thai bid are kept secres whereas Morgan clearly spelt his bid in a press conference.

I have tabulated more details in the "Steve Morgan" thread in the Rectricted Access Forum.