Liverpool FC Forum

[The Ace1983]

Please feel free to slate me for this. Some of you will and you have every right to, but I have to get this off my chest.

I'm depressed. I'm not a reactionist by heart, but 3-0 to Arsenal is just the straw that broke the camel's back. At what point does one stop being a reactionist? Before Arsenal there was Man Utd there was Bolton and Everton as well. You can't be a reactionist after all of this.

I guess we were just kiding ourselves. People were picking Liverpool for the title, Pennant and Bellamy were going to transfer us into true contenders and Gerrard would lead us to silverware beyond our wildest dreams. All of this seems a long time ago now. It's not all bad. We haven't lost at home, we're through to the second round of the European Cup and we beat Reading in the cup. And I'm sure we'll win something this year, but the Premiership is gone again. This isn't the end of the problem though. I know it's still early, but teams like Bolton, Villa and Portsmouth are showing real signs of being able to get into the top four and with Arsenal now tucked up behind the top two, we could have a real fight on our hands to land the fourth spot. If we don't get it... Well, its not worth thinking about because we still have a way to go, but it's now a real possibility.

So, instead of the revelutionary push towards the illusive league crown, we have instead gone backwards. Clean sheets are disappearing, goals are drying up (away from home anyway) and our competetors are getting better. And to make matters worse, Rafa seems to be, momenterily at least, losing his influence. Zenden in the middle over Gerrard? Really? Against Arsenal? How did that ever make sense? I'm not going to get on his back because he's brought us a good amount of trophies in just two years, but I can't be the only one worrying about this.

I tried telling myself that away games to Arsenal, Man Utd, Bolton and even Everton were always going to be tough and that getting this lot in a row was just unfortunate. But not winning one, and getting hammered in the process, and not scoring is just poor and it hurts me to say so. What can be done? A rethink? Back to basics? I don't think any of this will work. We just have to keep trying and hoping, but even this may not work. I hate saying so, but I wish we had cash to throw at the problem in January.

I don't know what the significance of this depressing outpour is, but is anyone else feeling this bad? I don't just mean about the Arsenal match, or the current away situation, but everything else. Is it just me who is seeing a bleak future unless something big changes? Am I over-reacting? Maybe it's just the dissapointment of all that "title" talk going up in smoke, but I'm starting to get really worried. I hope I'm wrong.

[Ciggy]

Anyone who thought we would win the league this season was seriously deluded.

[tubby]

I dont think any Liverpool fan seriously thought we would.

Majority of people who thought so were pundits and media who were just waiting to slate us when they knew days like this would be inevitable.

[Redman in wales]

Anyone who thought we would win the league this season was seriously deluded.

http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=18828

.... the vast majority of posts in this thread in the advanced discussion board thought we did have chance in winning the league

[alessandromagno]

I think we'll finish in the top 4. If not Gerrard will probably go through his usual soul searching. It's possible that the PL is the nut Rafa will never crack--but we have to give him time and wait and see.

[floppo]

I honestly thought that we could win the league this year, I put 20 quid on it at 7-1 and thought that was a good bet. Shows how wrong you can be.

I felt worse though after the Utd game, it seemed as if we din't even try in that game - against our biggest rivals.

The problem for me is that if we don't score the 1st goal in games, we don't win and that's not a good thing. Gerrard looks almost disinterested and only Kuyt of the new players is performing anywhere like we expected.

It's very disappointing and frustrating at the mo, because the title race is over for us and we're left chasing 4th again! and if Platini gets his way, the 4th CL place won't exist soon.

[J*o*n*D*o*e]

i think we hoped more than anything else, plus there is nothing wrong with starting a new season full of optimism.

we all hoped the new signing would work but its becoming increasing clear that the majority of them are just not going to be good enough, now im not saying there not good players but if we realistically want to challenge for the league then we should be signing players that are better than just good.

the money spent in the summer was spread to thin and we probably should of limited ourselves to 2 signings of real quality
we cant expect rafa to build a team capable of winning the league when he has peanuts to spend.

untill the new stadium is sorted out one way or the other i doubt we`ll ever make a realistic challenge

[Hebz]

I agree, but in the first half we looked the better side. I just don't understand how one minute we looked as if we were on an amazing form, and then the next its over and the scores 3-0...

The title race is over, and I've been kidding myself for a while thinking we were going to win it. But the champions league spot is still in our reach, and we'll do everything to gain it. We'll do our best to win the other tournaments and trophies we're involved in too.

It might not be the season of all seasons, but we're Liverpool.

[Redman in wales]

i think we hoped more than anything else, plus there is nothing wrong with starting a new season full of optimism.

we all hoped the new signing would work but its becoming increasing clear that the majority of them are just not going to be good enough, now im not saying there not good players but if we realistically want to challenge for the league then we should be signing players that are better than just good.

the money spent in the summer was spread to thin and we probably should of limited ourselves to 2 signings of real quality
we cant expect rafa to build a team capable of winning the league when he has peanuts to spend.

untill the new stadium is sorted out one way or the other i doubt we`ll ever make a realistic challenge

True. but most of the signings we had to make. I dont mean the choice of player, but the number of players. We lost moro and cisse... we had to bring in 2 more strikers. Kuyt - he is class. Bellamy, good but not good enough, but he was a necessity and we couldnt play 50 games with just 3 strikers as if there's injuries, then we'd be screwed and asking why we didnt buy any back-up stikers like bellamy when we had the chance.

we needed left and right sided players aurelio and gonzo are still adapting and havnt had runs in the first team. gonzo looks like he still has a lot to learn, but could still come good by next year. pennant was 3rd or 4th choice because we couldnt afford anyone we wanted, but at the time it was seen as a must-buy position to fill as back-up to gerrard, or allowing gerrard to play in the middle.

Hind-sight is a wonderful thing. If pennant played for us like he did with brum we wouldnt be slating him so much. the fact is, he just hasnt performed.

All our acquisitions in the summer were seen as neccesity for squad depth and strengthening. Had we not made them and picked up more injuries, people would be complaining that we hadnt made them.

I do agree that 2 quality players, or even 1 quality signing is better than 4 'good' players, but with certain people leaving, we just had to fill those positions.

[fwd_fish]

Money is not the problem.  Did Martin O'Neill need money to sort Villa out?  no.  Some people need to have a reality check and others need a kick up the .  Pathetic

[el_stinger]

The reality is, is that when we approach the big 3 games with a defensive mindset, we automatically resign ourselves to the fact that we cannot win.

What is the point in having players with a winning mentality, when all we are going to do away from home is set up shop, and defend?

Starting Crouch against ARSEnal was a big mistake. Bellamy, sure, his confidence is shot at the mo, but now is not the time to bench him. He needs game time to make it happen, and history suggests that Crouch, Mori and Cissy all had plenty of time to get into a rythm, why is Bellamy not given the same support.

As someone said ^ there, Gonzo will come good. He is a kid, he is learning, and will need game time to develop. Best thing at the moment is that he is having a crack at opposition. He gets his head down and is prepared to take them on in attack, something that we are lacking. The thing he needs to learn is what to do when he is in the position to cross/shoot/pass/hold. With Rafa's constant changing in formation its easy for us to see why there is confusion in the last third of the pitch.

Why did Rafa take Hyypia off last night? He did nothing wrong, and shouldn't be a scapegoat. Zenden was at fault for the first goal, he should have marked much tighter, and Gerrard should have marked Gallas all the way in the third. I really hope Hyypia was injured because there is no other explanation other than game time for Agger. But then again, whats the point in putting the lad on for 10 minutes?

There are too many passengers in the squad at the moment. Too many players waiting for something to happen, and not too many that make it happen. Momo, Gonzo, Kuyt and Bellamy at the moment are the only shining lights in showing some sort of passion, whether it be tracking back or taking the game to the opposition. They should not be flamed because they fail at the last hurdle, they are giving it a shot which is much more than the rest are doing.

I am completely fed up with losing $ at the TAB. I back my team every week, and I put my money where my mouth is. Of course the Title is a distant memory now, as it has been for the last 16 years. But we can see that 4th spot is now dramatically moving away so fast that it will be hard to catch up.

Our away form is disastrous, and its not just to the big 3. The big difference between home and away games is the fact that we take the game to the opposition at home, and we are content to defend away. The 4-5-1 formation does not work, and the insistance to stay with it can only be down to the hard-headedness of Rafa. We can't play like that, and lowly teams have showed that if you take the game to the opposition and boss the game, the big 3 can't cope. Sure you leave yourself open to the counter, but with the defence leaking goals like my grandma's water retention problem, whats the point in sticking with this failed formation?

Back yourselves in boys, you can do much better than your showing us at the moment, and that's the most frustrating part. We know you are better than this, and we expect great things from you. Believe, and anything is possible.

[Leonidas08]

The reality is, is that when we approach the big 3 games with a defensive mindset, we automatically resign ourselves to the fact that we cannot win.

What is the point in having players with a winning mentality, when all we are going to do away from home is set up shop, and defend?

exactly

[Hebz]

Nice thats bang on!

all we have to do is sit back, watch the games and believe, because our boys will come through for us. 4th place here we come

[Leonidas08]

Next 4 games:

Middlesbrough v  Liverpool The Riverside Stadium
Liverpool v  Man City Anfield
Liverpool v  Portsmouth Anfield
Wigan v  Liverpool The JJB Stadium


i believe looking at these 4 games, we can take max points of 12. As well get our goal difference up.

[weringo]

In my time here I have slated just about every player except for the obvious few, Gerrard, Alonso Sissoko etc our consistant performers. However, I have never once said a bad word about Rafa, today imo was not his fault. The reason why Gerrard was on the right was because he is excellent there (usually) and even though he prefers to be there in the centre, we nearly always play better as a midfield with him on the right. Another reason was because Pennant has been awful in just about every game he has played in this season, even against the useless teams. Zenden had looked decent in the past few games so it looked like a decent option to have him and Alonso in the centre. Even if Gerrard had been in the centre I doubt the result would have been much different.

The reason we lost today is because our players didn't believe they could win it, which is surprising as we have strung a few results together between today and the mancs game. We didn't create enough chances and the only player I was relatively happy with was Kuyt but he barely got any service.

The next 11 fixtures are easy and I cant see us drop many points as long as we carry our home form to our away matches, this will boost us back up the table into 3rd/4th spot, remember we are only 4 points behind third. We arent doing too badly compared to our last few seasons if you look at the table and Im sure we will still qualify for the CL no problem.