Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

There was no Manc domination back then.

No because WE WERE DOMINENT then mate

And had been for over a decade when Dalglish took over.

Surely you can see this?

Same thing could be said when Souness took over. Didn't stop him from making a pigs ear of it did it.

Souness was and is a shit manager.

Exactly, but we still managed to win a cup. Just goes to show to win the English League you have to be good, to win a cup any cr@p manager can do that 

That wasn't the point, the point was; the situation Souness inherited was one in which we'd dominated for the previous decade. When Rafa took over, the dynamics of the league were entirely different, and more difficult, and we hadn't been dominating for years. Not to mention that he's had no prior experience of English football.

Souness took over, we went from 1st and 2nd in the two previous seasons to 6th, 6th, 8th.

Rafa's a significantly better manager than Souness.

There are many factors that make the circumstances which Rafa inherited at the club far more difficult than what Souness or even Evans inherited 10-15 years ago. They've been explained before so I shouldn't need to go into them again.

And my point was it doesn't matter how dominant the team had been, a cr@p manager can still make a mess of it. Dalglish was a good manager and has the record to prove it.

Rafa has still to prove that in the premiership, just as Dalglish never proved it in Europe.

Evans wasn't a bad manager and we certainly played more attractive football under him than we have under Rafa.(admittedly less successful)But then again he took over in much more difficult circumstances.

Rafa took over a side that had finished 4th the previous season and had won a glorious treble only a few seasons before, and it was mainly that team that won the CL.

Evans took over a team that was 6th off the bottom.

Come on mate, one look at the pts totals over the last three seasons and it's clear that the bar's been raised (twice over 90pts, once 89?). That'll bear out the Chelsea factor, they dominated the league in a large way down to the fact that Mourinho had silly money to play with, that wasn't the case under Evans' tenure - that is a huge factor to account for. Blackburn spent big, but nowhere near the scale with which Chelsea spent (and continue to) - hence (partly) why Blackburn couldn't sustain their league position. Chelsea raised the bar, the Manc's consistently spent big, and have manager who knows the league inside out, Wenger had been here for years, he also knew the league inside out. The league is quite a bit stronger now than it was when Souness and Evans were managers, partly because of our ban from European competition. The treble was nice, but the UCL win was just a whole new level that we hadn't reached for over two decades.

Dalgish was a very good manager, but equally Rafa's not a sh!t manager, he's done a good job without being outstanding, and the circumstances he inherited were quite tough, not to mention the circumstances he's had to deal with during his tenure (Owen f*cking off, Gerrard mingling with Chelsea twice, a relative lack of funds compared to our rivals, new owners undermining his position). Evans had experience of English football, Rafa had none, I don't think the squad he inherited in 2004 was that good, it was average, and depleted.

Circumstances upon arrival and during a manager's tenure do matter, significantly.

In the event that you reply, I refer you to my previous answers - I can't be arsed to reply  .

[account deleted by request]

When Blackburn won the title, they won it with 89 points in 1995. All the points total means is the best teams have got stronger at the expense of the weaker. Its the points difference that tells the more interesting stories.

I have never thought Rafa is a sh!t manager. I keep saying this...... I just don't like it when people knock our past managers to try to make Rafa look better. He has won the CL and the FA cup, he doesn't need people saying he's a better manager than Shankly etc. (which Lando has said BTW)

If Rafa's not good enough deriding previous managers won't make him look any better and if he is good enough there is no need anyway. I think its reasonable to compare Rafa to Houllier but not Dalglish, Paisley or Shankly.

[ConnO'var]

When Blackburn won the title, they won it with 89 points in 1995. All the points total means is the best teams have got stronger at the expense of the weaker. Its the points difference that tells the more interesting stories.

I have never thought Rafa is a sh!t manager. I keep saying this...... I just don't like it when people knock our past managers to try to make Rafa look better. He has won the CL and the FA cup, he doesn't need people saying he's a better manager than Shankly etc. (which Lando has said BTW)

If Rafa's not good enough deriding previous managers won't make him look any better and if he is good enough there is no need anyway. I think its reasonable to compare Rafa to Houllier but not Dalglish, Paisley or Shankly.

Good post and agree completely.

[red_guy]

If Rafa's not good enough deriding previous managers won't make him look any better and if he is good enough there is no need anyway. I think its reasonable to compare Rafa to Houllier but not Dalglish, Paisley or Shankly.

Yup. On the spot!

[Lando_Griffin]

When Blackburn won the title, they won it with 89 points in 1995. All the points total means is the best teams have got stronger at the expense of the weaker. Its the points difference that tells the more interesting stories.

I have never thought Rafa is a sh!t manager. I keep saying this...... I just don't like it when people knock our past managers to try to make Rafa look better. He has won the CL and the FA cup, he doesn't need people saying he's a better manager than Shankly etc. (which Lando has said BTW)

If Rafa's not good enough deriding previous managers won't make him look any better and if he is good enough there is no need anyway. I think its reasonable to compare Rafa to Houllier but not Dalglish, Paisley or Shankly.

Well I think you'll find I said that to counter the inane ramblings of someone who suggested you measure a manager on their first 3 years.

In that case, Rafa is MILES better than Shankly.

And regarding Dalglish - it's easier to sustain success than to get it in the first place.

I refer you to your "Dalglish signings" post:

Why no mention of the following?:

Barry Venison,

Don Hutchinson,

Steve Harkness,

Alan Irvine,

Mike Hooper,

Nick Tanner,

Barry Jones,

Robbie Holcroft, and

John Durnin?

Is it because they weren't roaring successes?

I am not trying to get at King Kenny - the bloke is a legend. I am merely pointing out that 1.) History tends to be very blinkered and favours the good things, and 2.) Rafa isn't being given a fair comparison by many of the knuckleheads on here.


But I digress.

No-one is ever going to make me believe that Rafa is anything other than a genius. You can all p*ss and whine as much as you like, and you can belittle him all you want.

Just be aware that I will be there, right behind you, p*ssing in your literary ear all the way. 

[whylongball?]

When Blackburn won the title, they won it with 89 points in 1995. All the points total means is the best teams have got stronger at the expense of the weaker. Its the points difference that tells the more interesting stories.

I have never thought Rafa is a sh!t manager. I keep saying this...... I just don't like it when people knock our past managers to try to make Rafa look better. He has won the CL and the FA cup, he doesn't need people saying he's a better manager than Shankly etc. (which Lando has said BTW)

If Rafa's not good enough deriding previous managers won't make him look any better and if he is good enough there is no need anyway. I think its reasonable to compare Rafa to Houllier but not Dalglish, Paisley or Shankly.

Well I think you'll find I said that to counter the inane ramblings of someone who suggested you measure a manager on their first 3 years.

In that case, Rafa is MILES better than Shankly.

And regarding Dalglish - it's easier to sustain success than to get it in the first place.

I refer you to your "Dalglish signings" post:

Why no mention of the following?:

Barry Venison,

Don Hutchinson,

Steve Harkness,

Alan Irvine,

Mike Hooper,

Nick Tanner,

Barry Jones,

Robbie Holcroft, and

John Durnin?

Is it because they weren't roaring successes?

I am not trying to get at King Kenny - the bloke is a legend. I am merely pointing out that 1.) History tends to be very blinkered and favours the good things, and 2.) Rafa isn't being given a fair comparison by many of the knuckleheads on here.


But I digress.

No-one is ever going to make me believe that Rafa is anything other than a genius. You can all p*ss and whine as much as you like, and you can belittle him all you want.

Just be aware that I will be there, right behind you, p*ssing in your literary ear all the way. 

you are damn strong a believer in Rafa 
He's just off form i think. He has class still but still hast a lot to prove in the league. Right now he looks like Houllier in his final year and if he doesnt rectify soon, you won't have the last laugh mate

[account deleted by request]

When Blackburn won the title, they won it with 89 points in 1995. All the points total means is the best teams have got stronger at the expense of the weaker. Its the points difference that tells the more interesting stories.

I have never thought Rafa is a sh!t manager. I keep saying this...... I just don't like it when people knock our past managers to try to make Rafa look better. He has won the CL and the FA cup, he doesn't need people saying he's a better manager than Shankly etc. (which Lando has said BTW)

If Rafa's not good enough deriding previous managers won't make him look any better and if he is good enough there is no need anyway. I think its reasonable to compare Rafa to Houllier but not Dalglish, Paisley or Shankly.

Well I think you'll find I said that to counter the inane ramblings of someone who suggested you measure a manager on their first 3 years.

In that case, Rafa is MILES better than Shankly.

And regarding Dalglish - it's easier to sustain success than to get it in the first place.

I refer you to your "Dalglish signings" post:

Why no mention of the following?:

Barry Venison,

Don Hutchinson,

Steve Harkness,

Alan Irvine,

Mike Hooper,

Nick Tanner,

Barry Jones,

Robbie Holcroft, and

John Durnin?

Is it because they weren't roaring successes?

I am not trying to get at King Kenny - the bloke is a legend. I am merely pointing out that 1.) History tends to be very blinkered and favours the good things, and 2.) Rafa isn't being given a fair comparison by many of the knuckleheads on here.


But I digress.

No-one is ever going to make me believe that Rafa is anything other than a genius. You can all p*ss and whine as much as you like, and you can belittle him all you want.

Just be aware that I will be there, right behind you, p*ssing in your literary ear all the way. 

Which Dalglish signings post ? I haven't mentioned any signings in this thread?

BTW Venison went on to play for England,he also won the league with Liverpool, bought for £200k sold for £250k, Hutchinson went on to play for Scotland, bought for £175k sold for £1.5million, Steve Harkness was a decent player who we signed for £75k and sold for £350k. WTF are you on about Lando?

Alan Irvine we bought for £75k and sold for £100k

John Durnin was a free signing ffs that we sold for £250K

Barry Jones cost £500 not £500k, five hundred pounds AND HOOPER WAS SIGNED BY FAGAN NOT DALGLISH. 

I think the pressure has been a bit more than you could bear mate.   IS THAT REALLY THE BEST YOU COULD DO?

I only need to whisper the words Kuyt mate   

You can believe whatever you want about Rafa being a genius, getting someone to agree with you is another matter entirely

As for Shankly - sometimes its better to be quiet and thought a fool Lando rather than open your mouth and prove it.

PS
Posted 24/1/2008 00:02
#25763
Subject: Benitez to AC Milan 

New User

Posts: 1

Hello. I am New to this forum. I'm an American student studying at Liverpool John Moore's University, I heard a rumour from a friend who works at Anfield that Benitez is going to AC Milan. Done and dusted.

[RedBlood]

Becoz he deserves 2 c what hes buildin here through 2 the end

& he deserves a season without all the thats happenin

In rafa i trust

[LittleHobo]

Becoz he deserves 2 c what hes buildin here through 2 the end

& he deserves a season without all the thats happenin

In rafa i trust

i trust rafa as much as i would trust lando not to eat the last pie in the fridge

[Ciggy]

i trust rafa as much as i would trust lando not to eat the last pie in the fridge

Lando is not fat you know

[DAV]

Why does rafa deserve to see through what he's building or destroying as the case may be. He desreves a season with out all this happening does he, well he has had it. He is paid a load of cash a year to do his job. Like any manger who fails they get sacked

[DAV]

sorry double post cant delete it

[LittleHobo]

i dont want us to turn into newcastle and have a new manager every week, rafa has had a fair crack at the whip, just like houllier did

4 years is a fair amount of time to at least show you are up to the job of turning us into title challengers (i dont even expect us to win it for the next 10 years) we are so behind

i just want a challenge

and rafa has failed to do that

[Judge]

i trust rafa as much as i would trust lando not to eat the last pie in the fridge

Lando is not fat you know

he has a high metabolism, and should be fat 

he still eats all the pies though 

[Lando_Griffin]

When Blackburn won the title, they won it with 89 points in 1995. All the points total means is the best teams have got stronger at the expense of the weaker. Its the points difference that tells the more interesting stories.

I have never thought Rafa is a sh!t manager. I keep saying this...... I just don't like it when people knock our past managers to try to make Rafa look better. He has won the CL and the FA cup, he doesn't need people saying he's a better manager than Shankly etc. (which Lando has said BTW)

If Rafa's not good enough deriding previous managers won't make him look any better and if he is good enough there is no need anyway. I think its reasonable to compare Rafa to Houllier but not Dalglish, Paisley or Shankly.

Well I think you'll find I said that to counter the inane ramblings of someone who suggested you measure a manager on their first 3 years.

In that case, Rafa is MILES better than Shankly.

And regarding Dalglish - it's easier to sustain success than to get it in the first place.

I refer you to your "Dalglish signings" post:

Why no mention of the following?:

Barry Venison,

Don Hutchinson,

Steve Harkness,

Alan Irvine,

Mike Hooper,

Nick Tanner,

Barry Jones,

Robbie Holcroft, and

John Durnin?

Is it because they weren't roaring successes?

I am not trying to get at King Kenny - the bloke is a legend. I am merely pointing out that 1.) History tends to be very blinkered and favours the good things, and 2.) Rafa isn't being given a fair comparison by many of the knuckleheads on here.


But I digress.

No-one is ever going to make me believe that Rafa is anything other than a genius. You can all p*ss and whine as much as you like, and you can belittle him all you want.

Just be aware that I will be there, right behind you, p*ssing in your literary ear all the way. 

Which Dalglish signings post ? I haven't mentioned any signings in this thread?

BTW Venison went on to play for England,he also won the league with Liverpool, bought for £200k sold for £250k, Hutchinson went on to play for Scotland, bought for £175k sold for £1.5million, Steve Harkness was a decent player who we signed for £75k and sold for £350k. WTF are you on about Lando?

Alan Irvine we bought for £75k and sold for £100k

John Durnin was a free signing ffs that we sold for £250K

Barry Jones cost £500 not £500k, five hundred pounds AND HOOPER WAS SIGNED BY FAGAN NOT DALGLISH. 

I think the pressure has been a bit more than you could bear mate.   IS THAT REALLY THE BEST YOU COULD DO?

I only need to whisper the words Kuyt mate   

You can believe whatever you want about Rafa being a genius, getting someone to agree with you is another matter entirely

As for Shankly - sometimes its better to be quiet and thought a fool Lando rather than open your mouth and prove it.

PS
Posted 24/1/2008 00:02
#25763
Subject: Benitez to AC Milan 

New User

Posts: 1

Hello. I am New to this forum. I'm an American student studying at Liverpool John Moore's University, I heard a rumour from a friend who works at Anfield that Benitez is going to AC Milan. Done and dusted.

Funny that, as it's here as plain as day that Dalglish bought him:

Dalglish's signings

Funny also, that he made a profit - that couldn't be because of the vast amounts of time that passed and the inception of Sky's money, could it?

"Dirk Kuyt" is a Dutch International. What is your point exactly?


And don't f*cking condescend to me - if you can't read simple English and decipher the meaning for yourself, it's YOU whom is the fool.

I thought it was pretty f*cking obvious that I retaliated to some dumb punk ages ago who said "Wenger is a better manager because he won the double in his second season". "Ergo", said I, "This means that, by your logic, Benitez is a better manager than Shankly and Ferguson."

Do we understand this concept now? Have we finished trying to belittle me by using misunderstood information?

Because I'm here - if that's what you wish to attempt.