Liverpool FC Forum

[Leonmc0708]

Gotta say, as an OOT, but an OOT since the mid-Seventies, this 'We're not English, we're Scouse' thing is obviously something I can't understand - I'm not a scouser, how could I?

So before the mid seventies you where a scouser ?

But while I'm a big fan of scousers (the wit and warmth of being on the terraces with them/you lot in the 80s will live with me forever) a lot of the good fans I met weren't local lads, and it does drive a wedge through our support, in and outside the ground. Some of the hardliners who've been accused of hijacking the Reclaim the Kop movement would obviously be happy with this sentiment, and a whole load of fans – both scouse and OOT – would probably not go along with it.

You are a big fan of the scouser ? Well we are really honoured that you like us, thanks and thanks for following our football team and coming in to our poor little city twice a month and spending your money and helping our poor economy.

Please tell me who the hardliners are as well ? People who support the club want to imptove the atmosphere and educate newer fans in the ways of LFC, Scouse and the Kop. Its not the Gestapo lad.

My real point is, it's just a bit sad, a bit sad in a self-satisfied minority way. A bit sad in the same way as the 'Geordie nation' bolox whipped up by Sir John Hall in the mid-1990s, and taken on by every sobbing member of the Toon Army who sensed a TV camera panning their way in those momentous 4-3s, or when they threw away the title to Utd.

I think you dont understand the point. ITs a few things, and I will summarise:

1) ITs about the persecution and problems Scousers suffered at the hands of the Thatcher led governments of the 80's.

2) Its about the prejudice of EVERY other city outside Liverpool and the theiving scousers image

3) Its also about our dislike of the England team and FA following coutless injuries to our best players, and the treatment players like John Barnes (John fuc.king Barnes!!) received at the hands of the southern softies who follow England

4) ITs a dis-association of the "Chav" idiot England football following with the earings, tattoos and No Surrender songs.

God hope we don't ever become as sad as that lot.

If we never played a game of football again and the World ended in 3045 Newcastle would never get within 100 miles of our history.

But the best word on it comes from this post on 365:


'And finally, please, for the love of God, give the whole "we're not English, we're Scouse" attitude a rest. It's meaningless. Scousers are not some kind of master race you know, you're English. If you don't want to be, then stop playing in the Premiership, which I think we can all agree is an English competition. Stop going on about being the most successful club in England. Stop paying taxes to the English government and stop claiming benefits. Otherwise, accept you're English, and just stop being so f**king tedious and precious'

Right, I'm just off to be fitted for a nice tin hat…

Clearly you where fishing from your last comment, but forums like 365 are EXACTLY the reason we are not English.

[AB's Red Army]

This is madness...

This is LFC-Newkit!

I think you dont understand the point. ITs a few things, and I will summarise:

1) ITs about the persecution and problems Scousers suffered at the hands of the Thatcher led governments of the 80's.

2) Its about the prejudice of EVERY other city outside Liverpool and the theiving scousers image

3) Its also about our dislike of the England team and FA following coutless injuries to our best players, and the treatment players like John Barnes (John fuc.king Barnes!!) received at the hands of the southern softies who follow England

4) ITs a dis-association of the "Chav" idiot England football following with the earings, tattoos and No Surrender songs.

Well said, and this is why I perfectly understand to why Scousers disassociate themselves with England. Yet I'm an OOTER, so there's no excuse to why others can't comprehend this.

[murphy0151]

being proud of where you come from is no bad thing

but thinking less of people because they come from a different area is stupid and ignorant

What about mancs?

[Wilhelmsson]

Please tell me who the hardliners are as well ? People who support the club want to imptove the atmosphere and educate newer fans in the ways of LFC, Scouse and the Kop. Its not the Gestapo lad.

It’s a positive thing that the older Liverpool fans are choosing to educate younger fans on the traditions and customs which make the club great. Though I take exception to being patronised and spoken down to which I feel has happened with this Reclaim the Kop campaign and other such campaigns which have taken place as of late.

As I have said in another topic in the ‘General Chat’ section of the forums, I have found through experience that Anfield isn’t always the most welcoming of venues to people who do not hail from the clubs home city.

This needs to change if the Scouse population of the clubs fan base want us non locals to comply with such campaigns which have been created to recapture the atmosphere of old.

I think you dont understand the point. ITs a few things, and I will summarise:

1) ITs about the persecution and problems Scousers suffered at the hands of the Thatcher led governments of the 80's.

2) Its about the prejudice of EVERY other city outside Liverpool and the theiving scousers image

3) Its also about our dislike of the England team and FA following coutless injuries to our best players, and the treatment players like John Barnes (John fuc.king Barnes!!) received at the hands of the southern softies who follow England

4) ITs a dis-association of the "Chav" idiot England football following with the earings, tattoos and No Surrender songs.

Liverpool did indeed suffer under the Thatcher government, as did most working class people of the country (esp those in industrial careers). Liverpool didn’t suffer alone in the Thatcher era, a lot of adults and children from all regions, cities and towns in England suffered at the hands of free market economics and policies designed to discriminate against the majority in favour of the minority.

Liverpudlians also stereotype about other cities around the country, for example your ‘southern soft lad and chav’ comments are stereotypes in themselves.

How do you mean the treatment of John Barnes? Are you mentioning the racist abuse he suffered during his playing career? Didn’t Liverpool fans also take an exception to his skin colour? I read somewhere that a Liverpool fan threw a banana at Barnes during a match.

'Chavs' exist everywhere, I’ve seen them in Southend, I’ve seen them in Manchester and I’ve seen them in Liverpool. You seem to be the spokesperson for Scousers, I am sure there are Scousers who follow England over land and sea.

[Lando_Griffin]

What I don't understand, is this:

How anyone can abuse the heck out of opposition players in the league, then cheer them on when they pull on an England top.

It's hypocritical, it's pathetic, and it's down right f*cking wrong.

No way on God's earth could I cheer Neville, Fat c*nting Rooney, Carrick, Hargreaves, "JT", Hair-lip Steve (Ferdinand, the coke-snorting b*stard), Fat f*cking Frank, and any other Manc/Sh*tski/Bitter c*nt, even if the feckers had just won the World cup single-handed.

No thankyou. Not f*cking likely.

Until Liverpool becomes a republic you're country (England) is represented in international football by a team that (unfortunately for you) is not comprised of 11 scousers, but come to think of it neither is the club we follow.

If the "we're scouse not english"  attitude was expanded to a larger stage are we to assume that if England was under attack scousers would not support our armed forces because 99.9% of them weren't scouse ? (like LFC)

This siege mentality adopted by many so called scousers is juvenile and embarrassing and not that far away from the fanatics who declared that they would put their religion before country and were then immediately castigated by many of the "scousers" who inhabit this forum.

Our club captain, more scouse in his fractured toe than half the t'ossers in here doesn't have a problem playing for and supporting England , vent your spleen on the rest of the team if you like but at least have the sense to support one of yer own.

Finally

We are not English we're scouse. If you don't want to be part of that then fine, but don't tell us what we're doing is wrong when you couldn't possibly understand.

Adamnbarret, you're sixteen years old , hardly the time for you to be telling anybody what it means to be scouse.

Im sorry but your post is a load of bullshit. We didn't say in order for us to support a team they need to be scouse. You said yourself that not even Liverpool is full of scousers and we support liverpool obviously, so i dunno where the fuck that came from.

Then you go on to say about us not supporting the arm forces because there not scouse. They go out there, risking there lives in order not only liverpool but the whole of Britain to be safe and for our privilege of free will. Of course were gonna support them. And i am sure that there are scousers in the army, many infact. It's as though your saying we want them to fail because the majority aren't scouse. Bollocks!

Then you say it is embarrassing and then you compare us to the fanatics who put religion before there country. I'm sorry, but are you expecting the fucking Scouse version of the IRA, maybe the SRA, and cause a fucking war in our country, then you sir are an idiot.

Lastly you say Gerrard doesnt have a problem playing for england. Maybe thats because he has no other choice. Or maybe its because he is a true professional and wants to play as much football as he can, which if i was in his shoes i would wanting to be doing also. Plus Gerrard was born in huyton, thats very hardcore scouse that mate. So don't go shouting the odds assuming that people on here aren't scousers when you don't have a clue.

I am disappointed with you woof i thought you was a good man who knew his football but your opinions on this topic are a load of shit.

Well i'm glad you got that of your chest . Before you continue your rant you may wish to consider that the the post was addressed to the "We're not English We're Scouse" comment in general and Lando's obsevation that he couldn't support England because

No way on God's earth could I cheer Neville, Fat c*nting Rooney, Carrick, Hargreaves, "JT", Hair-lip Steve (Ferdinand, the coke-snorting b*stard), Fat f*cking Frank, and any other Manc/Sh*tski/Bitter c*nt, even if the feckers had just won the World cup single-handed.

Of course if any of the above mentioned individuals had for example been playing for Liverpool they'd all be great players .

Perhaps i'm just tired of the narrow minded b'ullshit that is continually spouted by so called scousers in this forum and elsewhere.

Some of the comments are more suited to a sectarian Belfast lodge meeting .

I'm born in Liverpool , raised an Englishman and proud of ALL of it  .If you don't like it or are disappointed in me then SUCK IT UP, 'cause I don't really give a f'uck what the poorly educated morally bereft too blind to see think about me.

Look Woof - f*ck knows why you're on your high horse over this - it's a matter of opinions, not facts.

I personally cannot abuse someone when they play for Man U, then cheer them when they play for England. If you can, that's your perogative.

In my mind, that's hypocrisy, plain and simple.

[Lando_Griffin]

i dont wanna see england winning anything because it means manure players get to share the prize. not fair. liverpool first, england later.

This is a childish sentiment to behold and believe it or not, not every footballer can play for Liverpool. I’ll support the likes of Neville, JT and Robinson when they play for England as they are representing my country.

In club terms, I’ll wish them the very worst for the season as it will mean Liverpool being successful. I am able to juggle between the two. When it’s time to support Liverpool, I’ll support Liverpool and when it is time to support England, I’ll support England.

But that's more a reflection of your scruples than your love of the England team.

[Lando_Griffin]

I can't help but notice that most of those who have a problem with this are from the south...

(Please note that I am not scouse - I live over 100 miles from Anfield - but I do understand and agree with the mentality of the scousers who distance themselves from the England setup.)

[Leonmc0708]

I can't help but notice that most of those who have a problem with this are from the south...

(Please note that I am not scouse - I live over 100 miles from Anfield - but I do understand and agree with the mentality of the scousers who distance themselves from the England setup.)

Glad someone else pointed that out, I wanted to but its no coincidence.

Next topic will be why we call ourselves scousers and why we dont just call ourselves English. And the accent, whats that all about. While we are at it, Red ? Lets play in a different colour, how about the England kit ?

   O F F

[adamnbarrett]

I can't help but notice that most of those who have a problem with this are from the south...

(Please note that I am not scouse - I live over 100 miles from Anfield - but I do understand and agree with the mentality of the scousers who distance themselves from the England setup.)

Glad someone else pointed that out, I wanted to but its no coincidence.

Next topic will be why we call ourselves scousers and why we dont just call ourselves English. And the accent, whats that all about. While we are at it, Red ? Lets play in a different colour, how about the England kit ?

   O F F

is right 

[RedorDead]

I can't help but notice that most of those who have a problem with this are from the south...

(Please note that I am not scouse - I live over 100 miles from Anfield - but I do understand and agree with the mentality of the scousers who distance themselves from the England setup.)

Glad someone else pointed that out, I wanted to but its no coincidence.

Next topic will be why we call ourselves scousers and why we dont just call ourselves English. And the accent, whats that all about. While we are at it, Red ? Lets play in a different colour, how about the England kit ?

   O F F

I'm a "southern softie" as we so often get labelled, a little narrow mindedly in my opinion. Are all southerners soft? Are all Scousers thieves? No, I thought not.
I find it a little hypocritical to have a pop at the "Scouse thieves" label and then do the same yourself by labelling other parts of the country.
I love Liverpool Football Club. I have since I can remember, I have shed tears of sadness and tears of joy and pride over our club and it's players' efforts over the years in maintaining our heritage and history and unique qualities as a football club.
I think that is what seperates OOT's from the scouse fans. OOT's love the football club only, yes they may have a fondness for scousers in that we all love the same football club, and yes we may have affection for the beautiful city of Liverpool BUT OOt's can never know what it is to BE scouse.
Years of identity through generation upon generation moulds people who live in cities with such strong identities. Scousers, Mancs, Geordies and yes even Cockney's....all have their own identity and while they are all English they are generally more proud of their local identity. And why not? A scouser born and bred on the street of Toxteth knows only Liverpudlians. He lives with scousers, he goes to school and then works with scousers and every saturday on the terrace he hugs scousers next to him when the club scores a goal. Why should he put that behind a love for England?
I don't know what it is to be scouse, but I do know what it is to be proud of your roots. I am a half dutch so as well as being a softie I am a clog wearing tulip muncher too!! But I am proud of my dutch roots and follow Ajax and the dutch national team. I have always cheered Holland over England, that is how I was brought up with a patriotic Dutch mum and while cheer England I am not a fan of the set at all, not since 1990 have I been really proud of the English football team.
I don't really know what point I am making but basically it is that we are all proud of who we are and where we come from, if some so called "hardliners" wish to take that further by slagging everyone else around them so as to make themselves seem superior then that is their choice, a pretty narrow minded and bigoted choice but good luck to em.
I am a proud OOt'er, i don't wish I was scouse, I am proud of how and where i grew up and I am also very proud to support the best football team in the world...which les face it, we all have in common.

[Leonmc0708]

I'm a "southern softie" as we so often get labelled, a little narrow mindedly in my opinion. Are all southerners soft? Are all Scousers thieves? No, I thought not.
I find it a little hypocritical to have a pop at the "Scouse thieves" label and then do the same yourself by labelling other parts of the country.

Irony, look it up in the dictionary sunshine.

[Leonmc0708]

But I am proud of my dutch roots and follow Ajax and the dutch national team. I have always cheered Holland over England, that is how I was brought up with a patriotic Dutch mum and while cheer England I am not a fan of the set at all, not since 1990 have I been really proud of the English football team.

You see, thats what I cant understand.

Please dont take offence, I mean none, but I have only got room in my heart for one team, and they play in all red.

[Leonmc0708]

Another reason we are not English but scouse - booing your own team.

Crouch cus he was ugly ?

Bentley cus he was tired ?

English fans = gobsh.ites - FACT

[woof woof !]

Look Woof - f*ck knows why you're on your high horse over this - it's a matter of opinions, not facts.

         

Yeah mate , lets not stick to the facts , lets just go with opinions , after all , like a'rseholes , everybody's got one.

LMAO   

[kazza]

Funny thing is this attitude only seems to extend to the fans and not the players. Local Liverpool players always jump at the chance to play for England.

Abuse United players when they play for United and cheer them when they play for England... Well professional football players do it all the time, just ask Gerrard, Owen even JC (he does not want to play internationals anymore but he tried his whole career), and all other "scouse" players that were good enough to play for England. None of them said they were scouse not English. In the late 70's almost the whole of the English team played for Liverpool.

Most of this is cr@p because if England won the World Cup (mind you that seems unlikely   ) all of Liverpool would celebrate dispite what many say now. I am sure everyone who remembers celebrated in '66 and there were a few united players in that team.