Liverpool FC Forum

[The_Rock]

I've no problems with Kitson's name being thrown in. It's another name for us to chew over, some may not think he's up to it, some may think he is. Isn't that the point of this place, to exchange opinions? We've seen over the years how little clubs produce gems, Steve Finnan came from a mickey mouse side in Fulham and he's proven to be a loyal servant to the club without really being exceptional, maybe Kitson could do the same. I personally think he's a decent player, links up well and can pop up with the odd goal. If it was a toss up between him and Kuyt, I'd take Kitson. If it was a toss up between him and Crouch then I'd stick with Crouch.

Not bein funny like John but whats the point in even talking about Kitson hes not in the Liverpool class mate . Ive just been watching the Rezzies and a good shout has to go out for Nemeth, outstanding I would actually rate him better than Kitson and he will defo be included in with the big boys next season

Do you rate nemeth better than Kuyt ?

[The_Rock]

One more point I'd like to make, everyone is saying about Chelsea this and Chelsea that, well unless I watch a different Liverpool side to rest of you, I saw Liverpool dominante 180 minutes against Chelsea this year in the league.

Thats because of average gant...... If mourinho was still at chelsea...they would have won the league cup and be leading the premier league now.....

Yeah money is not the only stuff....but it does help a club if they have a sh1t load of it....

its a combination ...good manager  + good players + $$$ = you are the champ.

Setanta flashed up some numbers during the Chelsea-Boro game the other day showing that Grant's record is actually much better than Mourinho's over the same number of games.  I can't remember what timeframe they were comparing but the numbers were staggering.  The Count's got it spectacularly wrong on occasion--the Carling Cup for instance--but he's actually done a very good job of keeping them on course and the egos relatively happy since Mourinho left.

Average Gant is just continuing what "Jose the great" started.... Mourinho has laid strong foundations at chelsea.

Just check out how average gant performs in the big matches.....he is no match for mourinho.

It has come to a situation where even the players don't respect him and have started calling the shots and how they should play (tactics and all)....

[maguskwt]

this a forum, which surely means people should be able to express there opinion without being slaughtered for it. Agree or disagree with someone's opinion doesn't matter, but it's an opinion. As least he's expressing opinions rather than some who don't have an opinion of their own. None of us are scouts for clubs, but most of us have opinions on players, does that mean we're wrong as well?

sure... express ur opinion... no one's asking anyone not to... I will be expressing my opinion as well... but if you slag someone off and act as some know-it-all then expect to get some backlash and criticism... nothing new I guess... it's all a normal day at an internet forum 

I don't see any backlash and critisism, I see a bunch of cryers moaning and complaining that someone knows better than they do and backs arguements up.

right... you sure "back up" your arguments...  ...

"hey!... don't argue with me, I can tell how good a player really is after watching 10 mins!"

"hey!... a player never develops into a better player with experience! it's a pathetic excuse!"

"hey! I know everything! I'm a player myself!"



  nice one...

[66-1112520797]

Kitson could do it at any level, obviously he'd have to learn extra tactical discipline's but he's an excellent forward with alot of good attributes, he drops deep well and links play well aswell as being good with his back to goal, he's a similar level of player to Ashton but different, he's more mobile while still having a good (not as good as Ashton) physical presence, I also think he'd be more suited to playing along side Torres, he can also link well with midfiielders which would help get alot out of Gerrard.

Some people want you banned again, but with comedy input like this, I think you should stay lad.

He talks more football on here than you do sarcasm ..... lad.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing ?

He puts more input into this forum where football is concerned  than you do. The people who "want him banned" are either a figment of your immagination, or quite simply put 'interent fairys'

I dont agree with everything he says, infacy sometimes I think he chatsa b0llocks, but on the whole he is a good football poster, something your good sekf would do well to to listen from. 

Agreed mate, I have a new-found respect for GBJH's posts. His input is constructive, well thought out and he brings an entirely new dimension to the forum. Vive le GBJH!

Im talking about Stu, not the controversial GBJH.

[66-1112520797]

I agree nanny, I've made it no secret I'd rather see youngsters given a go rather than mickey mouse players.

I wouldnt say that fella, you may have some Canadian popping in to tell you like he did me ' your one of THOSE Brits' 

Those meaning : Racist

[Leonmc0708]

Kitson could do it at any level, obviously he'd have to learn extra tactical discipline's but he's an excellent forward with alot of good attributes, he drops deep well and links play well aswell as being good with his back to goal, he's a similar level of player to Ashton but different, he's more mobile while still having a good (not as good as Ashton) physical presence, I also think he'd be more suited to playing along side Torres, he can also link well with midfiielders which would help get alot out of Gerrard.

Some people want you banned again, but with comedy input like this, I think you should stay lad.

He talks more football on here than you do sarcasm ..... lad.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing ?

He puts more input into this forum where football is concerned  than you do. The people who "want him banned" are either a figment of your immagination, or quite simply put 'interent fairys'

I dont agree with everything he says, infacy sometimes I think he chatsa b0llocks, but on the whole he is a good football poster, something your good sekf would do well to to listen from. 

(soory about my poor English, I've been learning Chinese Mandarin and getting conmuddled up.)

Please forgive me.

[66-1112520797]

Kitson could do it at any level, obviously he'd have to learn extra tactical discipline's but he's an excellent forward with alot of good attributes, he drops deep well and links play well aswell as being good with his back to goal, he's a similar level of player to Ashton but different, he's more mobile while still having a good (not as good as Ashton) physical presence, I also think he'd be more suited to playing along side Torres, he can also link well with midfiielders which would help get alot out of Gerrard.

Some people want you banned again, but with comedy input like this, I think you should stay lad.

He talks more football on here than you do sarcasm ..... lad.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing ?

He puts more input into this forum where football is concerned  than you do. The people who "want him banned" are either a figment of your immagination, or quite simply put 'interent fairys'

I dont agree with everything he says, infacy sometimes I think he chatsa b0llocks, but on the whole he is a good football poster, something your good sekf would do well to to listen from. 

(soory about my poor English, I've been learning Chinese Mandarin and getting conmuddled up.)

Please forgive me.

No can do, Mr Mod.

[Leonmc0708]

Kitson could do it at any level, obviously he'd have to learn extra tactical discipline's but he's an excellent forward with alot of good attributes, he drops deep well and links play well aswell as being good with his back to goal, he's a similar level of player to Ashton but different, he's more mobile while still having a good (not as good as Ashton) physical presence, I also think he'd be more suited to playing along side Torres, he can also link well with midfiielders which would help get alot out of Gerrard.

Some people want you banned again, but with comedy input like this, I think you should stay lad.

He talks more football on here than you do sarcasm ..... lad.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing ?

He puts more input into this forum where football is concerned  than you do. The people who "want him banned" are either a figment of your immagination, or quite simply put 'interent fairys'

I dont agree with everything he says, infacy sometimes I think he chatsa b0llocks, but on the whole he is a good football poster, something your good sekf would do well to to listen from. 

(soory about my poor English, I've been learning Chinese Mandarin and getting conmuddled up.)

Please forgive me.

No can do, Mr Mod.

Then I will just have o sulk all the way to Landahn Tarn.

[NANNY RED]

I've no problems with Kitson's name being thrown in. It's another name for us to chew over, some may not think he's up to it, some may think he is. Isn't that the point of this place, to exchange opinions? We've seen over the years how little clubs produce gems, Steve Finnan came from a mickey mouse side in Fulham and he's proven to be a loyal servant to the club without really being exceptional, maybe Kitson could do the same. I personally think he's a decent player, links up well and can pop up with the odd goal. If it was a toss up between him and Kuyt, I'd take Kitson. If it was a toss up between him and Crouch then I'd stick with Crouch.

Not bein funny like John but whats the point in even talking about Kitson hes not in the Liverpool class mate . Ive just been watching the Rezzies and a good shout has to go out for Nemeth, outstanding I would actually rate him better than Kitson and he will defo be included in with the big boys next season

Do you rate nemeth better than Kuyt ?

When you are all grown up ill answer that one, I was comparing Kitson to Nemeth,

Erm who does Kitson play for, cause im sure the other lad plays for a team in the quarter final of the champions league theres you answer

[RedBlood]

while is that pile of sh.it kitson being discussed on a liverpool forum anyway?
hes way below our standards

[Owzat]

Crouch and Pennant have been mistreated by Benitez. Anderson has the ability to be a top right winger next year and like I've already said only time will tell with Skrtel.

Others will say Garcia, Benayoun, Kuyt, Sissoko and a fair few others shouldn't be on the list, when in truth they should be.

I don't know if Benitez needs to spot talent more because he's brought some in talent, just his squad players need to be better. The likes of Benayoun and Intandje and Bellamy. This is what he needs to work on. We've got a good set of players to start games but little else off the bench or to come in. This is where his transfers have failed, to many squad players who aren't up to the task.

Crouch and Kuyt have failed to score enough goals, it is therefore reasonable to say they are flops. And you can't say Crouch hasn't had a chance, he played 49 games out of 58 in 05/06 and scored only 18 goals with is admittedly a little better than his overall 3 goals for every 10 games.

If Sissoko and Luis Garcia shouldn't be on that list then they'd still be at the club. Luis Garcia scored some crucial goals, but not enough to ignore that he wasn't good enough. Anderson hasn't made enough starts and I seriously doubt he ever will, like Carson he may be a good player but Liverpool players need to break into the first XI squad pronto or find themselves surplus as Carson did.

Anyone can nitpick over the contents of any such list, but to be fair to that list there are VERY FEW that definitely shouldn't be on that list and perhaps that reflects the point better than saying such and such was "mistreated" or "such and such has potential". Skrtel is the one truly controversial name on that list, the man who is so bad he's played 9 of our last 15 games.

I would take exception with the use of the word "useless", some simply didn't work out and others were let go (Fowler) without ever getting a chance - and you say Crouch is "mistreated" !

Fowler

13 goals in 37 appearances (0.351 goals/app)
13 goals in 1798 minutes (138 mins/goal, 49 mins/app)

Crouch

39 goals in 130 appearances (0.300 goals/app)
39 goals in 7592 minutes (195 mins/goal, 58 mins/app)

So Crouch has scored three times as many goals as Fowler did on his return, but he spent FOUR times as long on the pitch. We could have got a fee for Crouch, we didn't for Fowler. Fowler would have been happy playing fourth striker, Crouch certainly isn't happy being left out and frankly Fowler is the much better players even allowing for injuries

[maypaxvobiscum]

Crouch and Pennant have been mistreated by Benitez. Anderson has the ability to be a top right winger next year and like I've already said only time will tell with Skrtel.

Others will say Garcia, Benayoun, Kuyt, Sissoko and a fair few others shouldn't be on the list, when in truth they should be.

I don't know if Benitez needs to spot talent more because he's brought some in talent, just his squad players need to be better. The likes of Benayoun and Intandje and Bellamy. This is what he needs to work on. We've got a good set of players to start games but little else off the bench or to come in. This is where his transfers have failed, to many squad players who aren't up to the task.

Crouch and Kuyt have failed to score enough goals, it is therefore reasonable to say they are flops. And you can't say Crouch hasn't had a chance, he played 49 games out of 58 in 05/06 and scored only 18 goals with is admittedly a little better than his overall 3 goals for every 10 games.

If Sissoko and Luis Garcia shouldn't be on that list then they'd still be at the club. Luis Garcia scored some crucial goals, but not enough to ignore that he wasn't good enough. Anderson hasn't made enough starts and I seriously doubt he ever will, like Carson he may be a good player but Liverpool players need to break into the first XI squad pronto or find themselves surplus as Carson did.

Anyone can nitpick over the contents of any such list, but to be fair to that list there are VERY FEW that definitely shouldn't be on that list and perhaps that reflects the point better than saying such and such was "mistreated" or "such and such has potential". Skrtel is the one truly controversial name on that list, the man who is so bad he's played 9 of our last 15 games.

I would take exception with the use of the word "useless", some simply didn't work out and others were let go (Fowler) without ever getting a chance - and you say Crouch is "mistreated" !

Fowler

13 goals in 37 appearances (0.351 goals/app)
13 goals in 1798 minutes (138 mins/goal, 49 mins/app)

Crouch

39 goals in 130 appearances (0.300 goals/app)
39 goals in 7592 minutes (195 mins/goal, 58 mins/app)

So Crouch has scored three times as many goals as Fowler did on his return, but he spent FOUR times as long on the pitch. We could have got a fee for Crouch, we didn't for Fowler. Fowler would have been happy playing fourth striker, Crouch certainly isn't happy being left out and frankly Fowler is the much better players even allowing for injuries

oh come on
we didnt need stats to figure fowler is better 

[stmichael]

It is impossible to call who we will buy in the summer but we all are very clear of the positions where we are weak. One major problem this summer is inflated transfers after Euro 2008.

for all the people suggesting names and signings this is a wake up call, please read this analysis carefully and realise it's not so simple.

i've done an analysis on all players LFC have signed from Premier League clubs in the last 10-12 years

Yossi Benayoun 5m
Jermaine Pennant 6.7m
Craig Bellamy 6m
Peter Crouch 7m
Steve Finnan 3.5m
Harry Kewell 5m
Abel Xavier 750k
Chris Kirkland 6m
Daniel Sjolund 1m
Nick Barmby 6m
Stephane Henchoz 3.5m
Dietmar Hamann 8m
Emile Heskey 11m

that's about £70m worth of 'Premier League proven' talent (5.4m average)

5 are still with us (none of whom have consistently made the starting line up), of the 8 no longer with us Hamann and Henchoz (7 years and 5 years) were the longest servants but the average premier league proooven talent is committed to Anfield for around 3 seasons

now I know we've had some shocking imports in that time as well but our hit rate from buying players from other Premier League teams is generally not good, basically i'd say 1 in 7, that is we buy 7 players until we have a successful signing from another prem team that has a lasting and long impact, meaning it has cost us £35m to strike gold each time (and both were defensive players).

infact, looking through the list of players we have never signed one decent, successful, lasting attacking player from a premier league club in 15+ years, Stan Collymore 8.5m from Forest lasted 2 years.

Our best attacking players either came through the academy or were bought and sourced abroad, though obviously there were a high number of failures there too.

I think we ought to learn from our past mistakes otherwise we're doomed to repeat them, if we do sign a so called attacking player from a Premier League club it could be very costly.

Everyone thinks they're a transfer expert or have an eye for a bargain but have a look through our sorry history of transfers in the Premier League era and you quickly realise how difficult it has been for us, especially when buying from other Premier League clubs.

This is no slight on the good natured posters on here who I love to read and debate with, our own highly paid manager, scouts etc. have regularly wasted vast sums of money and club resources over the years thinking they found a domestic bargain , particularly annoying is the dross we acquire from relegated clubs.

I would also add attacking players are a particular problem and require the deepest scrutiny, debate and analysis, undoubtedly for me the best in numerous years have been Torres, Garcia and um, THAT's it.. too early to judge Babel though as a Liverpool attacking signing in recent years to score 8 goals is considered a massive achievement

the lesson is.... if we want to sign an attacking player he has to be deemed really special and well above average or he is doomed to failure and we're wasting serious money (we need to stop making several 5-10m purchases and just go for the blow out quality because not doing so costs us that anyway and probably much more), if you want to sign any old player from a premier league club there is probably a 15% chance that they will be a long and lasting success.

so think carefully about that next time you think such and such would be a bargain or well worth the x million pounds, the likelyhood is they will NEVER be.

what would be the best advice? just buy players from abroad, yes there's failures but there's also a lot of success and in attacking terms, a few successes

[god_bless_john_houlding]

well to be honest stmichael, we can all make stats say what we like.

I can make those stats say that Crouch, Hamman, Henchoz, Finnan and Pennant have been good buys. This is why I don't buy into stats and figures, alls they say is what you want them to. We may not have a great record of transfers from these shores (in recent years) but maybe that's because we're buying the wrong people and that has to come down to the manager(s) and their inability to find a lad with quality from the premiership.

[Toffeehater]

Well we've Torres now, a player far better than Anelka.

Yes and we've also got Crouch, Voronin, Kuyt and Babel. Players not fit to lace Anelka's boots.

Torres is amazing, he's absoloutely world class and one of the best in the world... but he can't make up for other players not being good enough.

fair point abt voronin and crouch but babel in that catogery , i'd like to know why and its just his first season here and he hasn't done half bad , just his crossing is below standard but he has been our best winger since kewell in his first season and he has done a good job , 3 assist in the league and i think 8 goals is good for a debut season