Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

... well that's how i see it anyway...

Well you're wrong then 

[god_bless_john_houlding]

... well that's how i see it anyway...

Well you're wrong then 

[JoeTerp]

Kuyt and Babel, who aren't exactly in a position yet to know they're not being dropped because of a rest, will dent their confidence. Even if it's ever so slightly, it'll still be dented.

what could be more damaging is Knowing days in advance that no matter what you do, you will NOT be playing at the weekend.  Imagine what that does to your training morale. What is the point of working hard and trying to earn a spot? the manager has clearly already picked his side and will focus on making sure that they are ready.  If every one thinks, hey, why not me to start this week, they might all train harder and try to impress more, in essence raising the standard of training and improving the standard of the whole team.

[LFC2007]

Kuyt and Babel, who aren't exactly in a position yet to know they're not being dropped because of a rest, will dent their confidence. Even if it's ever so slightly, it'll still be dented.

what could be more damaging is Know days in advance that no matter what you do, you will NOT be playing at the weekend.  Imagine what that does to your training morale. What is the point of working hard and trying to earn a spot? the manager has clearly already picked his side and will focus on making sure that they are ready.  If every one thinks, hey, why not me to start this week, they might all train harder and try to impress more, in essence raising the standard of training and improving the standard of the whole team.

Nailed it.

[maguskwt]

... well that's how i see it anyway...

Well you're wrong then 

according to you...

[maguskwt]

I do agree with some of Mick, like us still rotating to much. My main gripe at this particular bit was Aurellio (my boo boy if truth be told) and Bob pulled me up about it. To summerise Bob's point it was "how can you slag Aurellio off all season then when he's dropped ask why he wasn't playing?" Which I suppose is a fair question and one that would need some sensible explaination. My explaination was Benitez is rotating/dropping/resting a player just as he's found his form. Aurellio's first goal for the club, his confidence would of been sky high and he's dropped. So in Milan if (and I expect him to be) Aurellio is selected he's going to have to start again, finding his feet to the pace. Likewise Kuyt and Babel. Two of them are finding their feet and form in this system so ahead of a hugely important game he drops them. I don't see the logic in that meself. Why drop players who are finding form? It's just going to shatter their confidence even more. That's where rotation fails for me. If you're changing players who are struggling fair enough, but not the ones who are playing well.

your point on kuyt and babel is a bit strange... if the manager said " I will be resting you two so that I can use you for the inter clash" then why would their confidence be shattered? come on now they're professional footballers not some delicate orchids...

Because they don't know they're playing against Inter. Benitez names the team an hour before kick off, not three days in advance.

Kuyt and Babel, who aren't exactly in a position yet to know they're not being dropped because of a rest, will dent their confidence. Even if it's ever so slightly, it'll still be dented.

I don't believe they are completely in the dark gbjh... that wouldn't be good management...

[JoeTerp]

from .tv seems to be more of same



Meanwhile, Benitez has reiterated his intention to rotate less over the coming months now his side are fighting on just two fronts.

He explained: "With us, for me the key is that because we only have two competitions to go for, I won't change too many players.

"So they have to work really hard to get into the team because of that. When the team's working so hard, it makes it difficult to create chances against us. From now until the end of the season we want to be competing, playing good football, controlling games and winning."

[bigmick]

"I won't change too many players."

"So they have to work really hard to get into the team because of that. When the team's working so hard, it makes it difficult to create chances against us. "

I could practically have written that myself. If he's going to have a shot at the Premiership without "Rafa styling" it next season, I would advocate giving him another season to be perfectly honest.

I know he keeps going for this "now we're only in two competitions" line, but it really is beginning to appear that he's prepared to consider the possibility that mass rotation has harmed us over the years and that perhaps he was wrong. All of which is good, because he was.

[Judge]

"I won't change too many players."

"So they have to work really hard to get into the team because of that. When the team's working so hard, it makes it difficult to create chances against us. "

I could practically have written that myself. If he's going to have a shot at the Premiership without "Rafa styling" it next season, I would advocate giving him another season to be perfectly honest.

I know he keeps going for this "now we're only in two competitions" line, but it really is beginning to appear that he's prepared to consider the possibility that mass rotation has harmed us over the years and that perhaps he was wrong. All of which is good, because he was.

i so glad rafa took my advice to rotate less, and the victories would come

[Sabre]

"I won't change too many players."

"So they have to work really hard to get into the team because of that. When the team's working so hard, it makes it difficult to create chances against us. "

I could practically have written that myself. If he's going to have a shot at the Premiership without "Rafa styling" it next season, I would advocate giving him another season to be perfectly honest.

I know he keeps going for this "now we're only in two competitions" line, but it really is beginning to appear that he's prepared to consider the possibility that mass rotation has harmed us over the years and that perhaps he was wrong. All of which is good, because he was.

Don't give him another season then. I know he will recover his old crazyness as soon as we're playing many games again mate.

Anyhow, I feel rotation might have some dangers. The one of asking 110% of hard work to players in order to get a spot in the team is very important. I had mentioned this weeks and after the last match our aggression when defending has been a lot better this week and Rafa confirms it. It's important that the players don't feel they sooner or later they'll have a chance to enter the team because we rotate much. If a player is not giving it all, or can give more, is nice to give him some bench as Rafa did with Crouch at the start of season, or has done recently with Xabi Alonso.

Rotating less or more, this tension in training and this demand to the players must exist.

[Judge]

rotation explained scientifically

does rafa apply this to his footy selection, if so, its clear to me why he got it wrong

[Sabre]

Aragones is an antirotationist. More than antirotationist I think he's a classic coach.

Ideally, if I play one game per week I would make as little changes as possible, so even for a rotationist, not changing too much the team makes sense when a team plays 7 days later. To play a unimportant game like the Greece one you rest as much players as possible and that's it.

Now, the questions, aimed to bigmick, but anyone can join!

Question / Scenario a) You're the Spanish Coach and you prepare the team against Italy.

I grant that when you play the same team every week you gain certain togetherness and you manage to make some movements automatically. I never denied that point, but defended that rotation also has good points when you play many games, and games within the week.

Question: Would you play Alonso after an excellent game against Greece if you see that besides that he's giving everything in the training session? If the answer is no and you prefer to stick to the team that worked on the first two games for the sake of cohesion and not breaking momentum, under what circunstance would you introduce Fabregas or Alonso within the team? would it have to be after a defeat?

Question / Scenario B) Now imagine you're the Italian coach

If you know for sure the opposition manager will play a certain team, wouldn't be easier for you to prepare the match? For instance if you know for sure Alonso is gonna play you could choose to mark him closely alternating 2 of your players in that work depending in the position, in order not to give him space. The question is, wouldn't be easier for a opposition manager to prepare the game against Spain, or Liverpool for that matter if the line up is the same and well known?


I've used Spain to make the questions but they can be inmediatly translated to club football. My point of debate is the same as always, I'll never deny the good points of cohesion that antirotationist mention, but I don't give them so much importance to them and you always have in rotation some good sides. That's why I question the two scenarios.

It's summer, and the good old rotation debate might be good until the signings come.

[account deleted by request]

Quick answers while we wait for Micks 3 page essay  .

Question / Scenario a) You're the Spanish Coach and you prepare the team against Italy.

I would only introduce Alonso IF I was unhappy with performance of Senna. Why change it if it's not broke?


Question / Scenario B) Now imagine you're the Italian coach

Obviously it makes it easier if you know the opposition line up, but I prefer to let the other team worry about my team rather than worry too much about what they are going to do. (Probably why I am not an international team manager   )

[66-1112520797]

Don't give him another season then. I know he will recover his old crazyness as soon as we're playing many games again mate

And thats what I fear TBPH if he carries on styling and we wimper out of the league race again I think Rafas job is as good as gone.

[Sabre]

I like more your first answer than your second S@int.

You're right, "don't fix what's not broken" is a notion valid not only for football but for everything.

But take Fabregas. He had some muscular problems 2 weeks ago, now he's OK. If he's on fire, must we wait until another midfielder does a bad game? should we keep a player who's doing a good job instead a player who may have been back to best form and is probably better and help more Torres for the sake of not breaking the cohesion? that's my debate.

The second answer, I don't like it so much. It's used by fans, and pundits coming from authentic winner clubs, mythical clubs like Liverpool. But success, and Liverpool is a good example of success, is not a consequence of Liverpool human beings being better, but Liverpool human beings doing the right things, with the right attitude. Success is a consequence of that. And I certainly think that any team should study and do study the opposition videos thoroughly these days, even for the slightest details, to tell for instance to Dudek where the Milan shooters throw the penalties.

Perhaps a well informed Dudek can win you a final, but a better keeper like Reina without that information wouldn't (Ok I know he's a great stopper but he has lots of info too).