Liverpool FC Forum

[Lando_Griffin]

Have you read his book, AB? Ever since I did, he's dropped like a sack of sh*te in my estimation.

I've read his book Lando and i havnt changed my mind about him at all. 

A few people have said similar things, what was it that made him go down in your estimations?

All that rubish about Gar Neville, "JT" and Fat Frank, the fat that he views playing for England higher than for Liverpool, his "self-self-self" attitude, and the fact thathe seems to want to be a part of the Scum and SH*tski club, rather than LFC.

The bloke is a traitor in waiting.

[account deleted by request]

 

no comment   

Only joking red37 your posts are always worth a read (when iv time  )

[red37]

:D 

no comment   

Only joking red37 your posts are always worth a read (when iv time  )

thats because your spending half the night teaching me all about computers mate!   


(why am i about to regret making a statement like that)



Lando/Judge - you can both pi55 off,  before you start!      

[67-1161385641]

Most people will know that I like Stevie in the middle of the park, and couldnt really give a to$$ about his personality. He has much more influence on a game in the middle and all that malarky, and TBH I couldnt see us mustering a goal against PSV or Man.C if he was playing in his best position.
If that were Momo and Xabi in the middle there would no way be the same goal threat, but as a unit with the three of them its probably best for the team allround. In my mind though it should be upto Momo to break / force his way back into the team, not just Stevie moving aside considering and lets be honest he's the only player that really can pull a rabbit out of a hat on a consistent basis.
I just hate all this flavour of the month/season thing where if the manager says his best position, or any players best position is here most of the fans believe that and follow the managers thoughts, where personally from time to time the manager can call it wrong.................. but not in everyones eyes.
People on here slate Stevie and his attitude and " her majesty " but if ever there were a bad word or negative word spoken about Rafa those same people get on their high horse and more or less name you a traitor............ funny eh ?

I agree Steven's personality has no interest to me; it's what he does on the pitch that bothers me too. I agree with you that Gerrard has influence in the centre of the park, but Gerrard (when he can be bothered) can be influential in any position. He showed that last season he could be influential on the right flank, like he showed when he first broke into the team and played at right back. Gerrard has influence regardless where he plays, I think to say he is more influential on the right is wrong, just like saying he is more influential in the centre is wrong as well. He was great in the centre in both games and I’ll agree we didn’t look like scoring until Gerrard surged forward in both games, but he was doing that on a consistent basis on the right last season. To me it’s not a case of him being better in the centre or the right, it’s what’s best for the team and sometimes Gerrard is more beneficial in the centre and other times he is more beneficial on the right hand side midfielder. I’m getting increasingly fed up with a large proportion of our clubs affairs involving Gerrard. He’s a great player and there are pro’s and con’s for him playing in both positions, not many con’s, but there are some, but I don’t think the ‘what is Gerrard’s better position’ will ever be won and lost.

I have to say I enjoy the centre mid pairing of Alonso and Sissoko, I think it was the perfect balance you need, and not many holes are left for the opposition to exploit when Sissoko and Alonso are playing together. As for three players in the centre of the park, I’m not a fan of the 4-5-1 formation, to me it’s an ugly formation and we do not have the players to reep the rewards of playing this formation. I’m also not a fan of the lone striker; too much pressure will be put on the likes of Bellamy, Kuyt and Crouch should we play that formation and what happens when we don’t get goals with this formation? People will start moaning again about how negative the formation is and I believe we used under Rafa previously and people were angry with it and wanted a 4-4-2. IMO all players should fight for their places and if they aren’t willing to do that then they can kiss goodbye to the “This is Anfield” sign and leave for another club. I don’t like the fact that people seem to believe it’s a crime to drop Gerrard onto the bench. Alonso, Momo and Steven should have to work for their starting role in the team and that goes for the rest of the squad.

I agree I do tend to see for myself where a players best position is, but what you have to remember is that the manager will watch the players in training, he will watch matches over and over again to see where a player is best suited and more often than not they are usually spot on. It’s funny  how the debate of where Gerrard’s best position is crops up when we aren’t doing so well, did you complain about Gerrard playing on the right hand side of midfield when we were winning last season? As A.B rightly said Gerrard has only made this an issue because he is fed up of playing on the right, it wouldn’t surprise me if Gerrard deliberately played under par until he was moved back to the centre.

I do however agree with you about the people who are quick to defend Rafa, but that’s football fans for you.

[Smeg]

Stevie is an attacking midfielder, not a central midfielder. End of.

[66-1112520797]

Most people will know that I like Stevie in the middle of the park, and couldnt really give a to$$ about his personality. He has much more influence on a game in the middle and all that malarky, and TBH I couldnt see us mustering a goal against PSV or Man.C if he was playing in his best position.
If that were Momo and Xabi in the middle there would no way be the same goal threat, but as a unit with the three of them its probably best for the team allround. In my mind though it should be upto Momo to break / force his way back into the team, not just Stevie moving aside considering and lets be honest he's the only player that really can pull a rabbit out of a hat on a consistent basis.
I just hate all this flavour of the month/season thing where if the manager says his best position, or any players best position is here most of the fans believe that and follow the managers thoughts, where personally from time to time the manager can call it wrong.................. but not in everyones eyes.
People on here slate Stevie and his attitude and " her majesty " but if ever there were a bad word or negative word spoken about Rafa those same people get on their high horse and more or less name you a traitor............ funny eh ?

Good point, in fairness, mate.  To me, they're both right, in important ways.

When Rafa stays that Stevie is a tremendous asset on the right, he's speaking about games where we are controlling the midfield and feeding him the ball without difficulty.  Those are the games where he's everywhere on the pitch, driving the team forward, breaking into the box and scoring goals.  Of course, when he's in that mood, right back could be his starting position and he'd still play out of his skin!  If Rafa could bottle this formula and uncork it every game he definitely would, because it allows him solidity in CM while releasing Gerrard to play the free role that he excels at.

But, there are games where we struggle to control the midfield and find it hard to feed Stevie the ball.  In those games he can look pretty isolated out on the right (or left).  These are the games where you would prefer him in the centre of the park, where you know he's going to get the touches he needs to influence the game.  This is why I understand Stevie's point when he says he'd prefer to play in the middle: in his preferred position, he can be guaranteed an influence on the game.

Trouble is, it's sometimes hard to know what kind of game it will be when we line up at kick-off.  Moreover, with Pennant blowing hot and cold so far, it's hard to justify sitting Momo or Alonso down so that Gerrard can start in the middle and Pennant on the right.

This is why I think a 4-5-1/4-3-3 is an option worth reconsidering.  With Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko all selected in central roles, we can guarantee Stevie the influence on the game he craves (in an advanced, attacking role), while keeping the solidity of the Sissoko/Alonso pairing on the pitch.  If Pennant struggles in this formation, Gerrard can help him by creating space or providing another outlet (as well as tracking back defensively if Pennant gets stranded upfield).  If we're controlling central midfield but our wide-players are letting us down, we can always revert to a 4-4-2 and push Stevie into a wider role, with a 2nd striker coming in.

When Rafa brought in Momo, I dont think he even thought that Momo would have such an impact. I Think Rafa was going to play him as a sub mostly, to get him accustomed in England. But as its panned out the guy on numerous occassions has had some excellent performances.

Momos game is all about ball wininng and he's very good at it, his passing at times can be dreadful and his influence on the game in the final third is pretty non-existant. I'm gonna sticj my neck out and say ....... " Does that actually warrant a starting place ahead of Englands best midfielder?"

Most of you will say yes due to the fact Pennant has under performed, so Stevie should stick it out there. But if thats the case that particular problem is Rafa's fault, and he should rectify that either on the training ground with Pennant or in the transfer market.
As for Gerrard its quite clear people on here cant stand his attitude for one reason or another, and their even more vocal in their opinions after he produces two match wininng performances, go figure............. I wouldnt clarify those as fans, just people who are bitter about his ways and that obviously clouds any judgement of him as a footballer.

[66-1112520797]

It’s funny  how the debate of where Gerrard’s best position is crops up when we aren’t doing so well, did you complain about Gerrard playing on the right hand side of midfield when we were winning last season

I wasnt fortunate to see many games last season, infact hardly any. But like Gerrard I suppose I thought it was a stop gap until the summer and somebody new and capable were brought.

But did you or anyone else complain the four seasons before that when Gerrard was played CM and wininng games and cups?

Its only because Rafa has moved him, people think he's best deployed there, and you yourself said that the managers who watch and study games over and over again are usually right. That maybe true nine times out of ten, but personally for me in this particular instance I disagree with Rafa being right. My opinions have been based only on all the matches I've seen this season (which is all of them) and whether its down to the fact Gerrard couldnt be bothered or was sulking or was isolated in those matches he played on the right hand side and then gets shuffled back to the middle for two games and produces maych winners indicates to me he's better off there and so are the team. And thats not taking into account the fact he can boss, be involved much more and be a genuine threat and influence in EVERY game he plays. I like Momo and Xabi, but they dont offer nearly enough when going forward, its all well and good have a great battling midfield with those two, but I assure you fans become quickly frustrated with the lack of goals and wins against mediocre opposition. Most times this season we've failed to break teams down, on top of that we have two strikers that do their best work outside the box and arent your "fox in the box" type of strikers. So already their is a lack of conviction up front with a pairing of Momo and Xabi behind them , to me that quartet doesnt spell out goals............. more of graft containment and hardwork. But that doesnt guarentee you goals, well nothing does but having Gerrard making those timely runs and being more of a threat going forward than Alonso & Momo put together does.

[mattylfc]

Have you read his book, AB? Ever since I did, he's dropped like a sack of sh*te in my estimation.

I've read his book Lando and i havnt changed my mind about him at all. 

A few people have said similar things, what was it that made him go down in your estimations?

All that rubish about Gar Neville, "JT" and Fat Frank, the fat that he views playing for England higher than for Liverpool, his "self-self-self" attitude, and the fact thathe seems to want to be a part of the Scum and SH*tski club, rather than LFC.

The bloke is a traitor in waiting.

If Gerrard was a traitor he wouldnt be here now.  He had the opportunity to and play for Cheslea and get a big pay rise but decided to stay and try and take the club that he loves forward.

I think people sometimes forget that Gerrard is only human. He has feelings just like everyone else.  He does come across as selfish quite a bit but he even admits himself that he is a selfish person, he is a winner.

Gerrard wants to be performing at the highest level and he wants to be doing it with LFC. When all this transfer talk was going on, no-one was really sure what direction Liverpool were going in and he needed to re-evaluate and look at his options.  When Benitez came in, Gerrard made it quite clear that he had mixed feelings.  He knew that Benitez knew football inside out but on a personal level Gerrard found it very different after being captain under Houllier (a father figure).  Gerrard explains that there is nothing wrong with the way Benitez handles his players, it is just different to what he is use to.  Just takes time to adapt.

This coupled with the fact that Owen and Murphy (two of his best mates and LFC's best players) had been released, i think he wondered what was going on.  Gerrard didnt think for one minute he would sell Owen, surely that would have worried him.

We all know that Benitez is a shrewd manager and he does what is needed for the club.  If he needs to cash in on his biggest asset he would do,as he did with Mendieta at Valencia. This obviously got Gerrard a bit worried too as he said on more than one occasion that he didnt know where he stood and didnt feel wanted at one point.

In terms of Neville, JT and Fat frank.  He has to spend a lot of time with these players when on England duty and it is no wonder that he sees them in a different light, they become friends, just like Thierry Henry and Wayne Rooney have become his friends.  This doesnt change the way he performs against them when playing for Liverpool, it just means that when he is on international duty they become team mates and they naturally bond.  They are top professionals and respect each other. Thats why the likes of Henry and Terry sent good luck messages to Gerrard prior to the CL final.

Also, Gerrard has never said that he prefers playing for England.  He loves playing for both. Every players dream is to represent their country against the rest of the world.  If you think that players should prefer playing for the club then you are kidding yourself.  Representing Engalnd is the elite for any player.

I do completely understand why people are unsure about Gerrard but personally i dont think he can do anymore to prove that he loves Liverpool football Club.  He wouldnt be here now if he didnt want the best for the club and didnt think we were going in the right direction.

He shows week in, week out that he loves playing for LFC and always puts in 110% for the cause.  People think he's a sulker just because he hates it when Liverpool lose and doesnt look happy when he walks off the pitch, dont know how people expect him to react.  All he wants to do is help Liverpool F.C reach the highest level and i think he's done a pretty good job so far.

Gerrard was under immense pressure and had to make a massive decision for himself, his family and for the club. Im just so glad he made the right decision because i wouldnt swap him for anyone in the world, he's that good.

[66-1112520797]

Have you read his book, AB? Ever since I did, he's dropped like a sack of sh*te in my estimation.

I've read his book Lando and i havnt changed my mind about him at all. 

A few people have said similar things, what was it that made him go down in your estimations?

All that rubish about Gar Neville, "JT" and Fat Frank, the fat that he views playing for England higher than for Liverpool, his "self-self-self" attitude, and the fact thathe seems to want to be a part of the Scum and SH*tski club, rather than LFC.

The bloke is a traitor in waiting.

If Gerrard was a traitor he wouldnt be here now.  He had the opportunity to and play for Cheslea and get a big pay rise but decided to stay and try and take the club that he loves forward.

I think people sometimes forget that Gerrard is only human. He has feelings just like everyone else.  He does come across as selfish quite a bit but he even admits himself that he is a selfish person, he is a winner.

Gerrard wants to be performing at the highest level and he wants to be doing it with LFC. When all this transfer talk was going on, no-one was really sure what direction Liverpool were going in and he needed to re-evaluate and look at his options.  When Benitez came in, Gerrard made it quite clear that he had mixed feelings.  He knew that Benitez knew football inside out but on a personal level Gerrard found it very different after being captain under Houllier (a father figure).  Gerrard explains that there is nothing wrong with the way Benitez handles his players, it is just different to what he is use to.  Just takes time to adapt.

This coupled with the fact that Owen and Murphy (two of his best mates and LFC's best players) had been released, i think he wondered what was going on.  Gerrard didnt think for one minute he would sell Owen, surely that would have worried him.

We all know that Benitez is a shrewd manager and he does what is needed for the club.  If he needs to cash in on his biggest asset he would do,as he did with Mendieta at Valencia. This obviously got Gerrard a bit worried too as he said on more than one occasion that he didnt know where he stood and didnt feel wanted at one point.

In terms of Neville, JT and Fat frank.  He has to spend a lot of time with these players when on England duty and it is no wonder that he sees them in a different light, they become friends, just like Thierry Henry and Wayne Rooney have become his friends.  This doesnt change the way he performs against them when playing for Liverpool, it just means that when he is on international duty they become team mates and they naturally bond.  They are top professionals and respect each other. Thats why the likes of Henry and Terry sent good luck messages to Gerrard prior to the CL final.

Also, Gerrard has never said that he prefers playing for England.  He loves playing for both. Every players dream is to represent their country against the rest of the world.  If you think that players should prefer playing for the club then you are kidding yourself.  Representing Engalnd is the elite for any player.

I do completely understand why people are unsure about Gerrard but personally i dont think he can do anymore to prove that he loves Liverpool football Club.  He wouldnt be here now if he didnt want the best for the club and didnt think we were going in the right direction.

He shows week in, week out that he loves playing for LFC and always puts in 110% for the cause.  People think he's a sulker just because he hates it when Liverpool lose and doesnt look happy when he walks off the pitch, dont know how people expect him to react.  All he wants to do is help Liverpool F.C reach the highest level and i think he's done a pretty good job so far.

Gerrard was under immense pressure and had to make a massive decision for himself, his family and for the club. Im just so glad he made the right decision because i wouldnt swap him for anyone in the world, he's that good.

A great post that mate and one that puts things into perspective, which at times is well needed around here.

[67-1161385641]

It’s funny  how the debate of where Gerrard’s best position is crops up when we aren’t doing so well, did you complain about Gerrard playing on the right hand side of midfield when we were winning last season

I wasnt fortunate to see many games last season, infact hardly any. But like Gerrard I suppose I thought it was a stop gap until the summer and somebody new and capable were brought.

But did you or anyone else complain the four seasons before that when Gerrard was played CM and wininng games and cups?

Its only because Rafa has moved him, people think he's best deployed there, and you yourself said that the managers who watch and study games over and over again are usually right. That maybe true nine times out of ten, but personally for me in this particular instance I disagree with Rafa being right. My opinions have been based only on all the matches I've seen this season (which is all of them) and whether its down to the fact Gerrard couldnt be bothered or was sulking or was isolated in those matches he played on the right hand side and then gets shuffled back to the middle for two games and produces maych winners indicates to me he's better off there and so are the team. And thats not taking into account the fact he can boss, be involved much more and be a genuine threat and influence in EVERY game he plays. I like Momo and Xabi, but they dont offer nearly enough when going forward, its all well and good have a great battling midfield with those two, but I assure you fans become quickly frustrated with the lack of goals and wins against mediocre opposition. Most times this season we've failed to break teams down, on top of that we have two strikers that do their best work outside the box and arent your "fox in the box" type of strikers. So already their is a lack of conviction up front with a pairing of Momo and Xabi behind them , to me that quartet doesnt spell out goals............. more of graft containment and hardwork. But that doesnt guarentee you goals, well nothing does but having Gerrard making those timely runs and being more of a threat going forward than Alonso & Momo put together does.

Gerrard IMO had his finest season as a Liverpool player on the right flank, he scored goals, he had the same influence on the team on the right hand side as he does in the middle, he was still a major driving force on the right hand side, he was whipping in good, quality crosses, he was able to roam about in the middle as well because Momo would cover a lot of ground allowing Gerrard to cut inside. Whether Gerrard thought it was a stop gap or not shouldn’t matter, Gerrard should be prepared and willing to play in any position is he asked for any length of time. He shouldn’t start whinging about it, it’s unprofessional.

I didn’t complain when Gerrard played at right back, I didn’t complain when Gerrard played in the centre or on the right flank. Gerrard is capable of playing anywhere, when he can be bothered and when he wants to. He didn’t want to play at right midfield and kicked up a fuss about it and had a face on him like he had been told by doctors he could never play football again and what do you know he gets played in the centre and he has this great big smile on his face again.  Gerrard can play anywhere he wants because he is that good of a player, no position (except for playing between the sticks) is too much hassle for Gerrard, but it becomes a problem with Gerrard when he does not want to play there, his performances drop and he sulks, which is evident here. I’d also like to make it clear that I have no problem with Gerrard playing in the centre providing he has a defensive player behind him who is disciplined so it doesn’t leave huge holes in our midfield for the opposition to exploit. IMO Gerrard and Sissoko cannot work together, Sissoko has absolutely no discipline and neither does Gerrard. Alonso is moulding into a fine defensive midfielder, but he too is prone to moving up the pitch, if we had someone like Hamann then I would happily say right play Gerrard in the centre of midfield period, but as I said sometimes it is better for the team if Gerrard plays in the centre or the right hand side of midfield. He has to accept that he is just as beneficial on the right as he in the centre.  He has to be prepared to play in his least favourite position for the benefit of the team. I don’t think he is prepared to do that to be fair and if he wasn’t a local lad or such a great player Benitez would have dropped him by now.

Of course people think he is best deployed there since Rafa moved him, Rafa is the only manager Gerrard has had that has placed him on the right for over a year, so naturally people will start to see the benefits Gerrard brings to the team playing on the right flank. People who went to most matches last season or watched Liverpool on television will have weighed up the pros and cons of playing Gerrard on the right flank and just like the centre of the park, Gerrard is good in both positions and the pros vastly out weigh the cons in both positions he plays in. For me last season was Gerrard’s best season, he scored the most goals last season then he has in previous seasons, sure the right flank does restrict some of Gerrard’s ability, but then so does playing him at right back, left mid or centre mid, even as a second striker you’re restricting some of Gerrard’s ability, but that’s what happens when you’re as versatile as Swiss army knife.

I agree Momo and Alonso don’t offer the same threat and velocity of attack that Gerrard does, but they are the most stable midfield pairing we have at the club, they are the most reliable, I’d go as far as saying if it wasn’t for their great midfield pairing we wouldn’t of done as well as we did last season. I agree if Gerrard had someone more disciplined behind him doing the donkey work then that would enhance Gerrard’s attacking ability further, but we haven’t got that player at the moment so Gerrard will just have to accept that he won’t always play in his favourite position, he will be rotated and if he doesn’t like it, he shouldn’t of been so damn versatile in the first place.

[Bad Bob]

When Rafa brought in Momo, I dont think he even thought that Momo would have such an impact. I Think Rafa was going to play him as a sub mostly, to get him accustomed in England. But as its panned out the guy on numerous occassions has had some excellent performances.

Momos game is all about ball wininng and he's very good at it, his passing at times can be dreadful and his influence on the game in the final third is pretty non-existant. I'm gonna sticj my neck out and say ....... " Does that actually warrant a starting place ahead of Englands best midfielder?"

Very true.  I think Momo was definitely bought as another of Rafa's "options"...one for the future, who would bed in gradually and eventually take up the mantle from Didi when he retired/moved on.

His effectiveness early on last season, though, led Rafa to change the game-plan and start to incorporate him into the side a lot more.  For the first few months, that meant rotation with Gerrard, Alonso and, to a lesser extent, Hamann.

Eventually, though, the RM position became a problem: Garcia was inconsistent, Pongo wasn't the answer, Nunez was gone, etc.  Hell, even Finnan played a few matches out there!  So, almost in desperation Rafa tries Gerrard out there, and voila, success.  Plus, getting Kewell back on the left suddenly gave us a midfield four with balance and bite for the first time under Benitez.  In fact, Kewell's absence is one of the main reasons why Gerrard on the right has been less effective for me this season.  The balance we had last year is lost because whoever's been playing on the left has not filled Harry's shoes, allowing defenses to focus on isolating Gerrard.

Nonetheless, as Woof's noted on many occasions, it's not like Gerrard played every game out on the right after November.  Cisse played there quite a bit, too, and not just when Sissoko was out with his eye injury.  Especially at Anfield during the run in, Rafa rested Momo a fair bit, restoring Gerrard to the middle with Alonso (and that worked too).

This is a long-winded way of saying that Gerrard has the ability to be the best player on the pitch no matter where he plays in midfield and long may that continue.  For me, the decision about where to play him comes down to midfield balance.  If Momo and Xabi are fit and the wingers we've bought are struggling--which has been the case for much of the season--then Gerrard needs to be played out wide.  As Pennant comes to grips--we hope--with playing in the side, though, he can and probably should, move back inside with Alonso, saving Momo for tough away fixtures or home games against the bigger sides.

[67-1161385641]

Sissoko will never be like Hamann, they are two different players, and how the Vieira comparison came about is beyond me. Vieira as a youngster was a far better player than Sissoko; Vieira is far more and was far more disciplined than Sissoko ever will be. Vieira is a better passer of the ball, he can read the game better, and even if you look at a young Vieira he was much, much better than Sissoko. Sissoko is a good player, but his style of play completely contrasts that of Patty Vieira, Rafa was way off the mark when he made that comparison. Apart from that you’re spot on with what you say Bob.

[Bad Bob]

Apart from that you’re spot on with what you say Bob.

Not to be pedantic, mate, but this makes it sound like I compared Momo to Vieira in the post above, which I clearly didn't.  That was Rafa's claim but you're right in saying that's a bit OTT.  Having never seen Vieira in his younger days (nor Sissoko for that matter), I won't slate Rafa too much for making the "as teenagers" comparison but, currently, Sissoko clearly doesn't have as much in his locker as Vieira did at his age.

That's not to say that he doesn't play an important role for us and I certainly wouldn't want to leave him on the bench in games against the likes of Man U or Chelsea.  However, there is a case to be made--as Bamaga Man does--for dropping him for a number of home games, in order to get a more attack-minded team on the pitch.

[ConnO'var]

To summarize the above: Gerrard is effective in Central Midfield when he has equal influential support of those around him. (not in evidence previously) hence Rafa deciding to investigate alternatives. Gerrard is/was equally instrumental from -'the right'- as a viable option, when the rest of the unit is balanced (which clearly it isnt) so of course you will inevitably hear the 'war drums' calling for parity to be restored. Now that he has successfully transferred back to the middle.....suggests other areas for concern that remain to be solved. Because all of a sudden, things are beginning to appear rosy again. and whys that? -  because the real problem doesnt lie with Steve Gerrard or 'where' he's played at all......  work it out.

Mate... been trying to work it out but can't seem to quite grasp what it is that you're thinking.... What's coming next maybe completely off-base but gonna give it a shot anyway.

Is the mental fortitude of the remainder of our midfield and attackers in question? Are we just way too dependant on Gerrard or is his persona just too imposing that the rest of the players are reluctant to try and exert their own influence on the game? or do we simply lack the the attacking flair and finishing capability that we go go off the rails when Gerrard is in a position where he can exert less of an influence.. ie on the right?

I certainly hope that its none of the above as that would mean that there is a serious problem with our players.....

Can you elaborate mate? Coz it's doing me head in, not being able to figure this out....

In my defense or more accurately, my only excuse is that it's almost 8 pm and I've not had me dinner yet... 

Connovar, i was trying to suggest that since Gerrards return to the centre, all of a sudden he hits a bit of 'form' with Alonso/Sissoko out. therefore the lack of a 'fulcrum' of distribution along with a 'break-up' player of Momo's stature..the onus then switches to better distribution from the defence including the full-backs in order to supply Gerrard with his ammunition meaning he is able to drive at teams through the centre. I think it was more in deferrence to the way in which the team suddenly appears cohesive and willing to 'push' up from the back, knowing Gerrard's efficiency when he gets on to the ball.  Rather than an over reliance on bypassing midfield up to Kuyt/Crouch in the 'hope' they can hold it up, until gerrard arrives in the box. With him played centrally, it is easier for him to make beter use of the ball, from defence to attack. But, if you do play him out wide (which equally he is influential from) then the emphasis lies heavy on the shoulders of players, who have previously relished having stevie do half of their donkey work. For me, one key lies in the supporting full-backs/or lack of, making Gerrard 'look' wasted out right...theyre simply too inhibited to overlap him...because he isnt there - he inevitably drifts in, by nature of his intent. So the defence sits deep, using the diagonal balls/over hitting direct passes to the stiker(s) Nervous/anxious play that inevitably leads to squandering possession somewhere down the line. By all means use him Wide or Central, in any case have better discipline in those around him on the park... Panic/fear of failure has set in recently which eventually leads to the mess the team has found themselves in. if the levels of duress you are suffering from hinder any facet of your game - it will flounder. doesnt matter where you are deployed.  So the cheering and waving of  'i told you so' flags have come out, and everyone demanding 'Gerrard cannot play out wide'...etc...are down to nothing less than a necessity to alter the script through the decimation of our midfield. (therefore the wake-up call) the side clearly warranted...And the renewed sense of liberty and freedom Gerrard is able to operate with can have no other bearing other than the consideration of his partners abscence and the fact that the defence have a point of attack with which to aim to feed. Throw Sissoko/Alonso back into the equation and the waters become muddied again...Its nothing more sinister than lack of balance really mate. Last season Gerrard stamped his authority over the midfield unit solely because he was similarly 'free' to roam, safe in the knowledge the 'axis' behind him was secured. This year that factor has been removed from the ethic of the team, down to two or three players having far too similar an influence. Confusion reigns.

Just a hint ConnO'var, never ask Red37 to elaborate 

I'll remember that in the future [email]s@int.....[/email] Only kidding red37....

Thanks for the clarification btw.... clearer now...   

[ConnO'var]

Have you read his book, AB? Ever since I did, he's dropped like a sack of sh*te in my estimation.

I've read his book Lando and i havnt changed my mind about him at all. 

A few people have said similar things, what was it that made him go down in your estimations?

All that rubish about Gar Neville, "JT" and Fat Frank, the fat that he views playing for England higher than for Liverpool, his "self-self-self" attitude, and the fact thathe seems to want to be a part of the Scum and SH*tski club, rather than LFC.

The bloke is a traitor in waiting.

If Gerrard was a traitor he wouldnt be here now.  He had the opportunity to and play for Cheslea and get a big pay rise but decided to stay and try and take the club that he loves forward.

I think people sometimes forget that Gerrard is only human. He has feelings just like everyone else.  He does come across as selfish quite a bit but he even admits himself that he is a selfish person, he is a winner.

Gerrard wants to be performing at the highest level and he wants to be doing it with LFC. When all this transfer talk was going on, no-one was really sure what direction Liverpool were going in and he needed to re-evaluate and look at his options.  When Benitez came in, Gerrard made it quite clear that he had mixed feelings.  He knew that Benitez knew football inside out but on a personal level Gerrard found it very different after being captain under Houllier (a father figure).  Gerrard explains that there is nothing wrong with the way Benitez handles his players, it is just different to what he is use to.  Just takes time to adapt.

This coupled with the fact that Owen and Murphy (two of his best mates and LFC's best players) had been released, i think he wondered what was going on.  Gerrard didnt think for one minute he would sell Owen, surely that would have worried him.

We all know that Benitez is a shrewd manager and he does what is needed for the club.  If he needs to cash in on his biggest asset he would do,as he did with Mendieta at Valencia. This obviously got Gerrard a bit worried too as he said on more than one occasion that he didnt know where he stood and didnt feel wanted at one point.

In terms of Neville, JT and Fat frank.  He has to spend a lot of time with these players when on England duty and it is no wonder that he sees them in a different light, they become friends, just like Thierry Henry and Wayne Rooney have become his friends.  This doesnt change the way he performs against them when playing for Liverpool, it just means that when he is on international duty they become team mates and they naturally bond.  They are top professionals and respect each other. Thats why the likes of Henry and Terry sent good luck messages to Gerrard prior to the CL final.

Also, Gerrard has never said that he prefers playing for England.  He loves playing for both. Every players dream is to represent their country against the rest of the world.  If you think that players should prefer playing for the club then you are kidding yourself.  Representing Engalnd is the elite for any player.

I do completely understand why people are unsure about Gerrard but personally i dont think he can do anymore to prove that he loves Liverpool football Club.  He wouldnt be here now if he didnt want the best for the club and didnt think we were going in the right direction.

He shows week in, week out that he loves playing for LFC and always puts in 110% for the cause.  People think he's a sulker just because he hates it when Liverpool lose and doesnt look happy when he walks off the pitch, dont know how people expect him to react.  All he wants to do is help Liverpool F.C reach the highest level and i think he's done a pretty good job so far.

Gerrard was under immense pressure and had to make a massive decision for himself, his family and for the club. Im just so glad he made the right decision because i wouldnt swap him for anyone in the world, he's that good.

A great post that mate and one that puts things into perspective, which at times is well needed around here.

ditto..

Agree with that to a very large extent...

Sometimes his onfield demeanor does make you wonder though..... Hopefully it's because he hates to lose and not just pulling a sulk...