The final straw...

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Fo Dne » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:02 am

peewee wrote:emerald its not based only on the three games this season, come on mate you are more intelligent than that, you know what it's based on. look you have your opinion and you are sticking to your guns and I respect that. I am sure we both love the club but we both see different ways in the way it should go forward.

we can go backwards and forwards all day with this but I think we will need to agree to disagree   :D

I don't respect it at all.

He's that far up Benitez's :censored: everythings rosie, he doesn't make consistent stupid selections and signings and he's a :censored: god.

Its quite pathetic really he can't see the blatently obvious flaws in the team and the manager.
Fo Dne
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:27 am
Location: Liverpool

Postby Fo Dne » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:08 am

Rush Job wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:I don't feel the need to jump in and defend him everytime someone slates him. The fact that the main board is now littered with anti-Rafa shyte topics does annoy me, however. There's just been a constant torrent of abuse of certain players in the team, and if its not them, it's the manager. What the f*ck is the craic with that? Is this a Liverpool forum or what, because you'd swear it was full of bitters or Mancs. It's the start of the season for f*ck sake. A few weeks ago people couldn't wait for it to start, and now that it has, the knives are out already and it's f*cking bang out of order IMO.

That is exactly how i feel mate, i dont come on here ( an LFC forum ) to constantly defend the team/manager but if i feel their being unduly attacked your dam right i will because its ma fkin team.
And when we finaly do go out of something we`ll get all the i fkin told you so`s, we get kicked when we`re down
on our own forum ffs.
I say again this is a LFC forum, dont be supprised to find support.
Ive no more to say so i`ll leave the posters in this thread to it.

The fact is though that you know, I know and the world knows there will be an "I told you so" at the end of the season.

I'd :censored: love it lad if it was you sayin it to me. I'd absoloutely love it if i was wrong and clueless and Liverpool blitzed everything, we both know, theres not a cats in hells chance of them doing that.

We are about as likely to win the league as we are to sell Gerrard, Torres and Reina for 50p.

We're :censored: miles away and thats what supporters like me hate. (Real supporters) Who's ploughed thousands and thousands of hard earned money into the club getting let down by watching :censored:. Its annoying lad. Believe me.
Fo Dne
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:27 am
Location: Liverpool

Postby Rush Job » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:17 am

Fo Dne wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:I don't feel the need to jump in and defend him everytime someone slates him. The fact that the main board is now littered with anti-Rafa shyte topics does annoy me, however. There's just been a constant torrent of abuse of certain players in the team, and if its not them, it's the manager. What the f*ck is the craic with that? Is this a Liverpool forum or what, because you'd swear it was full of bitters or Mancs. It's the start of the season for f*ck sake. A few weeks ago people couldn't wait for it to start, and now that it has, the knives are out already and it's f*cking bang out of order IMO.

That is exactly how i feel mate, i dont come on here ( an LFC forum ) to constantly defend the team/manager but if i feel their being unduly attacked your dam right i will because its ma fkin team.
And when we finaly do go out of something we`ll get all the i fkin told you so`s, we get kicked when we`re down
on our own forum ffs.
I say again this is a LFC forum, dont be supprised to find support.
Ive no more to say so i`ll leave the posters in this thread to it.

The fact is though that you know, I know and the world knows there will be an "I told you so" at the end of the season.

I'd :censored: love it lad if it was you sayin it to me. I'd absoloutely love it if i was wrong and clueless and Liverpool blitzed everything, we both know, theres not a cats in hells chance of them doing that.

We are about as likely to win the league as we are to sell Gerrard, Torres and Reina for 50p.

We're :censored: miles away and thats what supporters like me hate. (Real supporters) Who's ploughed thousands and thousands of hard earned money into the club getting let down by watching :censored:. Its annoying lad. Believe me.

But im not saying we are going to win everything, and spending your hard earnt is part of supporting a football team, we all do it mate everyone in all the leagues and we all want the best, thats support.
Getting an "i told you so" when we win isnt being kicked when your down though is it.
Why are you raging and swearing at me??
Last edited by Rush Job on Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dont judge a book by the cover, unless you cover just another, because blind exceptance is a sign,
Of stupid fools who stand in line......  Like..
User avatar
Rush Job
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 2367
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:38 am

Postby Fo Dne » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:22 am

Rush Job wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:I don't feel the need to jump in and defend him everytime someone slates him. The fact that the main board is now littered with anti-Rafa shyte topics does annoy me, however. There's just been a constant torrent of abuse of certain players in the team, and if its not them, it's the manager. What the f*ck is the craic with that? Is this a Liverpool forum or what, because you'd swear it was full of bitters or Mancs. It's the start of the season for f*ck sake. A few weeks ago people couldn't wait for it to start, and now that it has, the knives are out already and it's f*cking bang out of order IMO.

That is exactly how i feel mate, i dont come on here ( an LFC forum ) to constantly defend the team/manager but if i feel their being unduly attacked your dam right i will because its ma fkin team.
And when we finaly do go out of something we`ll get all the i fkin told you so`s, we get kicked when we`re down
on our own forum ffs.
I say again this is a LFC forum, dont be supprised to find support.
Ive no more to say so i`ll leave the posters in this thread to it.

The fact is though that you know, I know and the world knows there will be an "I told you so" at the end of the season.

I'd :censored: love it lad if it was you sayin it to me. I'd absoloutely love it if i was wrong and clueless and Liverpool blitzed everything, we both know, theres not a cats in hells chance of them doing that.

We are about as likely to win the league as we are to sell Gerrard, Torres and Reina for 50p.

We're :censored: miles away and thats what supporters like me hate. (Real supporters) Who's ploughed thousands and thousands of hard earned money into the club getting let down by watching :censored:. Its annoying lad. Believe me.

But im not saying we are going to win everything, and spending your hard earnt is part of supporting a football team, we all do it mate everyone in all the leagues and we all want the best, thats support.
Why are you raging and swearing at me??

Ya preachin about support and its :censored: cheeky.

I even :censored: moved house to be nearer the ground so I could walk to games. I know about support. But am gettin really sick of it.

Its about time people start to wake up and make themselves heard regarding this club. Something drastic needs to happen or we'll be like this forever. This last two years has been unbearable, watching him built a good side then destroy it and take us backwards to the extent we are going at.
Fo Dne
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:27 am
Location: Liverpool

Postby Rush Job » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:38 am

Fo Dne wrote:Ya preachin about support and its :censored: cheeky.

I even :censored: moved house to be nearer the ground so I could walk to games. I know about support. But am gettin really sick of it.

So its ok for you to speak about support but not me?
And why is this because your the bigger supporter?
And how are we judging?
Money spent?
So you know best because youve spent the most.
Now we hit the truth, your p!ssed off because your not happy with your return. :laugh:
Once again mate, thats support, no one made you move house ya sily get, pmsl. :laugh:
When did you do that late 05 early 06. :laugh:

No need to go off on one, im only messin.
Ive never laughed so much righting a post.
Dont judge a book by the cover, unless you cover just another, because blind exceptance is a sign,
Of stupid fools who stand in line......  Like..
User avatar
Rush Job
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 2367
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:38 am

Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:35 am

maguskwt wrote:we need to start winning convincingly soon... otherwise we will start killing each other... :D

celebrity deathmatch
User avatar
maypaxvobiscum
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:02 am
Location: Singapore

Postby dawson99 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:18 am

completely agree with the opening statement. He may have been wrong on many occasions but this time hes spot on .:D

We're going backwards, we're the little train that can't in the megabucks premier league now and we are becoming a laughing stock already. The thing si, half the people see unbeaten and sitting pretty in the league and 'only 3 games in, nothing to worry about'
the other half of us, however, see the deep uderlying disturbing fact that we aint doing things right. the management of the team is always the same - bizarre. the substitions are ones even christian gross wouldnt be caught making and something HAS to change. At the moment we are just a cup team, and thats just nowhere near good enough for us.
0118 999 881 999 119 7253
Image
User avatar
dawson99
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 25377
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:56 pm
Location: in the mo fo hood y'all

Postby 66-1112520797 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:30 am

I agree with the gist of Stus' post, I cannot help but think after that drossy perfomance and result at Villa park is what has got him in this mood.

Basically we all knew Rafa's "problems" whether it be questionable signings, rotation blah blah blah the list goes on. All this before the season even started.

If people were that unhappy about him being here they should have voiced it before the season began, not now, you should all know what to expect from him.

He needs to see out the season at least IMO, not point in sacking the bloke now, its knee jerkish.
Last edited by 66-1112520797 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
66-1112520797
 

Postby Leonmc0708 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:40 am

Please can we refrain from questioning each others level of support its tedious and has no definitive answer.
JUSTICE FOR THE 96

Image
User avatar
Leonmc0708
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 8420
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:44 am
Location: SEFTON SHED

Postby account deleted by request » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:34 am

Fo Dne wrote:Right, I have to get all this off my chest.

I'm absoloutely fuming with Sunday's result. The main reason is that I expected it. Its just typical of Liverpool to find themselves in a good position before the start of play, and by the end to have completely :censored: it up through a complete lack of quality. Its something we're all becoming used to and to be honest, its starting to ware really thin with me.

Now, in the scheme of things, a draw away at Villa would be considered an acceptable result, especially without your two best players. More teams will go there and lose this season than will win. But what annoyed me the most was the mannor in which we got the result and performance yet again, along with the substituions and rediculous team selection which were again incredibley naive to say the least.

Playing no left side, playing an average striker on the wing AGAIN, playing Lucas...

Then bringing on Ngog, not recognising the teams failings, taking Keane and Kuyt off and replacing them with a defender and midfielder, its a joke. Its not a one off either, things like this happen regularly, far to regularly.

Rafa is in his fifth season now as LFC's manager and to be quite honest, the state of this team is awful. We have very average personel in a number of positions and despite him being here for so long, the problems within the team haven't been addressed and we still find ourselves lacking in to many departments.

The signings, for the large part aren't good enough. Now, I keep hearing money being mentioned. Its absoloutely no excuse. He's had millions and millions, plus he already had Hyypia, Carragher and Gerrard before he arrived who were all more than good enough to play in a championship winning team. I keep seeing players like Evra, Woodgate, Ashton, Boateng, moving around for the same prices we're signing absoloute rubbish.

Now its all well and good saying Chelsea can spend £40,000,000 a year on a player. Of course they can and that makes it difficult. But money doesn't always sign you quality and Rafa has had more than enough money to build a top class team. Obviously, financially we can't compete with United and Chelsea. But we can compete with Spurs, with Newcastle, Everton, Villa, West Ham, Portsmouth and Arsenal.

All of those teams have large numbers of players who'd get into our team and improve it and they've all signed players who'd have got into our team over the last few years that are alot better than what we have. Now with some of them, theres the risk of injury's and attitude. But I'm sorry, they are risks we HAVE to take to an extent due to our financial situation in comparrison to the top clubs. If you look at there teams, most of them are pretty similar to ours but without Gerrard and Torres. Now, I sit here looking at Spurs, They have a top class goalkeeper, one of the best around for me, (I'm not complaining about Pepe, I think he's been amazing for us and wouldn't swap him), they have two centre halfs who are far better than ours, they have a far better left back and a better right back. Now, defensively I'm not sure they have the perfect balance and obviously Woodgate and King are injury prone players, however, both are top players and far better than anything we have. I ask you, put Gerrard and Torres in there best 11 and would they have a better line up, I'm more than 100% sure they would.

I only used Spurs as an example though, thats what worries me, you could do the same with alot of sides in our league and you'd get the same result.

The other problem we have is the massive turnover of players aswell. We keep signing players in the same positions all the time. Go and sign a young but class player and play him in the right position. Its not rocket science. For example, £20,000,000 on Richards, ok, its alot of money, but its ya right back position or centre half (wherever ya want him to play) sorted for the next ten years. Then the year after you can add another peice of the jigsaw, and so on and so on.

A few years ago, when we finished on 82 points we had a class TEAM. Crouch was doing well, Kewell was performing, Alonso and Sissoko were doing the business, Gerrard was on fire, the defence was solid and Reina was :censored: quality. We then Added Fowler who seemed to add another dimension to our play and improve us even further. That side looked like it was going places, what it lacked was depth and options. We lacked a natural wide right player as an option (which is why i was made up with Pennant) and we lacked a backup striker as Morientes wasn't really upto it, we lacked the pace option upfront aswell.

Now that teams main weakness was the bench, the Harry Kewell situation and the left back and probably Crouch, but he was performing his role. Anyway, that summer Rafa decides to go out and sign the right winger, brilliant I'm thinking, real progress. Then the pacey striker comes in as an option, Bellamy. Ok, not who i wanted but not a bad player and will give us something different and I thought, right, this year, start with the same team and introduce the new faces slowly as subs and give them game time.

Instead what happens, Bellamy and Kuyt pretty much become first choice strikers which effectively made the signing of Pennant a waste of time. Then the three of them end up in our starting eleven completely :censored: up the balance of the team and making us look ordinary once again. We went backwards, any it wasn't a step backwards, it was a leap. We had a balanced side that was looking strong and potentially top class, then Fowler gets :censored: off, Crouch loses his place, Pennant's signed to provide crosses then finds out the players he would have been good for aren't in the side and everything falls to bits.

Over the next couple of years the problems weren't addressed and we now find ourself in a poor situation in my opinion.

For me, Hyypia is the best centre half I've seen at Liverpool since Mark Wright, who was easily equal to or better than. He's never been adequately replaced and is still our best centre back. We've never had a great left back, Riise was good on his day but no consistency and prone to the hoof but this Dossena bloke looks absoloutely no better. The lad can cross a ball, but he can't defend for toffee and he's just as prone to the hoof. His movements also awful. On the right, we went from the brilliant Markus Babbel, to the more than decent and very steady Steve Finnan to Arbeloa, who's nothing more than an average full back in the Luke Young mould, maybe not even that good.

In midfield Gerrard is still there but has been abused by the manager completely. If you're going to play him centre mid, :censored: play him there and leave him alone and build the side around him. If not, play him on the right and leave him there, again building the side around him. Don't put him where you feel like, put him somewhere and get the best out of him and leave him there for good.

The midfield lacks balance completely. Mascherano and Gerrard aren't a good pairning at all. They are quite frankly an awful one in my opinion, they are flat and neither have the ability to dicate a game and take up the right positions in attacking areas to influence the game in that mannor and help us with our attacking play. Alonso and Gerrard for me is the best combination, as much as I like Mascherano, I think he's the wrong type of player for us, in Chelsea's system he'd be incredible but we don't and never have played that way.

We then have Lucas Levia who for me shouldn't be anywhere near a Liverpool team. He's awful to be quite honest and IMO another £6-7m wasted.

Upfront Keane and Kuyt are decent enough to play off Torres. Kuyt isn't anywhere near as bad as made out, but he's not a great player. He just solid, he's decent at knock downs and link play and he's a battler and a believer. However, he's not and never will be a wide player and its unfair asking him to play there as he looks hopelessly out of his depth.

The truth is we're absoloutely miles away.

Now more so than ever I feel. I genuinely believe Torres, Keane, Alonso, Gerrard, Carragher and Reina need a team build around them the thing is we don't have the years left anymore like we did, Keane, Gerrard and Carragher aren't young players any more. Mascherano for me doesn't really suit the style of play and I think the rest just aren't upto it.

I'm really depressed with the team at the minute and I can't see this season being a good one in any way shape or form.

I want Lucas, Babel, Voronin, Bennayoun, Dossena, Skrytel and Pennant all to be shown the door and new blood brough in. I don't want to see Arbeloa in the team every week and I am getting sick of the constant playing players out of position, bad sigings, bad excuses, bigging up of woeful performances andawful players.

Rafa thinks we're all stupid and to be honest I want him out. Now. I'm sick of it.

Thanks for the Champions league and other cups wins. I loved every second, but you'll never win us the league. Shut the door on your way out and leave now before you become a hate figure like Houllier.

I think its time to get back to the original post and try to have a sensible discussion rather than people waving their willies in the air .

I think you make some very good points Stu, I agree that we have taken a couple of large steps backwards over the last couple of seasons, but thats partly due to the loss of Kewell (no fault of Rafa) and Hyypia/Finnan getting older (no fault of Rafa) although you could criticise him for not bringing adequate replacements in quickly enough.

We have brought in a few good players since (Agger/Masch/Torres, but unfortunately Rafa has changed the whole dynamic of the team. What was a reasonably well balanced team back in 2006, that appeared to be just short of a good striker (or two)and cover on the right now seems to have problems all over the pitch.

Our defence which had Hyypia and Carra at the heart was well balanced (if a little slow) while we now seem vulnerable both in the air and from any kind of cross into the box.(Even with two defensive midfield players shielding them!)I disagree with you about Agger, I think he is a very good player, but without a partner who is dominant in the air BOTH Agger and Carra can be vulnerable. Its more a partnership problem than just that Agger is not good enough.

Our midfield even with the addition of Mascherano seems unable to dictate a game whereas with the less able Sissoko we seemed fairly comfortable as our two central midfielders actually worked in different areas of the pitch instead of standing next to one another.

Up front we have Gerrard /Torres/ Keane...... even Rafa's most fierce critic must admit that we have seen improvement up front, yet because of the problem of balance out wide we have struggled to score, struggled to create chances and have been dependent in most games on the individual brilliance of Gerrard and Torres. 

A team that looked only slightly short of being a title winning side has within a couple of years become a side that looks as if we may struggle to get top four, even with the addition of 2 of the best players in the prem (Masch /Torres)

Maybe the addition of Riera will give us some sort of balance, but if the midfield continues to play as they are WITHOUT any creativity going forward we will continue to struggle (imo).

Trying to get square pegs like Kuyt and Babel into round holes has only added to our problems, as any sort of flowing football just grinds to a halt as soon as the ball reaches them.

All this and we still don't seem to have found the right role for our best player Gerrard.
Last edited by account deleted by request on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
account deleted by request
 
Posts: 20690
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 am

Postby LiverpoolMadman » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:40 am

I think the final straw is after the MAN :censored: Match .... that's depend how we play and the result of the match .... Maybe the force be with you , RAFA ....
User avatar
LiverpoolMadman
 
Posts: 3320
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:55 am

Postby Number 9 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:46 am

On Saints last point about Gerrard I think the sensible option is to put Gerrard back out right and leave him there!Of course a lot of this depends on Riera bringing quality to the left,if he can IMO this is the most balanced MF we have

             Gerrard  Alonso Masch  Riera

Of course a lot depends if as I said Riera can perform and also Alonso regaining his form of old!If they can I reckon that should be our MF in most games!
Image
User avatar
Number 9
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 7601
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:19 pm
Location: South Belfast

Postby GYBS » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:55 am

Or think we can go back to the formation that served us very well last year and play

-------------Mash------Xabi-----------

Kuyt---------------Gerrard---------Riera

---------------Torres--------------------

Suits all players - Mash and xabi pulling the strings and providing protection, Kuyt playing in the position he found great form for both club and country - riera finnaly giving us width on the left - gerrard providing that spark and support he did so brilliantly last season and enabled him to form a great understanding with torres - and torres being up top on his own enabling him to use all that space that he loves doing so much . leaves babel as an impact sub and cover for both riera and kuyt so they can be rotated around - also keane can come in for gerrard or torres if needed - gives us both options for change and options on the pitch and more fluid .
Image
User avatar
GYBS
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 8647
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:42 pm
Location: Oxford

Postby LegBarnes » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:55 am

Number 9 wrote:On Saints last point about Gerrard I think the sensible option is to put Gerrard back out right and leave him there!Of course a lot of this depends on Riera bringing quality to the left,if he can IMO this is the most balanced MF we have

             Gerrard  Alonso Masch  Riera

Of course a lot depends if as I said Riera can perform and also Alonso regaining his form of old!If they can I reckon that should be our MF in most games!

no way babel on right gerrard attacking midfield with masch behind him
LegBarnes
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:05 pm

Postby LegBarnes » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:02 am

GYBS wrote:Or think we can go back to the formation that served us very well last year and play

-------------Mash------Xabi-----------

Kuyt---------------Gerrard---------Riera

---------------Torres--------------------

Suits all players - Mash and xabi pulling the strings and providing protection, Kuyt playing in the position he found great form for both club and country - riera finnaly giving us width on the left - gerrard providing that spark and support he did so brilliantly last season and enabled him to form a great understanding with torres - and torres being up top on his own enabling him to use all that space that he loves doing so much . leaves babel as an impact sub and cover for both riera and kuyt so they can be rotated around - also keane can come in for gerrard or torres if needed - gives us both options for change and options on the pitch and more fluid .

we should use this line up imo.


                  Reina

  Arbeloa    Carra    Agger     Dossena


               Mascherano

Babel        Alonso/gerrard        Riera


            Keane
                     Torres/Ngog

Alonso/gerrard is gerrard is ok to play
Same with Torres/Ngog or mabye Kuyt.
LegBarnes
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:05 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 124 guests

  • Advertisement
ShopTill-e