Liverpool FC Forum

[83-1165214211]

Firstly before any numbnutz says is this a Rafa out thread no it is not. The mans a living legend and I love him to peices for whats he's done so far. He's also tactically extremely clever and potentially a world class manager...

He has however up this season and NEEDS to have a look at himself and the things he's done and learn from it.

An absoloutely awful first half to the season. Quite simple really...

Poor management, poor team selections, poor signings and a little bit of bad luck aswell.

Firstly the "bad luck". I'm not a fan of this excuse at all. But missing Kewell and Sissoko for long periods has caused us massive problems this season. Especially Kewell's absence. Kewell was excellent at times last season and held the ball up aswell as using the ball intelligently he helped out defensively and gave us good balance. We've missed that this season. Sissoko's loss hasn't been as important for me, however its still not allowed us to place out a tried and trusted midfield.

Secondly the team selections. A blind man can see that Liverpool have been playing BETTER (not good) football in the previous weeks so why change is again? Why does Rafa feel the need to fix something that isn't broken? I like rotation, i think it works. The pace the games played at these days you HAVE to rotate but you don't drop an on form player or your best player unless you have equal quality to replace them. Rafa often goes on about percentages and how its important that players are at 100%. Often the case but not always, you lose percentages when teams arent settled just as much as you do from rotation, you lose that telapathy, you lose confidence in players knowing that no matter how they play they could be on the bench the week after... Also, why has the defence changed so much last season? We were outstanding at the back this year, we've been very average so far. Agger has shown promise but thats all. He's not at Sami's level yet and we miss Hyypia when he doesn't play alot. The best back four is the one that played last season.

Poor management comes under the tactics and team selections. Crouch in for Kuyt at the weekend? Why? Playing out and out wingers who like a cross when theres two forwards who can't head a ball to save there life in there? Why? Playing a 3 man midfield? Why? Taking strikers off when you're losing? Why? Not playing your best goalscorer and one of your best players? Why?

The signings over the years...

Aurelio - Seems excellent technically but poor physically. He doesn't seem to have the mentallity either nor the tactical quality to play in defence...

Gonzalez - Quite simply not good enough and never a Liverpool player. Has shown glimpses of quality occassionally but never had a good 90 minutes.

Kuyt - I like, a decent player, but not good enough to be our main striker. He's a decent finisher not a great one and he's awful in the air. His ability to attack a moving ball and anticipate something in the box isn't great either. He's fairly strong and the ball does stick alot of the time with him but it should stick more than it does.

Pennant - Has shown glimpses but in general looks petrified to play at the minute. Looks like he knows this is his last chance and has no belief in his play. Simply isn't showing what he's capable of. Also, the point in him playing with Bellamy and Kuyt is what exactly? Pennant's a good crosser, Fowler attacks the ball as he shown against Galatasary, Kuyt and Bellamy don't. The aren't going to score goals from crosses. Feel sorry for the lad at the minute.

Crouch - Why did we pay £7million when Ashton went for 7million to West Ham? Crouch has better dribbling ability than Ashton, Ashton pisses all over him at EVERYTHING else bar height.

Bellamy - £6million. A good player, definately. Like him, got him for his value. First choice though? Do me a fucking favour. We're used to Owen's, Fowler's, Rush's...

The ones that got away...

Ashton £7m, self explanatory. Better than all of our strikers. Better finisher than them all, more of a goalscorer than them all and can play with his back to goal better than them all.

Anelka £8m, pace and quality personified. Excellent player. Him and Ashton would have been a hell of a partnership. Pace, power, intelligence, goals, strength, arial ability, poaching and Anelka even runs the channels.

Bullard £2m, a bit of quality on the ball in the attacking third. Will make a pass, take an extra touch, make a decoy run, will try and play a one two, can dicate the play in the opponents half of the pitch aswell as covering more ground than nearly every player in the league. A workhorse with quality at a bargain price.

              Ashton         Anelka
Kewell                                     Gerrard
              Alonso         Bullard   

Riise        Hyypia       Carragher    Finnan
       
                       Reina

Would have been nice... Still...

We lack quality individuals. Fowler is still an excellent player and never gets a look in and certain players we have aren't as good as made out. Its as simple as that.

[83-1165214211]

Also i forgot to add in the "bad luck" playing all the best sides away consecutively.

[dawson99]

Ashton, anelka, bullard?

some people just dont know when to be quiet. gonzales is gonna take time to bed in, we can see what he can do, the same with Aurelio if you ask me.

How bullard gets into our team ahead of momo i will never know!!!

And bellamy and kuyt have been playing fine if you ask me as well. Of course it would be nice to have someone like Ashton and maybe anelka would stay at least 3 months before starting one of his sulks.

how you think you could get ashton for 8 million is a good one tho, get that as ajoke in one of the xmas crackers?

What we need is hunger, desire, a quickening of pace and it will all work out. Add to that the fantasic performances of keepers against us and i think you'll see what a team we have.

fowler doesnt get a look in because hes a chubby old guy now. No offence to god as we all like to call him but he was never gonna be a first choice in the team, he knew it, we knew it. He will take up a coaching role next season no doubt.

Crouch was in for kuyt the same way that ferguson didnt start rooney or ronaldo, wenger is resting players, all the managers are. Even maureen is startnig to see some gaps in his team with all the games. We rest players against the so called lesser sides, and those are the games when the so called lesser sides raise their games....

we have had some gawd awful luck as well

[redmikey]

bullard instead of momo ?

speedy not a lfc player and pennat is?

there are some people that always shout for the in form people to be snapped up this instant, barton ,swp,yakubu,ashton,bent, etc etc   the only way to build a world class squad is to have world class players and rafa is trying to do that on a budjet at the moment but has still pulled out some top buys, xabi,momo,pepe

i think you have made some middle of the road points but i can't see why?

[83-1165214211]

Ashton, anelka, bullard?

some people just dont know when to be quiet. gonzales is gonna take time to bed in, we can see what he can do, the same with Aurelio if you ask me.

How bullard gets into our team ahead of momo i will never know!!!

And bellamy and kuyt have been playing fine if you ask me as well. Of course it would be nice to have someone like Ashton and maybe anelka would stay at least 3 months before starting one of his sulks.

how you think you could get ashton for 8 million is a good one tho, get that as ajoke in one of the xmas crackers?

What we need is hunger, desire, a quickening of pace and it will all work out. Add to that the fantasic performances of keepers against us and i think you'll see what a team we have.

fowler doesnt get a look in because hes a chubby old guy now. No offence to god as we all like to call him but he was never gonna be a first choice in the team, he knew it, we knew it. He will take up a coaching role next season no doubt.

Crouch was in for kuyt the same way that ferguson didnt start rooney or ronaldo, wenger is resting players, all the managers are. Even maureen is startnig to see some gaps in his team with all the games. We rest players against the so called lesser sides, and those are the games when the so called lesser sides raise their games....

we have had some gawd awful luck as well

Yes Ashton, Anelka, Bullard. Players with quality and ability as footballers as apose to one or two outstanding attributes.

As for bedding in, get real. You either have it or you don't. Gonzalez can play till he's 50 and will never be a footballer. If he makes the grade i'll eat my hat. My suspicion is he'll be a DECENT player at the very very best. Compare him to Ronaldo, Giggs, Pires or Overmars for christs sake.

As for Bullard, you might actually care to watch the lad play. I've seen him numurous times, I've seen him stand out like a saw thumb when Wigan got trounced at old trafford the other year. The lads got a touch, can spot a pass, works hard and tactically understands the game. He links with players, can shoot and isn't selfish. He's got a brain and quality on the ball.

Momo, for all his work isn't a great footballer. He's a decent ball winning midfielder. Its as simple as that. The amount of some people talk is unbelievable.

As for Bellamy and Kuyt, they may be to your pathetic expectations just like Cisse, but i've seen Litmanen, Fowler, Owen, Rush and even Collymore and Heskey on there day and neither can be compared to any.

As for the risk factor, how you can choose to ignore the fact that Bellamy's just been to frigging court and is hated be most of his ex team mates and the country i don't see how can possibley even CONSIDER using that Against Anelka who kept his gob shut and never once had anything negative to say about this club.

Also, Ashton was signed for West Ham for £7.25million. £250k more than we signed Crouch. Awful choice.

Fantastic performances keepers have against us?   get bloody real. You put Fowler, Owen, Shearer, Crespo, Henry infront of a goalkeeper and more often that not its in the back of the net. They can finish, they don't give a keeper a chance. Crouch's unmarked header from 5 yards the other day was an absoloute discrage. He actually took pace off the ball and headed it in the one place Friedel could reach it... TWICE!

As for resting Kuyt and replacing him with Crouch. Thats the point. We replace Kuyt with Crouch and leave Fowler out of the squad. United rest Rooney and Ronaldo and bring in Giggs, Larsson, Saha, Scholes. Theres a class difference.

The bit highlighted is the bit that I had to laugh at most. He scores goals. End of story. He has class and intelligence and more importantly... again... HE SCORES GOALS! He reads the game, controls the ball, passes the ball and puts it in the onion bag. He done it last year. He's done it this year. He needs to play. He scores goals. He's got half of what crouch has and nearly as many as Kuyt and Bellamy and look at how many games he's played fot christs sake....

[dawson99]

Exactly, we leave fowler out. Why is that?

do you think it might have something to do with the fact that Rafa knows just a little bit more about the team than you do?

I agree with most of what you say. Crouch isnt good enough, but also quite a bit of what you say is tedious, arrogantly written and poorly thought out.

"well IVE seen this and IVE seen that" Do you really think we care? And do you really think that your input is that much mroe valid than ours? Yes bullard is a good player. Isnt there a chance he will never play again tho? and you would rather him than momo? You dont really support liverpool do you?

so dont call me pathetic then talk about what YOUVE seen. Weve all seen things. ive seen norden wooter and ive seen chris sutton. Ive seen Mendietta when he was at Valencia and ive seen barnes many many times. I dont ramble on about it though.

Fowler is not starting because Rafa is not playing him. and rafa knows considerabbly more about football than you will ever know.

As for tact, i think mel gibson at a bar mitzvah when drunk is politer than you.

[83-1165214211]

bullard instead of momo ?

speedy not a lfc player and pennat is?

there are some people that always shout for the in form people to be snapped up this instant, barton ,swp,yakubu,ashton,bent, etc etc   the only way to build a world class squad is to have world class players and rafa is trying to do that on a budjet at the moment but has still pulled out some top buys, xabi,momo,pepe

i think you have made some middle of the road points but i can't see why?

Yes Bullard instead of Momo.

Yes Pennant is a good player and "Speedy" isn't.

If you actually knew me you would clearly know I'm not one of the clueless blurts who shout for the SWP's, Bent's and Yakubu's of the world. I like players. Propper footballers. Who can pass a ball.

As for paying top wack and needing a high budget for "world class players" you don't at all. You need quality but the right mix is essential. Momo adds a balance but not a great deal of quality. You replace him with a better player who can pass a ball and help dictate a game and you're laughing.

Ashton went the same price as Crouch and less than Kuyt yet is better than both. Bullard would walk into our side yet went for £2-3million. Anelka went for less than Kuyt and is a better player again. Its how you spend the money available and with the exception of Alonso and Reina I don't believe Rafa has spent the money wisely at all.

There is a case for Momo, Bellamy and but i FIRMLY believe he could have done an awful lot better, for the same moulds of players but with a hell of a lot more quality.

[dawson99]

its about more than money and individuals, its about how the team works, and rafa made his choices

[83-1165214211]

Exactly, we leave fowler out. Why is that?

do you think it might have something to do with the fact that Rafa knows just a little bit more about the team than you do?

I agree with most of what you say. Crouch isnt good enough, but also quite a bit of what you say is tedious, arrogantly written and poorly thought out.

"well IVE seen this and IVE seen that" Do you really think we care? And do you really think that your input is that much mroe valid than ours? Yes bullard is a good player. Isnt there a chance he will never play again tho? and you would rather him than momo? You dont really support liverpool do you?

so dont call me pathetic then talk about what YOUVE seen. Weve all seen things. ive seen norden wooter and ive seen chris sutton. Ive seen Mendietta when he was at Valencia and ive seen barnes many many times. I dont ramble on about it though.

Fowler is not starting because Rafa is not playing him. and rafa knows considerabbly more about football than you will ever know.

As for tact, i think mel gibson at a bar mitzvah when drunk is politer than you.

Yes because you can't question Benitez. How dare we? Us mere mortals. None of us are ever correct if he says differently are we? Dya know what... thats a contradiction, you'll question me, but I can't question Benitez. Get to fuck.

As for politeness? So what? Why should i be polite to you?

[83-1165214211]

its about more than money and individuals, its about how the team works, and rafa made his choices

And got it wrong.

[aCe']

STR...  u are one arrogant fcking baastard... but i agree with almost every fcking word you said.... except for the bullard part... ddnt see enough of him to judge and sissoko is a very good player for us..
all about quality... and at the moment... we lag behind !
all of the sht the ppl in this forum come up with is just sickening at times... "give me bellamy ahead of shevchenko any day of the week" MYY A.sssssss !
and yes you are right... rafa did mess up quite a decent bit this season !

[peterc1992]

,momo is and will be one of the best defensive midfielders in the english game and he is a brilliant signing,i wouldnt play him instead of bullard,i dont like anelka because,hes greedy,but good and crouch is a good player along with bellamy and gonzalez is quick and is a bit  unexpierienced but in a few years hel be a mighty player,

[RichardLFC1]

Anelka and Ashton in for Kuyt and Bellamy. Kuyt is an excellent player and has not really been of form since joining us look at his debut he came of the bench and was phenominal. Bellamy is just finding his feet and has delivered a string of Greeat Performances. Jimmy Bullard who was doing great for fulham is good for those sort of teams i.e the likes of Wigan Fulham Middlesborough but liverpool have 3 class Cm in Gerrard alonso and Sissoko. My views are Gerrard should stick in the centre but if he is going to be pushed to the right then Atleast let it be for Two absoulute gems in defending midfeild.

[83-1165214211]

,momo is and will be one of the best defensive midfielders in the english game and he is a brilliant signing,i wouldnt play him instead of bullard,i dont like anelka because,hes greedy,but good and crouch is a good player along with bellamy and gonzalez is quick and is a bit  unexpierienced but in a few years hel be a mighty player,

Take the blinkers off and remember that statement in a few years. I won't go to town on you because you're only a child, but i will say two things you will do well to remember...

1. You can't make diamonds out of .

2. You either have it or you don't.

[Rush Job]

,Firstly before any numbnutz says is this a Rafa out thread no it is not. The mans a living legend and I love him to peices for whats he's done so far. He's also tactically extremely clever and potentially a world class manager...

He has however up this season and NEEDS to have a look at himself and the things he's done and learn from it.

An absoloutely awful first half to the season. Quite simple really...

Poor management, poor team selections, poor signings and a little bit of bad luck aswell.

Firstly the "bad luck". I'm not a fan of this excuse at all. But missing Kewell and Sissoko for long periods has caused us massive problems this season. Especially Kewell's absence. Kewell was excellent at times last season and held the ball up aswell as using the ball intelligently he helped out defensively and gave us good balance. We've missed that this season. Sissoko's loss hasn't been as important for me, however its still not allowed us to place out a tried and trusted midfield.

Secondly the team selections. A blind man can see that Liverpool have been playing BETTER (not good) football in the previous weeks so why change is again? Why does Rafa feel the need to fix something that isn't broken? I like rotation, i think it works. The pace the games played at these days you HAVE to rotate but you don't drop an on form player or your best player unless you have equal quality to replace them. Rafa often goes on about percentages and how its important that players are at 100%. Often the case but not always, you lose percentages when teams arent settled just as much as you do from rotation, you lose that telapathy, you lose confidence in players knowing that no matter how they play they could be on the bench the week after... Also, why has the defence changed so much last season? We were outstanding at the back this year, we've been very average so far. Agger has shown promise but thats all. He's not at Sami's level yet and we miss Hyypia when he doesn't play alot. The best back four is the one that played last season.

Poor management comes under the tactics and team selections. Crouch in for Kuyt at the weekend? Why? Playing out and out wingers who like a cross when theres two forwards who can't head a ball to save there life in there? Why? Playing a 3 man midfield? Why? Taking strikers off when you're losing? Why? Not playing your best goalscorer and one of your best players? Why?

The signings over the years...

Aurelio - Seems excellent technically but poor physically. He doesn't seem to have the mentallity either nor the tactical quality to play in defence...

Gonzalez - Quite simply not good enough and never a Liverpool player. Has shown glimpses of quality occassionally but never had a good 90 minutes.

Kuyt - I like, a decent player, but not good enough to be our main striker. He's a decent finisher not a great one and he's awful in the air. His ability to attack a moving ball and anticipate something in the box isn't great either. He's fairly strong and the ball does stick alot of the time with him but it should stick more than it does.

Pennant - Has shown glimpses but in general looks petrified to play at the minute. Looks like he knows this is his last chance and has no belief in his play. Simply isn't showing what he's capable of. Also, the point in him playing with Bellamy and Kuyt is what exactly? Pennant's a good crosser, Fowler attacks the ball as he shown against Galatasary, Kuyt and Bellamy don't. The aren't going to score goals from crosses. Feel sorry for the lad at the minute.

Crouch - Why did we pay £7million when Ashton went for 7million to West Ham? Crouch has better dribbling ability than Ashton, Ashton pisses all over him at EVERYTHING else bar height.

Bellamy - £6million. A good player, definately. Like him, got him for his value. First choice though? Do me a fucking favour. We're used to Owen's, Fowler's, Rush's...

The ones that got away...

Ashton £7m, self explanatory. Better than all of our strikers. Better finisher than them all, more of a goalscorer than them all and can play with his back to goal better than them all.

Anelka £8m, pace and quality personified. Excellent player. Him and Ashton would have been a hell of a partnership. Pace, power, intelligence, goals, strength, arial ability, poaching and Anelka even runs the channels.

Bullard £2m, a bit of quality on the ball in the attacking third. Will make a pass, take an extra touch, make a decoy run, will try and play a one two, can dicate the play in the opponents half of the pitch aswell as covering more ground than nearly every player in the league. A workhorse with quality at a bargain price.

              Ashton         Anelka
Kewell                                     Gerrard
              Alonso         Bullard   

Riise        Hyypia       Carragher    Finnan
       
                       Reina

Would have been nice... Still...

We lack quality individuals. Fowler is still an excellent player and never gets a look in and certain players we have aren't as good as made out. Its as simple as that.

you say it isn`t a Rafa out post so then what is it.
IMHO to many fans hail Rafa for his successes but then moan he hasnt done enough, have a go at his tacticts his signings his team sellections forgeting it was his selection his team that won the FA cup, his selection his team that got us our biggest points haul we have had in the prem and most other years would have won us it, his inspired words that got us on
our way in Istanbull.
You cant say i love Rafa but then on the other hand he`s shi.t  "poor management , poor team selections poor signings".
None of us like were we are in the league at the moment but we have got to believe the Boss is the best man for the job and that he`s got a team not far away from challenging.
It was always going to be hard going from a Champions league place side to a league winning side but i don`t think we are that far away, we have been punished for slopy performances too many top players below par, our best player for what ever  reason going missing to many times but we are going in the right direction and we are and will improve even if sometimes the result says different.
We are a good side who have let are selves down this season but i dont blame the Boss, i dont know how anyone can have a go at his transfer deals, he`s brought some gems to anfield without paying other the odds and i include Crouch, he`s improved us again this season. We have a solid defence quality midfield and a good choise of forwards, a bit more craft, cunning, creativity and a few more goals in those important games and we`er their.That could be as little as one world class player, it took them Cantonar i think it could be something similar with us but i dont think Bullards the man ( for sake ).
Its really not that bad dont you remember Souness?
.