Liverpool FC Forum

[JBG]

The "small budget" argument is pointless as O'Neill did nothing special in the league. If Liverpool fans want us to be mid-table then he is more than qualified

I've already given two examples of managers getting teams up there, but here are a few examples :

2003/2004 Charlton 4th (currently)
2002/2003 Everton 7th
2001/2002 West Ham 7th
2000/2001 Ipswich 5th, Sunderland 7th
1999/2000 Sunderland 7th
1998/1999 West Ham 5th
1997/1998 West Ham 8th
1996/1997 Wimbledon 8th
1995/1996 Everton 7th, West Ham 10th

They may not have finished in the top four but they've done no worse than Leicester under golden balls. You can argue it wasn't done consistently, bar West Ham, but if O'Neill is so good how come he never got that high? (cue money argument, yet to see any hard stats and I can't be ar$ed to dig around on such a small point)

My point, and I keep having to reiterate it, is not that O'Neill is ***** but that his reputation is such that he would be linked with God's job if there ever was a vacancy. Other managers have done what he has, why do so many of you think the sun shines out of his ar$e?

Getting Ispwich, West Ham and Sunderland up to such high places were fine achievements by their manaagers, but both Ispwich and West Ham were relegated the following season and Sunderland not long afterwards.

Keeping Leicester in mid table is a fine achievement, but if you read my post Owzat you'll see that its only one of many arguements that I have made in favour of MON.

My point is that MON has probably done as well as he possibly can with all the clubs he has managed given their resources and ambitions and I see absolutely no reason to see why he cannot take the final step up to the next level with a club of Liverpool's size and succeeding.

Owzat, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but there's probably no point in arguing over it as GH will be kept on by our weak board next season.

I think that privately Moores and Parry have already sat down with GH and assured him that he'll be here next year no matter what.

[XSD]

Another good post JBG, yeah I've thought for a while O'Neil would be the best man. He's achieved as much with the clubs as possible and continues to ascend in terms of the clubs he manages, Liverpool would be the perfect next step.
He doesn't have a house full of European trophies but I have little doubt he'll do better than GH.

[Owzat]

Owzat, you still haven't convinced me that MON isn't the guy for the job.

JBG, you still haven't convinced me that MON is the guy for the job.

[Cool Hand Luke]

No doubt that MON has done well where he has gone, and he could go on to be a hugely respected manager.

But for me he still hasen't acheived anything to put him in the top bracket, his achievements at Celtic are good but I still see it as an extended holiday for him.

If he were the next manager I would be pleased as long as he does not adopt the 5-3-2 formation which he likes.

[XSD]

The way I see it (and I'm sure I speak for a lot of people) Liverpool are in a vicious downwards circle so long as Houllier remains boss, this season we are struggling to get 4th and stay in the UEFA, next season our realistic aim is to be in the top 10?

Martin O'Neil has never shown he is a bad manager, and seems so be one of the favourites for most clubs should they need to replace their manager. We can either snap him up quick and see what he's made of or just let Houllier do some more damage, someone else grab O'Neil and watch them climb to success; then have a struggle to find a decent manager to replace Houllier.

[Owzat]

But for me he still hasen't acheived anything to put him in the top bracket, his achievements at Celtic are good but I still see it as an extended holiday for him.

Exactly! You can't class yourself as the best at something until you have PROVEN yourself at the TOP LEVEL.

[greenred]

O`Neill has a better record then Wenger when he joined Arsenal and Ferguson when he joined ManU.They didnt "prove" themselves until they got the chance at a big club.Thats the big flaw in your argument Owzat.The "proven" managers wont come to Liverpool.They are quite happy at Arsenal and Man U.

[greenred]

But for me he still hasen't acheived anything to put him in the top bracket, his achievements at Celtic are good but I still see it as an extended holiday for him.

That is a terribly condescending attitude toward a great club like Celtic.The level of expectation and pressure at that club is massive.Do you think they were on holiday when they knocked us out of Europe last season?Have you ever been to Parkhead?The atmosphere takes your breath away.I can assure you that nobody there(manager or players)consider themselves on holiday.Dalglish and Barnes couldnt take the pressure of the place.Yet O`Neill has produced a team that would play Liverpool off the park,while spending a pittance.To me that PROVES he is ready for the Liverpool job.

[JBG]

Owzat: what does MON have to do to convince you?

As Greenred said, you take a bit of a condescending attitude towards Scottish football.

Celtic went through lorry loads of managers in the 1990s in an attmept to break the Rangers dominance and only one of them (briefly) succeded, Wim Jansen.

Plenty of guys failed, even Josef Venglos, Liam Brady, John Barnes and Kenny Dalglish.

Rangers were miles ahead of Celtic when O' Neill took over and he turned things around in less than a year.

Since then he has done ok in the Champions league and very well in the last 2 seasons in the UEFA Cup.

I'm not saying he has made history or won the best trophies going, but he has done as well as anybody possibly could at Celtic and he hasn't put a foot wrong.

I can't think of anybody else realistically available that has done better than O' Neill, I mean, the only fellows available are the likes of John Toshak, Giovanni Trappatoni, Guus Hiddink etc but they are guys coming to the end of their careers.

Guys like Heitzfeld, Coppello etc are out of our league at the moment.

Some people have mentioned Sam Allyderdyce, Alan Curbishley and Gordon Strachen but MON has achieved more than them.

My candidates for the Pool hot seat are Martin O' Neill, Jose Mourinho, Ronald Koeman and Felix Magath, maybe Claus Topmuller as an outside bet.

All of the foreigners would be a gamble as they haven't played or worked in England before, which puts O' Neill out ahead by a nose.

I challenge anyone to convince me of a better candidate than O' Neill, a guy we could realistically hope to attract.

[Badmao1]

I can't see Sam Allyderdyce getting the job, not to say he's not good enough but would surely be behind MON.

What about Micky Adams and Alex McLeish?

[JBG]

Mickey Adams aint bad but the Liverpool job is still miles too early for him.

I always liked McLeish, although his Rangers team has struggled this year.

[ynwa]

o'neil wont come to liverpool he might have the man u manger or england job

[Cool Hand Luke]

But for me he still hasen't acheived anything to put him in the top bracket, his achievements at Celtic are good but I still see it as an extended holiday for him.

That is a terribly condescending attitude toward a great club like Celtic.The level of expectation and pressure at that club is massive.Do you think they were on holiday when they knocked us out of Europe last season?Have you ever been to Parkhead?The atmosphere takes your breath away.I can assure you that nobody there(manager or players)consider themselves on holiday.Dalglish and Barnes couldnt take the pressure of the place.Yet O`Neill has produced a team that would play Liverpool off the park,while spending a pittance.To me that PROVES he is ready for the Liverpool job.

I have been to Parkhead, and enjoyed the electric atmosphere.

My point is the are two teams in the SPL, the others would struggle in the nationwide.

Rangers lost so many key players over the summer,(Amorouso,Numan,Ferguson,Macan,etc.).

MON is a good manager, what I am saying is that he hasen't been tested at the top level. He should come to a real league and manage a real club.

[Owzat]

I can't see Sam Allyderdyce getting the job, not to say he's not good enough but would surely be behind MON.

What about Micky Adams and Alex McLeish?

I see O'Neill as only slightly better qualified for the job than those.

For all those people arguing with me

1) I have never said O'Neill is definitely not good enough for the job, just that he has never achieved anything to match his reputation

2) You can come up with all the "evidence" you like, the evidence that matters is two mickey mouse cups, a stroll in the park in Scotland and four slightly better than average top ten finishes in the Premiership. He woudn't come even close to any of the great managers on that record alone, arguments that IF he went to a top English club then he would enter that bracket is SPECULATION.


I would p1ss myself laughing if anyone suggested he should be considered alongside the names of Shankly, Paisley, Busby and Ferguson. I would probably p1ss myself laughing if you mention him along with the likes of Brian Clough and Bobby Robson. He is in the bracket with the likes of Kinnear, Redknapp and Curbishley IN MY OPINION, any speculation by anyone would not convince me otherwise

[Owzat]

Thats the big flaw in your argument Owzat.The "proven" managers wont come to Liverpool.They are quite happy at Arsenal and Man U.

That isn't part of the argument, I have stated QUITE CORRECTLY that O'Neill's achievements to date do not match his reputation. He may or may not succeed at Anfield, there is nothing in his record to suggest he will BUT that doesn't mean who wouldn't

There are more "proven" managers than just the top two in England, that is a ridiculous statement