Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

Yep spot on Bob - think we just need to find that missing creative link to go with the players we already have got - no need for major surgery or major players leaving or going - get rid of some deadwood ie pennant and it seems voronin and buy just that one little creative gem who can unlock tight defences when teams park the bus and we can hopefully see the next big step taken towards prem winning challenges . I know people dont think we have improved well beating both chelsea and man utd home and away is a massive improvement for me while also only being 4 points off the top coming to the end of march is another improvement . Rome wasnt built in a day as they say .

So we need more creativity than Gerrard and Torres, where exactly would you put this creative player then? Are you thinking about replacing Kuyt perhaps, or Aurelio, or Arbelola or Riera, surely not Mascha?

In my opinion we are a damned good team WHEN  Rafa lets them play but for soem fecking bizare reasons he either can't or won't get them properly set up mentally and tactically for games against the like of Stoke. He's had 5 years to figure out how to beat these crappy teams and he's still clueless.

I love the wins aginst the big boys as much as the next fan but untill Rafa or another manager can get usconsistently beating the likes of Stoke then we'll never winthe league.

Bizarre post, this, Heimdall.  It's almost as though you're suggesting we not look to bring in another creative player to complement Gerrard and Torres and/or to stand in for one when they are injured etc.

Sure, I think Rafa could stand to revise the formula when it comes to facing the park-the-bussers but I also know that we need more quality attacking players in the squad to ensure that we progress.  After all, as I've said elsewhere, we can't just hope and pray that Torres and Gerrard stay fit and in fine form all season.

As for who to get in and in place of whom, I would like to see us leave the Torres-Gerrard tandem alone and concentrate on the wings.  That either means improving on Riera, Kuyt or both.  Both are quality players that bring a lot to the team but I do think both can be improved upon.  Kuyt, in particular, is a bit surplus to requirements against the park-the-bussers, where guile is preferred to indefatigability.  Bringing in some quality wide players who can operate in tight spaces, play deft 1 touch football and chip in with some goals is a must.  Some will say that we need to find some magical striker/winger who is quality, can play wide with Torres and Gerrard and who can also replace Torres when he's injured while preserving the system.  If this player exists I'd love to know who it is!  I think a more realistic goal is to find the winger or wingers I spoke of and call upon Kuyt to do a job up top in the event that Torres goes down with (what we hope will be only minor) injuries.  Don't ask me to name names, though--I'm cr.ap at the fantasy football stuff!

Spot on Bob, the only other alternative for me is to bring in a more creative and attacking midfield player. I still feel that against "lesser opposition" playing two defensive midfielders could be a little overkill. Bring in Diego for example and he could play either as a midfielder (against the "lesser sides") or as a replacement for Gerrard as second striker (when Gerrard is injured or needs a rest). Obviously Diego is just an example, so don't get too fixed on whether Diego is good enough or is prem proven etc etc 

[Bad Bob]

Spot on Bob, the only other alternative for me is to bring in a more creative and attacking midfield player. I still feel that against "lesser opposition" playing two defensive midfielders could be a little overkill. Bring in Diego for example and he could play either as a midfielder (against the "lesser sides") or as a replacement for Gerrard as second striker (when Gerrard is injured or needs a rest). Obviously Diego is just an example, so don't get too fixed on whether Diego is good enough or is prem proven etc etc 

And that's the other route we can go, mate.  What seems to be clear is that we play at least 1 too many grafters against the park-the-bussers.  Do we really need Kuyt and Masch playing against the likes of Fulham, for instance?  We need someone in that can give us more attacking verve.  Preferably down the flank, IMO, to keep the Gerrard-Torres partnership intact and to help stretch defenses and open up spaces.

[dunc09]

have you man u in semis no thats the blue half isnt it

[account deleted by request]

Spot on Bob, the only other alternative for me is to bring in a more creative and attacking midfield player. I still feel that against "lesser opposition" playing two defensive midfielders could be a little overkill. Bring in Diego for example and he could play either as a midfielder (against the "lesser sides") or as a replacement for Gerrard as second striker (when Gerrard is injured or needs a rest). Obviously Diego is just an example, so don't get too fixed on whether Diego is good enough or is prem proven etc etc 

And that's the other route we can go, mate.  What seems to be clear is that we play at least 1 too many grafters against the park-the-bussers.  Do we really need Kuyt and Masch playing against the likes of Fulham, for instance?  We need someone in that can give us more attacking verve.  Preferably down the flank, IMO, to keep the Gerrard-Torres partnership intact and to help stretch defenses and open up spaces.

To me its not necessarily Masch that would lose out mate, as maybe if we played a much more attacking CM we might need the security of Masch at the back. The point though as we both agree, is we would have attacking creative options.

Throw in a top class winger, for example Ribery(who can also play striker when needed ) and we have almost got a perfect world mate  (All we need now is a fullback that can also keep goal )

[dunc09]

all you need is 11 good players

[tubby]

Nice article. I always had belief in Rafa.

wait a sec each year we say how sh.it chav fans are then one of them writes that and you all rdy to pull down ya pants and take one for the team ?

You call the antis fickle ?

i don't think anyone means that they are going start thinking chav fans are great!! just that this one makes a little sense in what he is saying. :;)

not fickle

Spot on Graham - nothing fickle about agreeing with a fan from another club - especially when he makes sense and the article is well thought out with a lot of truths in it .

Yeah but its more a fergie slaging off then a wow rafa you are great I think and its easy for us to agree on that cos fegie is a tw.at. 

But ok I take ya point on it I do agree with most of it and really was just playing devils advocate really .

Think I just woke up on wrong side of bed today I gave up fags on sunday into my 4th day now. 

Get of your high horse. What because he is a Chelsea fan his opinion isnt valid a t all? I was merley agreeing with the original post.

[dunc09]

arguing its great on here

[taff]

So we need more creativity than Gerrard and Torres, where exactly would you put this creative player then? Are you thinking about replacing Kuyt perhaps, or Aurelio, or Arbelola or Riera, surely not Mascha?

In my opinion we are a damned good team WHEN  Rafa lets them play but for soem fecking bizare reasons he either can't or won't get them properly set up mentally and tactically for games against the like of Stoke. He's had 5 years to figure out how to beat these crappy teams and he's still clueless.

I love the wins aginst the big boys as much as the next fan but untill Rafa or another manager can get usconsistently beating the likes of Stoke then we'll never winthe league.

Stoke et al are premiership teams with very good very fit players we have to earn the right to beat them, there is no mathematical formula for beating teams below us.  The players have been asked recently why dont you do that every week, and their replies are its not that easy etc.  Take your lead from them, they want to do it but it doesnt work out that way all the time.

As for Rafa, if anybody thinks he doesnt want to win every game then they are in need of help or are on a wind up.  My take on it is this, he is brave and principled and has given us a week that not many if any managers in the world would have given us.  Brave for the rant and dignified in response to the abuse he has received from the same people in the media who know have him down as a genius.  Brave for the Keane decision, he must have known he would get stick but did what he thought was the best decsion for the club.  Getting us to beat teams in an emphatic way gets me excited about the potential of this team as I happily concede that we havent played well at times this season but I also think that its coming together slowly but definitely coming together.

I know the champions league is seen as easy by some but pundits and ex pros etc still see it as a premier event to win and we are regular contenders, not one off and lucky if Im honest as in 2005 but now up there with the best in europe.  We havent shown that in the league in a consistent way but we do show glimpses of what we could be.

Lucas destroyed Ronaldo last Saturday.  Yes LUCAS,  all the papers had his work in stopping him coming inside as a big reason we won.  Ronaldo went missing because of this and we broke their game plan, Torres BULLIED Vidic and Ferdinand.  This is what he is working towards, knowledge of opponents strategy and weaknesses and a team orientated disciplined aproach to winning.  I love the guy for giving us hope.  I have shouted and sang for us in away games when Ruddock and Dicks were in the team and Rafa excites me more than anyone since Kenny, from cracking up to nearly cracking the formula.  That is why Heimdell that people get upset as although we are frustrated and flabbergasted at times we can also see what the future could be like with this guy and if he gets it right its trophy bonanza time.

Media against him, owners against him, some fans against him, accused of cracking up and he humiliates the great Fergie in front of the world then tells everybody how he did it.

HE WHO LAUGHS LAST LAUGHS THE LONGEST

[dunc09]

he didnt humiliate fergie he mad himself look an idiot but then again he is

[Sabre]

HE WHO LAUGHS LAST LAUGHS THE LONGEST

He who laughs last laughs twice we say here. Although the inmediate answer is "he who laughs last is normally dumber"


Anyhow, I agree most of what you say Taff.

On the opinion of the Chelsea fan, he probably has his inner consume reasons to write that. I'd rather read some praises from some fellow fans that do not praise Rafa often than 20 praises of the enemy.

[taff]

he didnt humiliate fergie he mad himself look an idiot but then again he is

Duncan Ferguson 

[dunc09]

whos a clever boy   not you

[Effes]

So we need more creativity than Gerrard and Torres, where exactly would you put this creative player then? Are you thinking about replacing Kuyt perhaps, or Aurelio, or Arbelola or Riera, surely not Mascha?

In my opinion we are a damned good team WHEN  Rafa lets them play but for soem fecking bizare reasons he either can't or won't get them properly set up mentally and tactically for games against the like of Stoke. He's had 5 years to figure out how to beat these crappy teams and he's still clueless.

I love the wins aginst the big boys as much as the next fan but untill Rafa or another manager can get usconsistently beating the likes of Stoke then we'll never winthe league.

Stoke et al are premiership teams with very good very fit players we have to earn the right to beat them, there is no mathematical formula for beating teams below us.  The players have been asked recently why dont you do that every week, and their replies are its not that easy etc.  Take your lead from them, they want to do it but it doesnt work out that way all the time.

As for Rafa, if anybody thinks he doesnt want to win every game then they are in need of help or are on a wind up.  My take on it is this, he is brave and principled and has given us a week that not many if any managers in the world would have given us.  Brave for the rant and dignified in response to the abuse he has received from the same people in the media who know have him down as a genius.  Brave for the Keane decision, he must have known he would get stick but did what he thought was the best decsion for the club.  Getting us to beat teams in an emphatic way gets me excited about the potential of this team as I happily concede that we havent played well at times this season but I also think that its coming together slowly but definitely coming together.

I know the champions league is seen as easy by some but pundits and ex pros etc still see it as a premier event to win and we are regular contenders, not one off and lucky if Im honest as in 2005 but now up there with the best in europe.  We havent shown that in the league in a consistent way but we do show glimpses of what we could be.

Lucas destroyed Ronaldo last Saturday.  Yes LUCAS,  all the papers had his work in stopping him coming inside as a big reason we won.  Ronaldo went missing because of this and we broke their game plan, Torres BULLIED Vidic and Ferdinand.  This is what he is working towards, knowledge of opponents strategy and weaknesses and a team orientated disciplined aproach to winning.  I love the guy for giving us hope.  I have shouted and sang for us in away games when Ruddock and Dicks were in the team and Rafa excites me more than anyone since Kenny, from cracking up to nearly cracking the formula.  That is why Heimdell that people get upset as although we are frustrated and flabbergasted at times we can also see what the future could be like with this guy and if he gets it right its trophy bonanza time.

Media against him, owners against him, some fans against him, accused of cracking up and he humiliates the great Fergie in front of the world then tells everybody how he did it.

HE WHO LAUGHS LAST LAUGHS THE LONGEST

Good post Taff.

[GYBS]

Extract from Giles Smith's column over at the cfc website:


It was an encouraging weekend altogether, what with the return of Essien and Ricardo Carvalho, and what with Liverpool consolidating third place with that extremely helpful, and altogether unpredicted victory at Old Trafford.
Liverpool's league season is effectively over, but they're still putting a bit of effort in, in the spirit of the game, and all credit to them for that.

Obviously that match was a tough call for Chelsea supporters because clearly the best outcome, from our point of view, involved United surrendering the maximum number of points. At the same time, rooting for Liverpool in any circumstances is something which, to say the least, does not come instinctively to those of us from round these parts.

There's a famous adage which says you should try everything that life offers once, except incest and Morris Dancing. And generally, over the years, I've mentally added 'rooting for Liverpool' to that short list.

On this occasion, though, it was without question the right thing to do. One just had to bite the bullet and accept it. The potentially positive knock-on effect, surely, is in the way the Liverpool result reduces Manchester United's much-hyped 'undefeatability'.

Other teams will look at the 1-4 scoreline and think to themselves, 'If a team as disorganised and unpersuasive as Liverpool can go there and score four times, then why can't we?'

In other words, sides might actually take United on from now on, instead of buying the hype and throwing their hands up in terror, like Arsène Wenger,  at the supposed enormity of the task.

In brief, our chances of stealing the title before this weekend were remote, and remain remote. But they are slightly less remote, thanks to Liverpool and the happy precedent they have set. So we should be grateful, much though it goes against the grain.

On the subject of Liverpool, the draw for the quarter- and semi-final stages of the Champions League takes place in Geneva this Friday, when the arrangements are due to be put in place officially for the next in our series of semi-final meetings with the Anfield club.

I'd say 'put it in your diary,' but you've probably had it in there since the day your diary arrived. Indeed, it was almost certainly the first thing you wrote in it, after you unwrapped it at Christmas, followed by the birthdays of your loved ones. Some things in life are certain: death, taxes, birthdays and unwanted semi-finals of the Champions League against Liverpool.

[cpc4eva]

Rafa never used to be able to do it against the big boys in the prem - we were constantly getting beaten by both chelsea and man utd , this season he has improved that area so its another big step and hopefully soon he can take the next step and turn draws into wins against teams that park the bus and then maybe we can talk about winning the prem - even thou i still believe we have a chance this season .

your absolutley right.....

rafa just has to come up with tactics to beat teams that park the bus....

wingers
wingers
wingers

the likes of heighway who take the ball all the way to the box / corner spot and cross in to more than one option up front to put the ball in the back of the net