Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

It's a difficult scenario for Benitez at the moment and some of what I say you may disagree with but I'll say them anyway.

It must be born in mind that all managers sign players who fail to make the impact expected, be they Houllier, Wenger, Ferguson or even Mourinho, so in that respect it is completely unrealistic to expect all of Benitez' signings to be exceptional.

Much was expected of Garcia, particularly as he was part of an exceptional Barcelona squad. Initially he looked promising, but has lapsed in to an unacceptable level of medocrity of late. Hard to put the finger on why, he clearly has skill but is failing to perform at fundamental basic levels at the moment. He may turn it round, he may not.

Alonso has been successful. Josemi and Nunez bought for very little have, as yet returned very little. Pellegrino is a stop gap measure and Morientes should have enough in is game to be a success.

Then there is the question of whether it is best to import players our buy domestic. With a limited budget, Benitez has admitted that players based overseas are more attractive because Premiership based players are generally excessively priced (although this isn't always the case). It'll be interesting to see who Benitez makes as his first domestic signing.

Personally I feel that people are getting too hung up on the need for large scale investment to bankrole radical changes to our player roster. Benitez has changed the playing system, but it would also be fair to raise an eyebrow at the fact that, individually, very few players have improved significantly under Benitez. More importantly, the team as a cohesive unit has failed to find the sort of consistent level of performance and togetherness that teams of supposed lesser ability seem to find regularly.

Now, I don't mean to be harsh on Benitez, because despite some worrying issues, I do rate him as a very talented manager who is generally moving the club in the right direction, but that does not absolve him from "constructive criticism".

To be fair, this is Benitez first season in England as a manager, and I think at times he has shown he has not adapted to the rigeurs of the English domestic challenge, nor has his coaching staff.

For teams in England to be successful, they must use width effectively, an area we have significantly failed to develop in. All the talk is of keepers, central defenders and strikers, but it's quality wide men we need to provide the attacking verve missing from our play.

I also have grave concerns about the mental state of our captain. I believe his mind is elsewhere and has been all season. Exceptional talent that he is, there is a rumour that he han't gotten over the summer antics.

My concerns surfaced around the Olympiakos game. His comments about needing to be challenging were a distraction and while he prove to be the hero of the night, I can't help but feel lucky that his petulance didn't have him removed from the pitch long before he scored his wonder goal.

More instructive I felt, was his post-match comments about believing we had blown it and weren't going to make it through until much later on in the game. My point is if Gerrard doesn't have the belief in the team that it will succeed at all times, in the same unswerving way that say Keane has always had for Man Ure, then that feeds it's way in the mentality of all the other players.

Funnily enough, I happen to think that if Gerrrad does depart in the summer we may come out of it better (in much the same way Everton have with Rooney's departure). Gerrard's desire to win is important but I contuinure to be concerned with his impact on the team as a whole. The unthinkable has now become thinkable.

Gordon Strachan wrote a wonderful article about Gerrard a few months back stating he was the most complete player he has ever seen. Herein lies the problem.

As good as he is, he is in danger of becoming the cliched jack of all trades and master of none. Better than his peers in most areas of the game, he fails to better them in individual key areas. Gerrrad doesn't dictate the pace of a game like Vieira, can't grab a game by the scruff of the neck and close it down like Keane (witness him being outplayed by Keane on Saturday) and doesn't offer the atacking potency of a Scholes.

Moreover, Gerrard, unlike say Alonso, doesn't appear to have developed the abilty to get players around him lift their game to new heights. Gerrrad has been seen to carry Liverpool on occassion, with an outstanding performance by him gaining results, not an outstanding performance by him prompting others. In a sense when Gerrard ticks, worryingly it doesn't mean the team ticks which is worrying.

The player Gerrrad is most commonly compared to in recent history is Bryan Robson. The difference being, that while he was captain courageous at Man Ure while they were underperforming, I don't recall him ever stating that he was leaving if Man Ure didn't start winning the League..

There is a sense, that despite his obvious love for the club, Gerrard may be part of the malaise that has set in, preferring to seek pastures new than concentrating hard on the task in hand.. namely helping the players round him reach new heights.

Gerrard hasn't added the spark that makes the team perform at a higher level.

Harsh... but a necessary comment I feel.

Selling Gerrard and gaining the sub 30% investment that Moores & Parry alledgedly favour may actually be enough to give us the finance to improve the team as a whole.

It could be argued that a few astute purchaces and a bit of luck would even negate the need for either... let alone a full takeover.

I remain to be convinced that having the clout to buy left right and centre wouldn't actually just add a layer of complexity to the whole situation, what with expectations raised to titanic proportions and the possibility of ego's running wild in the dresing room.

In football, confidence is everything, and we don't have it. If we don't believe we can beat any team, at the very least on our day, and if we don't have players that believe they can go to Burnley without Gerrrad and win then an uncomfortable malaise has set in.

Teams of supposed limited ability have proven time and time again that they can suceed with togetherness, passion and committment combined with belief. These are areas that managers can not teach. They may try and instill the right mentality, but that's not easy.

If our captain is unsure about the future and unsure about the teams ability, then to an extent, it doesn't matter what players arrive (unless you build a complete new team from scratch and accept the length of time and the risks involved in doing that).

Ultimately, it could be argued we have not progresed significantly since the summer. Benitez has not, as yet, taken us through the thresehold of when we go from becoming an also-ran to a challenger. Also are we still in a critical phase of our development. We have been in this critical phase for years with all the changes to playing and coaching staff not as yet expediting the development needed. More radical change may not bring the new dawn quickly either.

Injuries will always occur, some new players will always fail to find their feet and players will always encounter periods of poor form, but the underlying reasons for our underperformance still remain.

Gerrard hasn't provided the spark to overcome it and despite showing promise, neither, as yet, has Benitez. I like him as a manager and I rate him... but it's going to take time for hard evidence to materialise as to whether he'll be ultimately successful or not.

It's not that the future looks bleak, it's just that it looks much the same as it always has in recent times.. the bonfire of success still waiting for the right spark to start the fire.

[109-1105722616]

good one, not much i can say becuase you raised some good points in the article. i think everybody is still angry about the game last night and the game angainst the scum, but we need to calm down and look at things properly. we are making progress we were just ****** last night and rafa and all the players got it wrong

[stmichael]

The point about Gerrard is that his singular need at times to try and do everything throws the other 'cogs' of the engine visibly out of sync..

If shanks vision of the game was so pure in it's simplicity .. namely that the game was about passing and moving - to pass the ball , and moving to receive the ball then SG's desire to 'carry the ball' at times limits the 'team' from participation!

[jymbojetset]

If shanks vision of the game was so pure in it's simplicity .. namely that the game was about passing and moving - to pass the ball , and moving to receive the ball then SG's desire to 'carry the ball' at times limits the 'team' from participation!

Exactly - pass the ball to the "nearest" guy in red, doesn't have to be 60 yards away all the time.

I don't think SG would still be at Anfield under shanks as he always believed the club to be bigger than the individual (don't think he would have lasted under kenny either funny enough).

The original point about Everton improving withour Rooney is valid to SG. Whenever he plays, you would assume from reading the press that he was the only one who played for Liverpool  - how must the rest of the players feel?

Sounds like a knocking SG post here - its not, but he should remember that Liverpool FC will be arround and remembered long after he has gone, there are very few individuals who make their mark (eg shanks and kenny, fergie at Manu).

[109-1105722616]

i think the reliance upon stevie g is too much, the rest of the team look lost when he doesnt raise his game

[The_Rock]

Saint Mick,

Its great that that u can write such a long essay at this fcuked up week..... Well done m8. I just skimed thru it (not in mood to read anything more than 10 lines).

As you can guess, defeat to scums & burnley has really spoilt my whole week...... 

[bigmick]

I read it and thought it a superb piece of work, nice one st Mick. Like JBG, you are slightly more 'realistic' about Benitez than me, I think he's doing a fantastic job. That said, we're a country mile away from bieng a championship winning team at the moment.
On the Gerrard front, I agree he seems out of control for long periods of matches at the moment. A five minute period of strolling around is followed by a high-octane "gimme the ball-gimme the ball" ten minute self-combustion. He too often attempts the very difficult without making any concession to a risk/reward ratio (its just a long-winded way of saying I don't like the way he smashes the ball a speculative 70 yards out to the opposite winger every couple of minutes. It looks good but the reward is actually not worth the risk as he actually loses posession about 30% of the time.) If he was playing someone in on goal fair enough, but not to just switch the play. He is of course capable of stunning passing but needs to be much more selective.

[maximus]

Saint Mick,

Its great that that u can write such a long essay at this fcuked up week..... Well done m8. I just skimed thru it (not in mood to read anything more than 10 lines).

As you can guess, defeat to scums & burnley has really spoilt my whole week...... 

Yes...............Paul Tomkins sends his regards 

[A.B.]

Gerrard is frustrating in important fixtures, he has played poorely in games where we needed the points the most. He's a good footballer but he makes poor desicions on the pitch and off the pitch during important times. i.e. comments before and after our fixture with Olympiakos,etc..

If he leaves we could end up playing better, only time will tell. When he was injured Alonso and Hamann got the job done in the midfield and we weren't really that poor as some had thought we would had been

[JBG]

Excellent post StMichael, good to see you back posting here regularly again. 

I like Benitez and I think the club made a good choice as his pedigree in Spain was excellent and he and Mourinho were probably the two most sought after talents in Europe last summer.

I think he has a lot of credentials to bring us close to where we want to be, but objectiuvely, there is no guarantee that Benitez would succeed, in the same way there would be no guarantee that Alex Ferguson would sort us out if he became manager here.

Benitez has done generally well, but I think the initial hype has now died down and privately all supporters and the club itself are beginning to feel a little disapointed in how things are turning out this season. I knew things weren't going to be easy but I honestly didn't think we'd have lost 12 games in total by mid January. I think most rational and thinking fans and observers knew we hadn't a hope of winning the league this year, but a lot of us expected to put a lot of pressure on the top 3 and do well in the Champions League. So far we have stumbled through the CL (although we have still progressed, which is very good) but our league form is not a whole lot different from last year. I think we will finish in 4th place as it is between us, Everton and Middlesboro now (and I think Newcastle will make a late surge), and we'll outlast the others, but the way things are panning out, we are looking at another 30 points behind the eventual winners.

Our style of football has improved, but there are still some startling problems, such as our cursed luck/ill judgment in the transfer market. Improvement is slow, but I think next year will be a good year for us. By good I don't mean we'll win anything, but we will start doing things right, of that I'm sure.

As for Gerrard, the guy can be tremendous, but he's got some serious flaws in his game, and his attitude and comments to the press are not becoming of a Liverpool captain.

[109-1105722616]

gerrard is ****** me off witht he rubbsih he spouts tot he press and the way he holds the club to ransom

i know he is brilliant but i think that he is setting himself up for a big fall, remember that michael owen fella used to play for us

[Fowler_E7]

Personally i just want to get this season over and done with, as it is going exactly as i expected it would, stop and start. It's the same with most clubs who have a new manager. The team and tactics have changed a lot in the past year (for the better) and it is obviously gonna take while for the team to settle and perform consistently.

So i say forget this season, lets just get fourth place. The real test of our progress will be next season, and i beleive we will be in a much better position this time next year

[andy_g]

there is no doubt that next season will be an improvement on this one. benitez will have worked with the squad more, i imagine we'll have a couple more decent signings, the squad should be back to full strength.

but to just dismiss this season as pretty much over is rubbish. while anyone will admit that 1st or 2nd in the league are beyond us there is no reason why we shouldn't aim for third. we should also go all out to win the league cup AND get to the next stage of the CL. plenty to play for. we're only just over half-way through remember. another run of 3 or 4 wins will change the tune of a number of doubters and killjoys.

[hawkmoon269]

there is no doubt that next season will be an improvement on this one. benitez will have worked with the squad more, i imagine we'll have a couple more decent signings, the squad should be back to full strength.

but to just dismiss this season as pretty much over is rubbish. while anyone will admit that 1st or 2nd in the league are beyond us there is no reason why we shouldn't aim for third. we should also go all out to win the league cup AND get to the next stage of the CL. plenty to play for. we're only just over half-way through remember. another run of 3 or 4 wins will change the tune of a number of doubters and killjoys.

I think alot of players need to look at themselves, and change their attitudes, and start giving 100% everytime they pull on a Liverpool shirt.  For one, SG, seems to have lost his concentration.  He is not the same player he was 12 months ago.

[andy_g]

gerrard has played most of the games so far this season as well as, if not better than, last season. we all know he had a poor game by his and our standards against the mancs, and maybe he tries to do too much at times, but he's still right up there with our top performers.